An attempt to prove ‘God’ .. disprove if you like
I have been thinking that it can be done lately… if you want to disprove ‘God’ feel free.. It doesn’t matter to me exactly you think ‘God’ is (please share if you like tho).. but by ‘God’ I am referring to a creator that created us specifically.
My theory is that our existence is one of two things… Random, or rational… there are no other options…
Random being some scientific, mathematical inconsistent anomaly that placed us here on this earth, and able to take care of ourselves, not ‘God’… Rational being ‘God’ placed us here with deliberation (is that a word?)
To me, this reality makes it undeniable.. Our existence is full of rationality, mathematical consistences, analogies and paradoxes, where ‘God’s’ work can be viewed and reflected on ourselves..
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I believe he just got bored with living with eternity and decided to make something to entertain him/her/it-self
We can never understand when he was created because that would mean we would be able to see both sides of infinity, which we obviously do not.
And I have one problem with atheism… According to Atheism, there was nothing… then that nothing exploded and turned into something… and that something condensed and after an incomprehensibly complex turn of events and random laws of physics, we are now sitting here watching this. Just too many things could’ve went wrong with the process… but who knows really…
We’ll never know until we die. and even then, that could just be the end and that is it. :/ No more thinking, feeling, existing. We just become food for meaningless plants and animals and a world, that in the long run, never existed because in infinity, we’re infinitely small and infinitely unimportant. With this ideology, we’re less than the dust in the wind. We are the spark of a match that never even existed.
I see that as too depressing. What is the point in living if after you die, nothing happens? no memories… just nothing… No, that can’t be why we’re here. We should have some role, even if it is this almighty God’s playthings.
Matt, thanks for posting this question :) No one has ever been able to explain First Cause (or in other words, how something came from nothing). There is no logical explanation for a “beginning” of the Universe. Likewise, Science cannot explain the concept of infinity. The ONLY explanation I can rationally reach is that the Universe is infinite and God is the Universe. Namaste and Love and Light All…
Aaron pointed out ‘Conversations with God’ he was summing it up and it was extremely deep but made sense just took a lot of thought.. I hate to read, but you might like it lol..
But I combine science with ‘God’ as his creation.. and I kind of believe he can do whatever he wants with physics.. Random is would be like a scientific glich.. completely inconsistent
I have never been able to even start to get a hold of where did God come from.. but who made him isn’t quite as bad if you think our creator had a creator.. but eventually there has to be a beggining right?? I can’t even get a train of thought going on that one…
Who is ‘God’ is a very interesting question… I have a warped view I can’t lie lol.. But I def believe in diff dimensions and that is a very cool thought to me because it makes the universe tiny.. I like to look for analogies in life, like for example I think of the pupil of your eye as the universe, symetrical and black, expanding and contracting, and the color around it is an even bigger part outside the universe which is kinda like the here after to me.. beyond that.. ??
But I kind of see us as in a bubble.. I’m sure there are other ‘God’s’ that make huge waves full of change and who knows what… I think we are limited to what we can experience and are separated from these arenas or playgrounds because they would just basically blow us away.. I believe there are levels.. I kind of like the part in the bible where it says and so and so lived for 900 years, and his successor did as well and so on… it’s like levels of heavon to me.. They stayed for so many years until they were ready to move on…
I used to get caught up in thinking things like, what if ‘God’ destroyed itself into smaller pieces because it wasn’t happy… like an anomoly in the ‘Matrix’ lol I really liked that movie.. I guess that thinking came from questioning why we didn’t just start happy…. I believe we were created this way for a reason.. it was not a mistake.. but now I kind of think it’s more on the lines of being able to completely loose yourself in change which is a level ‘God’ is on…… then again I wouldn’t know
I’m not going to state all of the different arguments that offer explanations as to why a ‘God’ doesn’t exist, but I will offer one small idea that should at least make some people think. Please bear in mind I’m not out there to try and “convert” people into atheists. I used to be a christian for 18 years, and I can respect your beliefs even if I disagree with them. That being said, here is a small tidbit to argue against God’s existence.
Consider the odds of winning the lottery…With even the highest odds ever, your chances are about 120 million to one. Sounds pretty unachievable right? And yet, people win the lottery all the time. Now lets move on to the odds of life originating on planet earth. It’s been somewhat roughly calculated that those odds are One in a billion…Pretty slim. But there’s more!
I’m assuming if you believe in most any monotheistic God, you also believe (or should believe) we are the only people to inhabit the entire universe. Humans as a species constantly look for meaning in life, and in junction with a God state we are his/her/its only intelligent creation… Now back to the odds…. If the odds of life origination on earth are indeed 1 in 1,000,000,000 then there are still 1,000,000,000 other planets in our entire universe that inhabit life, and a still a hefty hand-full which should harbor intelligent life as well. Just because we haven’t come in contact with any other lifeforms yet, doesn’t mean anything. As far as communication goes, we have yet to leave the outer edges of our galaxy.
