I am just curious on people’s views on abortion. I personally am pro-choice. I believe it is someone’s body and there decision. Either way the U.S. should at least keep things straight, for example if a someone kills a pregnant women they get charged with two accounts of murder but if a pregnant women has an abortion nothing happens. This is a little two-sided in my opinion. I could even go into the sanctity of life, which in a lot of conversations goes hand in hand with abortion, which is all sorts of wrong in my opinion. What are others thoughts on this?
When you consider stuff like this, you question the validity of any moralty concerning abortion. This and and as Eric said, many abortions are due to the pressures of a capitalist system. So being pro-choice or pro-life is a little hypercritical, what choice and what life can this kid be pro for?
There are many reasons women choose to have abortions, some financial or because she has no emotional or financial support. Some are due to the mental status of the woman or genetic tendencies. No one, of course, should be forced to have a baby if you’re raped or the victim of rape/incest. Some are done because the baby is not viable (that is when late-term abortions are done). It’s a personal choice. No amount of arguing will really change this; you believe it is your choice or you don’t.
Unless the embryo can sustain life on its own via homeostasis or whatever the biological term is, then it is not an independent living organism, much less a human. Though I’m not trying to dehumanize embryos or anything like that, quite frankly I’m a little shocked that people are still fervidly pro-life and not willing to respect a woman’s right to privacy and for decision-making on her PERSONAL matters. And as for the “own up to your actions” clause, how many of us have been granted second chances throughout our lives and moved on, no questions asked? We are often too quickly to judge before stopping and thinking about the dire situation some of these women find themselves in: finishing up school, not having a supportive partner, economic instability, etc.) Mind you, an abortion is very traumatic on a woman and it’s not something to be taken lightly, but then again women have been terminating unwanted pregnancies for thousands of years, with or without the approval of patriarchal chauvinists. Abortions are here to stay, and regulating it, which I’m all for (only approve first trimester terminations in non-threatening cases), is the only viable societal solution.
I think it should be more simple than that. So if people decide to have a baby, they should first consider that the child they will take care of, will have to struggle with the same fucking abortion statements from other grown babies. And, no human being who can’t think for themselves would fucking care about other people’s children. :)
Bottom line – idiots are born every day. Love them.
I think my opinion on this was not clear enough. People are making babies and they’re still fucking stupid. That’s better. Devolution. I am strictly with George Carlin’s point of view on this.
People who are against abortions are usually the people you don’t want to fuck in the first place.
I can’t see a taboo here. Maybe vulgarisms and simplicity are too difficult to comprehend for the people who constantly complicate their lives, because of their own boredom, stupidity and choices of little perspective. <- this is hidden with the words fun and love. :)
You can feel free without doing the stupidest things in the world after all. Common fucking sense.
Personally, I don't give a fuck about abortions of incredibly dumb women. The fucked up thing is seeing "16 and pregnant" girls who deny their own existence.
Peace and stupidity.
I always think we should start thinking more about how to take care of the people we’ve already got, rather than worrying about symptomatic controversies.
If you can’t remember your embryo days, I suspect you should stop smashing your opinion around the green house.
If an embryo doesn’t want to be aborted, maybe it should do something about it, like the blacks and the jews did.
Honestly I don’t know where I stand on abortion, but I do think we need better/more birth control. Obviously sex drive isn’t going away, and that’s fine and natural. But I think people need to seriously stop having babies until we at least try to solve the problems we’ve got, otherwise what kind of future are these babies going to have? Endless resource wars, that’s what. Evolution’s going to stop and go back the way it came, until we’re all beating each other over the head with rocks again.
Personally I think abortion is just a form of ageism. Sure, a child in the womb is not fully developed, but guess what? neither are you. At every moment we are growing/changing. Some form of development goes on at every stage of life, sometimes (like during puberty) it’s very obvious and other times (like with an adult) it’s more subtle. Whether we are on our upswing on the way to the prime of our life, or headed down the other side, getting older, there’s no point where we stop changing. So, to end someone’s life because of what stage of their development they’re in… that’s just wrong. There’s no way it can ever be okay.
