@minch, No, that analogy works for gay marriage much moreso than abortion. You wouldn’t use that analogy for murder would you? If you don’t like murder, don’t kill anyone. See how twisted that is?
@grantgodfrey7, I see what you mean about the metaphor, but I was really just using it to show my views on the subject.
to add to what I said earlier, If you think abortion is bad think about masturbation. abortion kills a zygote which is a few thousand living cells. a single ejaculation is killing approx. 200 million sperm. you do the math.
@minch, Yes, but a zygote is a human cell. Ejaculation kills sperm cells.
@grantgodfrey7, Semen is a made up of human cells as well. And it can arguably be said to have it’s own consciousness since it lives outside the male body, and within the testicles without needing to be latched onto a biological life support system (umbilical cord). Upon leaving the male body semen can live for several days within a vagina. Whereas if a fetus were to have it’s umbilical cord or placenta ruptured/torn it would die before a certain state of development (starting around 27 weeks gestation).
@aliwine, That’s irrelevant. A fetus becomes a human. It is, by nature, a human. Semen is not.
Pro choice. A fetus is not a fully developed human. I would prefer women not have abortions after the heart starts beating, but that is my choice. I know that there are circumstances which may alter decisions. As for men who are anti-abortion: don’t have one. And never, never, never have sex unless you are willing to support the mother and child for the rest of their lives.
@epath, In response to your last comment, I think that’s a double standard. I could say to a woman, never have sex unless you are willing to support the child, but she can just abort it. The man has no say in either situation.
@grantgodfrey7, Skin cells are human cells and millions of those die and fall off each day. now before someone says “oh well a zygote is more special than a skin cell” just realize you are making that decision yourself. nothing about the actual makeup of the zygote is more complex or “better” than the cell.
@minch, You’re misunderstanding me. A zygote becomes a human. It, in essence, is a human just at the lowest developmental stage. A skin cell is not a human cell; it is the skin cell of a human.
@grantgodfrey7, “A skin cell is not a human cell” huh?
anyway. that is your opinion. If you want to believe that some life is more important than other’s go ahead. In my opinion, we are nothing special. about 360,000 people are born each day so we can also assume based on this that 360,000+ POTENTIAL babies are conceived each day. there is nothing special about a zygote. two fertile adults can literally conceive one on demand. an unwanted fetus is the literal definition of a parasite. I believe in abortion until the point of birth but for the ease of things it should be done in the first trimester to avoid unnecessary labor. let’s be real; you know it’s coming. that is all.
I guess I really don’t care, people are allowed to believe whatever they want. I value all human life, I would never support it, but not everyone shares my values. To each their own.
@typhon300, We are not our bodies. Our bodies are our shell and when this shell breaks ‘life’ will find it’s way.
Nobody can seriously decide when life begins. Life just IS and it’s not possible to end it or to start it.
@minch, I smiled and nodded. Feels good.
@minch, A skin cell is not a human cell. Are you seriously not understanding what I’m saying? A skin cell is NOT a human. It is a skin cell that is part of a human. That isn’t my opinion. That is scientific fact.
And yes, the rest of my views are my opinion. I thought that’s what this topic was about?
By your logic, murder is okay because of how many people there are, what does one death matter? I believe a zygote is a human, just at the very beginning of their development. A sperm cell or a skin cell is not a human.
@grantgodfrey7, look out everyone a human
and yes I am validating death by insignificance. The way I see it, all life on earth could end and be humanity wiped from existence and how would it affect the universe? not in the slightest. a single ant has a larger impact on earth ecology then humans as a race do on the universe.
we just aren’t special in any way. we are just matter that thinks it’s alive. when you stop giving a shit, everything seems more wonderful. you appreciate it for what it is, knowing it has no validation or purpose.
@minch, That’s a very nihilistic approach, not saying it’s wrong just saying I disagree.
So if I were to try to harm you, you’d do nothing to stop me?
@grantgodfrey7, That is ok with me. No one should be forced to have a child. If you do not want to get a woman pregnant, do not have sex. Simple as that.
@epath, That’s a complete double standard. If a woman doesn’t want to get pregnant, she shouldn’t have sex. Simple as that.
If the ‘baby’ is not growing inside you, you don’t get to decide. simple.
@senseless, That’s like saying let’s kill poor babies so they don’t have to be poor anymore. Many great people come from terrible beginnings.
A woman has eight children, most of which suffer mental retardation, and has a drunkard husband who comes home and beats her. If she is impregnated again. would you opt for an abortion?
If so, you just killed Beethoven.
@alltoohuman, A two week old baby is not fully developed and still must depend on the mother, though its already been born. Leave it alone and it’s going to die. It must not be ‘human’ then.
And define fully developed. Are we not always changing and developing?
I see no holes in my argument. Please, point them out for me.
@alltoohuman, I was exemplifying what I considered to be bad logic with a very extreme example.
In both of your replies, I’ve noticed you post a lot of extraneous facts that are completely irrelevant to either argument.
@grantgodfrey7, Of course. But we are not talking about women. I was talking about men who are against abortion and who still have unprotected sex with women (or the condom breaks), are not willing to commit, and not willing to take care of the woman and child after it is born. But it is not so simple, is it? People have sexual needs and sometimes that results in unwanted pregnancy. You know, a man can just walk away. A woman can’t. Until men understand that 100%, they should butt out.
@epath, ‘We’ might not be talking about women, but I am. You still don’t recognize the double standard?
A man can’t just walk away. He’s still legally responsible to pay child support if he gets a woman pregnant. Why should a man be tied down by having sex but a woman not?
A man shouldn’t be required to support the baby if the mother isn’t.
i do not respect the views of a ‘pro life’ person unless they are also a vegetarian, i hope you understand what i mean
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