A letter to a friend
Hello everyone, it’s me again.
Yesterday I got an e-mail from an old friend whom I haven’t heard from in a long time.
It was not a very nice e-mail, very aggressive and condescending.
The guy was pretty much accusing me of a bunch of stuff that I had nothing to do with, and making a bunch of other crazy negative claims.
No, I’m not here to ask for advice on how to deal with it or anything like that.
It’s actually about my reply to it. I don’t know where it came from, I just wrote and what came out was pretty interesting.
And I think it highlights one of the main issues people have these days, and the solution to it.
Alright, here it is (translation may not be perfect)
“Hello, buddy. Long time no see.
Is that how you talk to an old friend? To be frank it didn’t sound friendly at all, just hateful.
I’m not glad to hear you’re in such a miserable situation, but I have nothing to do with it. Remember how we haven’t met in like two years and things weren’t this fucked up back then? Hmm?
So I don’t see why you’re blaming me for what’s happened.
It’s strange, you told me several times what a dick I am, but you never explained any so called connection between me and what’s happened. You told me a bunch of times that I owe you, but never gave any reason for that.
You asked me 22 times to apologize, but for what?
I don’t even know what it is I think you have done. I don’t see how our problems with your economy, health, fiancee, social problems, and so on are at all related to me.
But alright, let’s play this game.
I’m sorry that I was working while you were slacking.
I’m sorry that I was eating healthy while you were stuffing down junk food.
I’m sorry that I gave my body a chance to recover while you were using bullshit “medicine” to hide your symptoms.
I’m sorry that I was working out while you were watching tv.
I’m sorry that I was reading informative books while you were reading comics.
I’m sorry that I was working on my social tree while you were browsing stumbleupon.
I’m so sorry that I was out there dating girls while you were home jacking off.
I’m so sorry that I saved my money while you wasted yours on weed and booze.
I’m so sorry that I got up at 7 every morning while you slept in as late as you could.
I’m so sorry that I went to meditate with monks while you played videogames.
I’m so sorry that I learned meditation and martial arts while you learned a bunch of useless stuff.
I’m so sorry that I pumped all my time and money into making my own business while you worked a shitty dayjob and spent the money on worthless entertainment.
I’m so sorry that I thought about philosophy while you thought about stupid stoner bullshit.
I’m very sorry that you always did as little as you could get away with, instead of doing your best.
I’m very sorry that you always doubted yourself instead of thinking straight.
I’m very sorry that you always took the easy way out and always looked for instant gratification.
I’m very sorry that you just sat there doing nothing while other guys took the girls that you wanted.
I’m very sorry that you settled for some mean, fat, dumb bitch who ended up fucking you over.
I’m very sorry that you let envy and blame games run your life.
I’m very sorry that you always looked for support and validation and never tried standing on your own two legs.
I’m very sorry that you “couldn’t” stay sober enough to deal with your problems.
I’m sorry that your “big plans” were deluded and don’t fucking work, and that you refused to listen when people explained this.
I’m sorry that you lost your friends because they couldn’t stand your negativity.
I’m sorry that She CHOSE me and not you.
I’m sorry that your friend overdosed and that you can’t get over it.
I’m sorry that the world doesn’t work the way your deluded mind thinks it does.
I’m sorry that human biology isn’t fond of the poisons you fill yourself with.
I’m sorry that the world doesn’t recognize your greatness, whatever that may be.
Most of all, I’m so fucking sorry that I got myself out of the dirt while you decided to stay there. And I’m so sorry that you rejected all my offers to help you.
I’m “better off” than you for a reason. I worked fucking hard for it, I’ve spent so much time, energy and money on this. I’ve earned it.
There is only one person to blame for your misery, do you know who that is?
It’s you. You chose this. These are the results of your actions.
Just look at my sarcastic apologies, those differences in our actions and habits are what make all the difference.
You have put yourself here, and I warned you about this many many times, I tried helping you a lot but you refused.
When you tell me that I should recruit you because you’re my friend and your tremendous intelligence is a great asset and that I owe it to you… just what the fuck are you talking about?
Friendship means nothing in this game.
Would you hire a friend, that’s never seen a boat and doesn’t even know what a sail is, to build your boat? To sail it? To repair it? You would drown.
