An attempt to prove ‘God’ .. disprove if you like

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Matt P (@mkp843)    3 years, 2 months ago

I have been thinking that it can be done lately… if you want to disprove ‘God’ feel free.. It doesn’t matter to me exactly you think ‘God’ is (please share if you like tho).. but by ‘God’ I am referring to a creator that created us specifically.

My theory is that our existence is one of two things… Random, or rational… there are no other options…

Random being some scientific, mathematical inconsistent anomaly that placed us here on this earth, and able to take care of ourselves, not ‘God’… Rational being ‘God’ placed us here with deliberation (is that a word?)

To me, this reality makes it undeniable.. Our existence is full of rationality, mathematical consistences, analogies and paradoxes, where ‘God’s’ work can be viewed and reflected on ourselves..

0 votes, posted 05.24.2011 at 1:02 am
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Matt P (@mkp843)3 years, 2 months ago ago

to add to my bubble! lol… Kevin’s theory is really good, but I’m guessing we could agree that our experiences of self are limited, and granted you believe your energy will continue after this life, you might agree that there are experiences outside of what can be experienced now in this life, waiting.. And Alexa asked, do you think there are other beings that effect our existence through various ‘frequencies’ .. I think yes, and I also think there are those that are beyond it, their frequencies separated because they would effect our lives to much.. Like a clash of the Titans kind of idea.. not in a bad way..

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james (@jamieeatsworld)3 years, 2 months ago ago

If we have a creator, he does not give a fuck about heaven or hell/sin. how could he send us to either when what he created made us who we are?

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Kevin (@benly150)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Whatever exists in “all existance” as we know it, is just a figure of our imagination. We are all that their is, and we are all one experiencing the different things in one form. Maybe there is something outside of what we are. Maybe we are God and if their are “aliens” on other planets, we have created them in our whole mind. The bible says that a man can move mountains. I believe this to be true, but we have to somehow access that part of our brain. We can do whatever we want, but our subconscious is limiting us from doing this. Maybe our conscious, “one brain,” has limited us to do these things. Again; not sure if this is making much sense, but I am late for class, so I have to get going :) All in all we are physically one being in a dream land we have created for our self. Maybe when we “die,” we will re create a new character for that part of our brain?

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Kevin (@benly150)3 years, 2 months ago ago

I also don’t believe in anything I think. All possibilities are open in my mind, and I don’t believe I, or anyone else will ever know. There are endless possibilities to life, God, and existence. We can be a figment of imagination, we can be physical living beings, Christianity may be one only truth, but so can extremists beliefs. The fact is who know. Believe what you want, but believing doesn’t make something a reality to everyone else; just to you. So don’t push your beliefs onto others, and don’t kill for what you believe, because you are just killing off the openness which your “mind” truly desires and needs to be sane and happy. Everything is real and everything is fake. Maybe there is one way which we are made to live our lives, but I don’t believe a God would create us to be so uniform. But maybe I’m wrong. We will never know. Also, if there was a God, why wouldn’t he just make himself obvious? Why so secretive? Some may argue that he is all around us, and we can see him in the mountains etc..Nope, I just see mountains, I don’t see an almighty force who says, “Hi Kevin, I am God, I created you and the world.” I just see amazingly beautiful mountains who did not make me or the world.

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Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

The only thing I’m not open to, the only thing I cannot accept, is people who don’t understand something so they automatically write it off as God or God’s work.

“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.”

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CosmicLemonade (@cosmiclemonade)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Kevin

“Believe what you want, but believing doesn’t make something a reality to everyone else; just to you. So don’t push your beliefs onto others, and don’t kill for what you believe, because you are just killing off the openness which your “mind” truly desires and needs to be sane and happy. Everything is real and everything is fake.”

I can relate to that last sentence. We all create our own reality tunnel that is both real and fake. That doesn’t mean we create reality.

“Also, if there was a God, why wouldn’t he just make himself obvious? Why so secretive?”

Because that would be no fun at all. :)

“Some may argue that he is all around us, and we can see him in the mountains etc..Nope, I just see mountains, I don’t see an almighty force who says, “Hi Kevin, I am God, I created you and the world.” I just see amazingly beautiful mountains who did not make me or the world.”

This made me think of a quote by Alan Watts:

The hills are shadows, the poet says, that flow from form to form; and nothing changes.