So all in all, I believe even though there are tons of things we haven’t learned about the universe, there is still the huge possibility we’re not alone. And one thing that doesn’t impress me about religion is the fact people who have vested beliefs in whatever religion they follow, they still take artistic liberty of warping the “rules”. It’s not right to thump one scripture and deem it to be 100% true or self evident, while other lines of texts can be enforced using more of an elastic clause. God only created life on earth, or he didn’t. Not [insert any number of excuses to avoid biblical conflicts]…
*Whew* sorry for the rant at the end. It’s been a long day.
“Random, or rational… there are no other options…”
“Random being some scientific, mathematical inconsistent anomaly that placed us here on this earth, and able to take care of ourselves, not ‘God’”
There’s your fallacy. Cause and Effect isn’t random. It’s science. We’re here simply because of probability. One in a billion. We’re the one, and there’s a billion other planets out there without life. The conditions were right, life was formed, we evolved through the logical process of natural selection, and here we are. Nothing random about it.
“Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, “This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!” This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it’s still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything’s going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise.”
We adapted perfectly to our world. The world wasn’t made for us.
Contrary to what Matt stated, I feel “God” is nothing but infinite, everlasting, perfect, consciousness and infinite possibilities and matter/everything is created from consciousness.
The reason I don’t think the puddle example works is because a puddle can’t think, and a puddle doesn’t have consciousness.
I basically believe what the quantum sciences are about. “You can’t have a universe without the mind to perceive it.”
I believe everything IS consciousness and energy and that we are a result of consciousness and we’re not separate from it.
That said, a Christian would think of it as “God and Man are not separate, but one in another.”
Everything is one.
And in my opinion, our bodies aren’t that big of a deal. It’s just the vehicle our consciousness is using at the moment. I believe when we die our consciousness (soul, to some) carries on and we change form/dimensions/fully awaken.
These thoughts aren’t just chemicals going off in our brain. Our brain is just the middle man between perfect consciousness and the reality we see through our tunnel vision.
That said, I don’t take life too seriously. It’s just a step to me.
Science is rational… therefore ‘God’ .. science is consistent, life is consistent, the water fitting in the hole is consistent with science.. not an anomoly.. anomolies would not produce eyes in a world where you need to see, and legs where you need to walk, mouths to speak, a complex brain, digestive system, food with specific components that react with ours in specific ways.. those are all ‘one in a billion’ it wouldn’t happen a billion times in a row, too many ducks in a row in other words.. I’m not trying to be arguemetative.. just defend my case…
the lottery is man made.. it’s a game, with rules, just like life is ‘god’ made, with rules..
I do believe in ‘God’ .. I also believe in beings smarter than us in our dimension.. that have been on this planet and done a lot with us before… that is a diff story tho, I think they are still subjected to ‘God’ .. but Jackson I can relate to you I believe, I was very turned off.. religion has been bred to manipulate, it is slowly correcting in the ‘community churches’
My question was directed at Kirsten’s last comment.
@Matt P, I can identify with your viewpoint, although I’ve never really thought of it in those terms.
My problem with intelligent design has always been, why make everything so needlessly complicated? If I were going to create something, and maybe I’m being a bit blasphemous here, but I would create it in it’s simplest form. I look at how ridiculously complex the human body is, how vast even just our solar system is, and for no apparent reason. Putting aside the whole, “this universe was created for us” ideology, why make us so fragile, so completely insignificant in the grand scheme of things? It never made sense to me, but then again I was not blessed with the gift of faith.
faith is overated.. you want answers just like me whether you believe in ‘god’ or not.. i’m assuming..
that made me laugh cause it is complex isn’t it! but the thing from a different viewpoint it’s prob very simple lol.. but i’m not admitting to be stupid.. lol
Here is an interesting theory which I neither believe or disbelieve but threw around in my brain earlier today. We are all one being experiencing the world differently “together.” The being which we are is daydreaming, gathering “information (ideas),” figuring out the fine details of this planet we have made up; figuring out what things, feel like, smell like, sound like, look like, taste like. Everything we are, know, and see is just our imagination which will gather back together as we awake from this daydream. We are one and we are God, and will then create this world which we live on and the cycle will just keep repeating itself (or something). Uhhhh… not sure if that made much sense. Oh well.
“The reason I don’t think the puddle example works is because a puddle can’t think, and a puddle doesn’t have consciousness.”