Would you bring a friend, that’s never held a weapon or faced fear, into war? Not only would he just be a burden and weigh you down, he would also get himself killed, and probably a bunch of comrades too. And if you survive, you’ll be getting the blame for that.
This is my battleship, and you don’t belong on it. Sorry mate, but that’s just the way things are. There are other things you could do very well, but not this.
You wouldn’t be of any help, and you wouldn’t enjoy it at all. It’s not a place for you.
As for the intelligence, you just said that Manimal is a bunch of morons with idiotic mentalities and imbecile agendas. If that is so, what use would we have of intelligence?
And just what is this intelligence you speak of? Your huge collection of useless trivia? Your knowledge of every comic book character ever? Your grades in useless things like history, maths, and the structure of languages?
By the way, how much time and money did you spend for that? A shitload, right? And where did it get you?
Look what I did, and where it got me.
WHICH WAS THE SMARTER CHOICE?
You’re not as smart as you think you are.
And I don’t owe you anything. I’ve done a lot more for you than you’ve done for me.
But you are my friend, and I wish the best for you. I want to help you, but I can’t help you if you won’t let me.
This is the last time I make this offer. I want nothing in return. But you gotta be willing to work hard and make sacrifices, for yourself, that’s the only way to improve your situation. If I hear any more negativity or excuses from you the deal is terminated.”
That’s where the relevant part ends, the rest is just personal stuff that’s irrelevant to this thread.
So what I mean when I say it’s relevant to this forum is all about the part about BLAME and REJECTING HELP.
That’s the main thing that’s standing in the way for most people who want to reach higher. And since that’s what this site is all about, this is good relevant information.
So let’s discuss these things.
Blame, responsibility, and being receptive to help. The worthlessness of apologies. Getting over your bullshit and working hard. Etc.
What’s your stance on this?
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@cadeus333, It’s never too late to change.
As for no redeeming qualities, I wouldn’t say so. The message was focused on errors, of course it doesn’t give a full representation of who he is.
And besides, I’d say there’s a lot more hope and potential for this guy than most people.
Most people have little to no “redeeming qualities” these days.
I appreciate the support, man.
And it’s going pretty well.
@donjaime23, I have no idea what that means.
@filipek, It seems he took it the way it was intended.
Yeah he’s very ignorant and messed up, but he wasn’t always like that.
It is mostly, if not almost exclusively, a matter of social conditioning. But on the other hand, of course society does not create anything at all on its own, it just amplifies what people feed into it, so human nature is behind it all.
But it should be mostly in the adaptive situational aspect of human nature, it’s a complicated thing with a lot of back and forth, but what matters is that humanity doesn’t have to be like this.
This is the approach that I use in real life as well.
In fact, you can go a lot harder in real life, because there is more than words to it. Lots of subcommunication and “vibe” involved. That’s all lost in written communication. 93% of human communication is non-verbal.
Sure there are some people who think they can see this stuff through text on a forum, but they’re merely projecting their own imagination onto other people. Strawman syndrome, as we saw such a prime example of earlier in this thread.
That, and, people aren’t assuming that everyone’s a dickhead in real life. On the internet people usually do, because a lot of people become total fucktards when they communicate on the web, and many people respond by assuming that anyone who gets a bit “offensive” is one of those fucktards.
That’s not the case in real life. I get great rapport from most people, a lot of people open up really well. And there’s very little drama.
That may also be partially due to culture, as I’m not in the US where it seems the national sport is taking offense.
But mostly it’s in the communication.
The web is a whole nother game.
No one ever wants to hear that they are the ones doing something wrong. That it is their fault. That they are the culprit. everyone wants to be the victim. everyone wants to be right.
I wish that more people could come to terms with that fact. It would open up so much more growth in the world. And the worst part is, no one can help them out. They have to do it themselves, but if they never see that they are the problem, they will never get better.
It seems to me like his friend was lacking some perspective, and manimal just provided him with it in his usually blunt manner. Unless you are his friend or a friend of his friend (ie: some who knows the situation) who are you to say he was wrong for talking to his friend like this? It may have been exactly what was needed to be heard and perhpas has/will do him some good, how can you say? And while I did note emotion in the tone, it seemed more of frustration than of condescension. He made sure every point was highlighted by the sarcastic use of “I’m sorry,” not in a ‘I’m better than you’ manner, but in a ‘this is how it is’ matter-of-fact way.