@laskey, Thanks, Paul. Not that I think abortion is the only answer. But, please, all non-choice men–when you are the ones who have to take birth control, maybe you can make these choices. If you want sex with no responsibilities, you can’t expect to tell the woman what to do with her body.
@epath, I’m not going to lie. I felt bad after I wrote this. People make it complicated themselves. That’s why even topics like this exist. The whole system makes people to be more selfish. Another complication is when single mothers have to struggle with raising their kids of an alcoholic father who promised he’d quit drinking. It’s complicated because sometimes the mother was just a whore and that’s why the daddy was drinking so much in the first place that he didn’t want to raise the child of that awful person. After the raising question had been figured out, THE WOMAN’S BODY COMES TO MIND. A woman can do whatever the fuck she wants with her body, but let’s not forget that she might be doing something with a man’s body first. :)
Don’t ruin kid’s lives with your “complicated” excuses.
@unstoppableobject, I have never heard it described that way, and I love it. Sums it up very nicely.
Why in the hell is this topic dominated by men?? Our choice in this matter ends the moment we ejaculate. Don’t want a woman to have an abortion guys? Don’t put your unprotected penis into a vagina and get her pregnant.
A woman has every right to choose what she does with her body, period. I am all for a debate involving women and nothing but women (would actually really love to see/hear that), but guys should just keep their lofty ideals and judgements to themselves. Worry about where you stick it boys and leave the pregnancy options to the ladies.
@jesusbob, Why do men have a say? Well because birth is the driving force of human life! Men=PART OF HUMAN LIFE. If you wanna be pro-choice it should be fair across the board. The male should choose if he wants to pay child support or not.
Obviously its the woman’s body and therefore she will always have more say ultimately, but if men could choose if they wanted to pay child support or not, or sue the woman if she aborted his child, then maybe people would think about it a little more.
Personally, I think choice starts when you decide to have sex. Everyone knows pregnancy is always a chance.
So I think what we mean here is people are “post-choice” and not, “Pro-choice”
I would like to take a stand on the logic of a situation. History shows us that you can make laws but if a person is either not inclined to follow them due to their own value system or lack thereof, or if a person is motivated to defy the law by fear, reward or even their own value system, they almost definatately will defy it. This means that if a woman is so insistant on not have the baby, she will find a way. This entails a number of alternatives ranging from falling down steps or visiting a back door butcher, non of which are appealing, advisable, safe (for the woman) and most of all, none of which are preventable.
This means that a strong morality can be placed on legal abortion as a certified physician or surgeon can minimalize complications and the fact of medical facilities available in the advent of complications.
@beyond, I don’t think we even need hardcore feminists, just females that want to discuss this. I have only ever heard males speak on the Pro-life side of things and would lvoe to hear a females perspective on pro-life instead of pro-choice.
@hollowinfinity, Are you actually saying that MEN should have a say in what a woman can and cannot do with their body? I 100% agree that a man should have a say in the discussion between partners as to whether or not the abortion should be done, but as far as a discussion regarding to the legal or moral status of abortion, that impedes on a woman’s right to choose what she does with her body, men have no place in such a discussion.
As for a choice regarding child support, a LOT of men worm their way out of it as it is, but to make it up to the guy as to whether he should have to pay or not is completely ridiculous, same with having the ability to sue the female because of a choice she makes regarding her own body.
@jesusbob, you are right that indeed women and what they want in this regard is a huge factor, but all humans need to collaborate on a wide variety of issues, including this, to find objective reason. That women are eerily silent on this issue is understandable, there are a variety of personal factors in this debate that are incredibly sensitive and are not as simple as logic, objective reason, right or wrong, choice or intervention and it is hard to discuss private matters in a public atmosphere. Kind of like a man just coming out with how with how he was sodomized as a kid.