You have no idea how much that one statement hurt my faith in humanity. Holy shit. This discussion isn’t even worth my time anymore.
lol slow down Matt.. What about my arguement, the puddle is taking on the form of the whole, because it is liquid, the hole is walled from a solid.. I mean the break down could go on and on.. or substitute the puddle theory for an apple, and all the things that lined up to make that apple be accessable and edable (from our teeth, bite size, digestive system, it’s nutrients, ect.). You cant hold on to the one in a billion theory because these things are lining up with rational consistency over and over and over again… It’s pure rationality… all in row
jumping in here…
Matt: How long do you believe the earth has been around?
creationists: is evolution still out of the picture?
Everybody: Does anybody else find the term “god” aggravating? It seems to me that anybody can take the term and apply abstract meaning and there’s still a good chance that it will fit into Christian ideals because “god” is everything. I was talking about some universal subconscious ideas with a religious friend of mine who believes strongly in a personal god, a creator, and when we were almost done he ends it with “yep, that’s god”. It seems to me that some people are too afraid to come up with new names for their ideas. Even Einstein used the term when talking about a concept that was far from the standard definition of the time. God has come to be a very very broad term
This is from Conversations with God. I was obsessed with those books for the greater part of 2 years and I have always posted this explanation of God on the internet because it represents with great accuracy what I think God is. I’m assuming since I won’t make any money off this, Neale D. Walsh will be okay with it. I can never think about this enough actually…
In the begging, there was All That Is. Or what humanity has deemed God. All That Is existed in the Absolute Universe; no relativity. There was nothing else, for All That Is is All That Is, end of story. So All That Is could not experience itself because there was no contrast between what It was and what It was not. Because there was nothing else. This is in likeness to when you do not know you are short until you know tall. You can’t know hot without cold, and you can’t know good until you know bad, so on and so forth. Contrast.
So All That Is knew itself to be All That Is, but could not experience that. It knew conceptually what it was, but not experientially. This is in likeness to when you can know yourself to be kind, but cannot experience kindness until you DO something kind. So God knew Him/Herself to be utterly magnificent, but could not experience that because the very term “magnificent” is a relative term. So All That Is could not experience it’s magnificence until that which is NOT showed up.
But All That Is knew that it was…. All That Is, so it knew that it would never experience itself from a point outside of Itself. Such a point did not exist. But the All of Everything still wished to know itself experientially, so it realized that it would have to use a reference point from WITHIN. It reasoned that any portion of Itself would necessarily have to be less than whole, and that if It simply divided Itself into portions, each portion, being less than whole, could look back on itself and recognize its magnificence.
So it was that THREE elements then existed: that which is here, that which is there, and that which is neither here nor there, but which must exist for here and there to exist. The nothing which holds everything. The non-space which holds the space. The all which holds the parts.
This event was, incidentally, entirely consistent with that which is named The Big Bang Theory by human scientists. And as all the elements raced forth, TIME was created. For a thing was first here, and then it was there. And the period it took to get there was measurable. And so the RELATIVE UNIVERSE was created so that God could know Him/Herself experientially. There was only one way for the Creator to know Itself as the Creator, and that was to do just that: create.
So God gave the countless divisions of Himself/Herself the same power to create that He had as a whole. This is what religions mean when they say that we are “created in the image and likeness of God.” Not that we look alike physically, but that our essence is the same. Gods purpose in creating us was so that He could know Himself as God. There was no other way to do that, save through and as us.
All of our human mythologies and religions were created in order to try and understand this event of which the soul is deeply aware, but that the mind can barely comprehend.
But there was still a problem, the divided parts knew that they were parts of All That Is, and therefore still could not experience it. Again, the difference between knowing and experiencing something. The “spirits” or the “parts of the whole” longed to know themselves experientially (Just as God did). So God created a plan, the greatest plan of all the universe that would come into effect when spirit entered the physical universe (because physicality is the only was to know something experientially rather than conceptually).
This plan was that when we entered the physical universe (birth), we could know ourselves experientially, but first we had to come to know the OPPOSITE. The idea of contrast again. The ultimate logic that you cannot experience what you are until you encounter what you are not. This is the purpose of the theory of relativity and all physical life. It is by that which you are NOT that you yourself are defined. Have you not experienced in your own life instances where you saw or did things that you said “Ugh, I would never do that” or “I’ll never do that again”?
Of course, there is no way to not be What You Are. Because What You Are is just that: What You Are! So God planned into our lives the next best thing. We caused ourselves to FORGET Who We Really Are. Upon entering the physical universe, we relinquish our remembrance of ourselves. This allows us to CHOOSE Who We Are rather than just wake up in the castle, so to speak.
Our purpose is to remember Who We Are, which is a divine part of a divine whole, a member of the body. We cannot be that which we are not, because we are NOT THAT. We cannot not be a part of God, or God’s children, or inheritors of the kingdom (or whatever mythology you want to use), but we can forget, and then choose to remember. So our purpose is to re-member ourselves as a part of that which is whole, or Holy if you wish.