I’m really worried about myself now. I feel like I am that person in your letter. Basically all those things you apologized for, I feel like I did too. The bad things I mean. Except I don’t really blame anyone else but me. I’ve been lazy and stupid and I know it. I just don’t seem to be able to fix it, and it sucks. Oh well, here’s to ignorance!
@manimal, haha this sounds kinda like the dynamic between my roomate and I, I wonder if we’ll ever end up at this point later on in our lives.
As for the post itself I like it quite a bit. Namely I like the way it shows a comparison of the hard worker vs the slacker at the end of the road (or at later on in the road).
Though I wouldn’t necessarily call the maths useless shit everything else here is pretty spot on.
@manimal, “Poor me boo hoo! What did I do to deserve this? Why didn’t you help me?” some people need a slap in the face. I went on an anxiety chat room to offer some help to people since I’ve pretty much overcome my anxiety In all areas but a few. The responses were exactly like this. The people were acting like children because the answer to their problems was too simple and straight forward to handle. They even started playing the age game, so sad.
very true, we can only speculate from the sidelines, but i think my intrepation is fairly accurate, manimal and i have had looonngg convos in private over all this, also in the threads, i see his approach very clearly
but again, i may only think i do, either way, my opinion is merely that, its a take or leave kinda things
it has everything to do with the thread, you are trying to paint the illusion that what you said to him was for his benefit, that you were ‘so-in-the-right’, the truth though, based on what you actually did, said, your actions, is the opposite.
the end does not justify the mean — you are lying to yourself if you believe this is true, this is a dangerous path to traverse my friend, you will find yourself neck deep at some-point
also, i feel the need to point one last thing out, i’m sry, i am going to use an expression that is often used over the internet, i understand that such slang is probably beneath you, but i feel it encompasses how i feel perfectly,
(( — yumadbro? — ))
hhrrmm? remember what you said to me in the ego thread? well, you said a lot, so here is a refresher,
—- WHY would I want to learn from some random schmo on the internet ….. That’s why you cannot teach me anything, just like the dojo master doesn’t learn from the beginners. I am already a couple steps ahead….. People who just want to think they’re smart/right. People like you. —-
remember, i am just some ‘random schmo on the internet’, you are ahead of me, i only think i am smart/right
so, if you truly feel like i am without wisdom, i have nothing to say, that everything i say is ridiculous, — why then do your actions say otherwise? –
why paragraphs of communication? why the need to pick apart everything i say?
remember, i am just some internet schmo who knows nothing,
why not ignore me like you do a lot of people? why not dismiss me like you do with other people?
(( it is a contradiction that you still feel the need to comment despite me being nothing ))
if what you claim about me is true, this is what you would do,
– you would ignore me –
and you would let
– everyone see for themselves how ridiculous i am –
(( — yumadbro? — ))
hrmm… im not really sure why you thought saying all that was helpful, you are just going to piss him off more, you know this, and when he is mad he will close his ears and not listen because you invoke an emotion if you respond so bluntly, so instead of him hearing you, listening to you, he will only hear the emotion spinning in his head,
seems a lil inefficient if you are trying truly to help him,
it seemed you spent more time belittling him then showing any real concern, real concern would have responded to his rant with indifference, because real concern is not about the emotional response he elicits in you, real concern is seeing past the words, tone, and seeing the core of the individual, and helping that, not feeling the need to smash him because he just attempted to smash you,
i dunno, from an efficiency standpoint, communicating in that manner produces only clogged results, making it inefficient
and i assuming you were trying to help him bc you stated
–But you are my friend, and I wish the best for you. I want to help you, but I can’t help you if you won’t let me. This is the last time I make this offer. I want nothing in return. But you gotta be willing to work hard and make sacrifices, for yourself, that’s the only way to improve your situation. If I hear any more negativity or excuses from you the deal is terminated–
i am not really concerned with what you desire in a companion to be honest, of course what you would want in a companion is what you do, of course, how does this lend to the argument at all other than to cast more –illusions–?
i only offer an opinion, like he does with everyone else, if he can’t handle a differing opinion then he shouldn’t offer his own all the time, he can take or leave what i say,
as for the post, it pained me to see him taking credit for something he didn’t do, he acted like all those things he said to his friend were for his friend’s benefit, he justified attacking and tearing his friend to shreds,
and everyone is here saying, “O, good job manimal, way to tell him”…. no, he shouldnt have told him that, him telling him that reveals he isn’t his friend in the first place, manimal had to ego lash back instead of giving his hurting friend some grace
fuck that, that’s such bullshit, it’s so slimy and disgusting to try and disguise his behavior like he was doing something good
–No, I’m not here to ask for advice on how to deal with it or anything like that. It’s actually about my reply to it–
so basically, you just wanted everyone to see what you said to him, right? so everyone could know how -good- you got him? interesting….
–You know, flooding and trolling are the kind of things that define an idiot, and also gets them banned from forums.–
ooo cool, you are threatening me, i’ll tell you what, lets have Jordan look at our conversation and let him decide, in fact, i’ll let him know there is an issue, thanks for this
@yoinkie, “Isnt a discussion biased if both sides of the opening statements arent presented? Or do you prefer biased discussions, where you start off with just your stated opinions and dont allow your intended audiance to know the full starting story.”
No, it’s not biased, it’s not a discussion of who’s right or who said what.
The full story is right there in the message presented, since all my points were addressing what he said. Yknow, a person with a working sense of logic would understand that “Ok so he talked about this and that and that’s all there’s to it.”
Ever watched a movie that starts with fragmented flashbacks, or a narrator voice saying “This is where my story begins” or something like that?
According to your logic, the movie is biased, keeping secrets, or even lying about the backstory.
But in reality, they just left out a bunch of irrelevant shit.
“Even the most egotistical people of all dont specifically say, “HEY listen to this cool story i’m about to tell!” before spewing off all the great things about themselves. Basically your entire “Im sorry im…” added no value to the “discussion” you apparently want to have with us. Their only plausible purpose is for you trying to show off to the reader that you do things, such as “date girls, eat healthy, read informative books, meditate, martial arts. etc etc””
I didnt say anything about a cool story or greatness.
The sarcastic apologies ARE the backbone of the post, they’re the most valuable part of the info.
Their purpose is only to show how actions lead to consequences, and the importance of personal responsibility. And yknow, since these were all examples of the things this guy wanted, that’s just the kind of advice he needs.
Besides, where did I say that those things are cool?
Where did I even say that I am doing those things? I said that I DID them, nothing about what I’m doing or not doing now.
“So what does saying all those things about yourself have ANYTHING to do with that?”
That’s what he was complaining about not having. And the differences in our actions is the essence of the concepts/principles of discussion.
“You could have easily sent your friend un-objective sup points stating, “Go out more, be more healthy, yada yada.””
Right, cuz it’s not like he’s been told that a million times. It’s not like he logically understands it yet doesn’t do it… Are you really that daft?
“But instead, you used specific examples about yourself just so you could show off to him and as a result, make him mad”
He didn’t get mad, he opened up his eyes. Not everyone reacts the same, and I can’t MAKE anyone feel anything.
I wasn’t showing off, dude. I don’t even think that stuff is cool in the first place, only practical.
“See, if you really were all about trying to help others, you would have opted to not use personal examples, either on your end or his”
All the best teachers use personal examples, and address the subject issue DIRECTLY. First of all, because you only truly know your own experience, and second because he as a person is the problem, the very subject of the message.
If you think avoiding the personal stuff makes things more effective, you don’t know the first thing about how this works.
“No, rather just presented debate points about your original post.”
You’d like to think that, wouldn’t you? The fact still remains though, you didn’t address the topic at all. All you did was try to turn it into personal drama. Lowly.
“Didnt think something so simple could be construed as hatred. You are a fragile creature, arent you?”
Right, because it’s not like you’re systematically jumping on certain users… Haha it’s so transparent it’s hard not to laugh.
The human body is quite fragile, dontcha think? So yeah, I guess I am. You want fries with that?
“Either learn how to have a debate, or just dont respond.”
Says the guy who’s made two posts contributing nothing to the discussion, and only tried to derail the thread.
You’re a funny guy, I’ll give you that.
”However I hold no contempt for people, especially not my friends. I didn’t rip at the dude, seriously where do you get all this shit? I just showed him how the “bad things” in his life were just results of HIS CHOICES.”
(Tine): mind boggling, simply mind boggling
sry for lying man, i won’t comment anymore now, dang, just realized i said that earlier as soon as i sent that last Martin Luthor King quote and the question i asked you that you answered incorrectly earlier, you words did show contempt, you were mad because he attacked you, you then attacked him in return and cut him in every way possible, ”in every way possible”, it looks pretty ignorant to stand by and say those were for his benefit,
(( — those words were for your benefit. –))
it looks pretty ignorant to stand by and say you hold him no contempt, your unnecessary words reveal the truth here, there is nothing but contempt in them, there is no need to treat a friend that way, for you to say otherwise…. well, i don’t want to overuse the ‘i’ word, so i will imply it.
Regardless of context, this spoke to me. I don’t feel like responding to the tone of your message, because it’s the content that grabbed me. I’m guilty of some of these things, and I’m using this as a reminder to tweak some of my habits. Thanks, @manimal,
“If you think I was being mean to the dude you’re fucked up. Others see what was going on, but you’re too obsessed with giving the ego some “grace.”
this is completely mind blowing, you truly think that by tearing someone apart, viscously, is the best approach? you think grace is weak? you think a kind but firm approach is inferior?
(( can you not see what this says about who you are? ))
mind blowing, simply mind blowing
you are excusing your initial reaction to someone attacking you and making it appear like you said it for his benefit, if you believe what you said was out of friendship or his betterment, then you have bought into your own ego illusion
and remember, i do not need nor desire your help, therefore you should have no automatic need to respond to someone so confused and ignorant
– I think you are looking in to it too much–
yes, i am looking past the words and observing what-was-done, the action, how manimal spoke to this person he claims to care about and wants to help was completely counterproductive, there is a contradiction between what he saying and what he is doing in the scenario, what he is saying is, “How DARE you blame me for your problems”, but what he is doing (action) though, is something completely different,
consider a close friend, ok, now consider how you would communicate with them if you wanted them to be receptive to what you are saying, you being empathetic here is implied because you have labelled this person, ‘friend’, therefore, of all people, you should give them some grace, cut them some slack
do you tell this friend he married a fat bitch? do you down your friends physical abilities, sexual prowess, do you attack his ego relentless? do you make him appear stupid?
–(manimal) “But you are my friend, and I wish the best for you. I want to help you, but I can’t help you if you won’t let me.This is the last time I make this offer. I want nothing in return. But you gotta be willing to work hard and make sacrifices, for yourself, that’s the only way to improve your situation.–
see here, after bitch slapping his ‘friend’, he covers his tracks and makes it appear like he said it for his benefit
(( — if he said it for his benefit he would not have purposefully provoked him — ))
manimal is smart enough to understand this
can you start to see the illusion?
do you really think what he said to the guy was helpful to him?
@manimal, This is amazing, I agree with you 100% on all of it. Blaming others only causes us to keep doing what harms us because we don’t realize that there is only one person in this world that can make our life better and that is us.
I might print out your list of apologies just to keep in my room to remind me to keep working on improving myself if that’s alright with you.
@tine, I can’t say whether or not it was done out of anger or what Manimals true intentions were. But that is besides the point, we should focus on what he was saying and if we do there is a lot we can take in and apply in our own lives.
Everyone falls into the trap of blaming others for their problems and sometimes you need a wake up call to realize that it is our problem, not theirs. In my life the times that I have really looked at myself and realized that I was being a bitch and blaming my circumstances on others was when someone had the courage to tell me.
So for that reason I like the post that @manimal, created.
@emecom, I’m glad you liked it.
Of course it’s alright, I’m gonna totally steal your idea and do the same thing, thanks for that.
Blame is lame. I don’t remember who said it, but someone said that “to blame = to b lame” and I think that’s a very clever and accurate way of putting it.
Don’t b lame, don’t blame. Should be a slogan.
@healingchime, Troll! Begone or I shall smite you with my mythical thunder anti-troll sword of glory.
Nah just kidding you’re right, I’m frustrated like a three-peckered owl. I hope you put out on the first date cuz I’m bringing the lube.
Haha this is b-low me.
–No, I’m not here to ask for advice on how to deal with it or anything like that. It’s actually about my reply to it–
is what he stated at the beginning, just because what i decided to talk about in his reply was not what he wanted everyone to focus on, does not mean i am off topic