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Max Moon (@maxmoon)3 years, 2 months ago ago

God/yaweh/alah/shiva/flying spaghetti monster/reptilians/big bang are human constructs. The (insert type of bible here) bible/Torah/Qur’an/rig veda/dianetics are human constructs. Some are older than others, and they are all great and memorable stories. Scientific findings over the last six hundred years or so are also human constructs, but they are not stories. They are observable and repeatable.
Is consciousness/oneness a reality? You bet! Descartes: “I think therefore I am.” Everyone wants answers, regardless of belief (thanks Matt P). The scientific method provides a way to get closer to those answers, which will likely lead to yet more questions. Does the scientific community believe in the big bang theory? (key word being THEORY) Some do, some don’t.Did something come from nothing? It’s not likely. It must have always been there. Then how do you explain the observed expansion of the universe? Perhaps what folks call the big bang wasn’t a bang at all but a transfer of matter from one universe to another, collisions and shifts of energetic strings and branes, giving rise to cycles. For more understanding, try reading Brian Greene’s series of books. He does a pretty good job explaining modern scientific findings and theories in layman’s terms without taking any belief standpoint. Scientific studies are doing the best they can to find out about a particle/wave/string manifestation called the Higgs Boson. (NOT a god particle, as some have dubbed it) Whether it exists or not is also a theory supported by mathmatics. Can we observe or imagine physics working in a scale smaller than a Planck length i.e. 1^(-35)m? In seven extra unseeable spacial dimensions, yes, but in our 3D brane, Not yet! That kinda disproves most current theories about how the universe works. Yes it does. Shit. :-)

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Vien Nguyen (@nguy1466)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Does it make sense that the world was created six thousand years ago along with with human, Ask why are there dinosaur bones left over from 250 millions years ago? Is god testing us? To me GOD in the bible or Quran or what ever books is the easy way out religions give us in trying to explain why exist life on earth. I don’t believe that we are worshiping the true god. I believe that we do have a creator, but it might not be some godly magician who say “POOF, let us have light in the sky..” Perhaps it can be some ancient alien who found the condition of earth is perfect for life and they started the seeds of life or it could have been a happy coincident of the universe, but then it was evolution that created us. Once evolution start, there will be intelligent life form eventually (even if it took us a few hundred million years and condition on earth that we have finally come along).
Isnt it coincidence we found that we can use oil to power out life? and it was oil that took our world from riding horse back to riding car on the roads we build from oil based materials? Did god created us and our world and then created oil in the ground so we can suck it up and destroy our world within a few hundred years? Is it a trial god give us? or He is just careless? or Perhaps OUr creator was no god but some mortal from some other plannet?

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Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Vien: Widen your view point. We are one planet. Asking if God created fossil fuels so we can destroy our planet is futile. Ask yourself rather “Who or what created EVERYTHING? How did something come from nothing?”

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Matt P (@mkp843)3 years, 2 months ago ago

I’m seeing alot of agreement that God exists (being a creator), rational!

My logic is undeniable… hah

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Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Why do we have to believe that something came from nothing? Or that EVERYTHING was created? Is it not possible that everything that is, has always been and always will be?

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Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

It seems to me that a lot of people get stuck on the start and end, because everything we know has a definite beginning and end, but why does the universe have to conform to that narrow view point? I think right now we just don’t have the capacity to understand everything that’s going on, and to me (and I mean just to me, not a shot at anybody else), inventing a creator seems like a cop out. I hope someday that science will have all of the answers

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Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Mike: Yes! You’ve got it! What you are describing is Infinity – Science refuses to admit that the Universe is Infinite. Because something CANNOT come from nothing.

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Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

“The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize their relationship, their oneness with the universe and all its powers, and when they realize that at the center of the universe dwells the Great Spirit, and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us.”

Black Elk – Oglala Sioux

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Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

There are scientists on both sides of that argument, I believe. But I personally am not sure if this universe is infinite, but I also don’t believe that this universe is the only universe. There was an interesting article I read recently about the possibility of black holes containing other universes. There’s just so much beyond what we don’t know, and even beyond what we don’t even know we don’t know… ya know?

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Iuvenesco (@iuvenesco)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Science does not state that an infinite universe is impossible, Kirsten.

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Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

luvenesco: Mainstream Science seems to make this assumption ie: Big Bang Theory.

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Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Mike: you clearly have an open, inquiring mind. Nothing wrong with that in my book xox

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ben (@subtle)3 years, 2 months ago ago

As an apatheist i am 10 times happier and appreciate our planet and existence for what it is so much more than when i was questioning god and all that… If you’re trying to “be enlightened” or something along those lines, i strongly suggest just entertaining the idea that god and religion are man-made concepts.

and for all the questions about the origin of the universe and what-not, consider the possibility that everything just… exists. there’s no reason why we’re here, so why question it?? the fact that we’re even alive and have some of the technology we’ve created is BEYOND mind-blowing when you realize no one created us. we just happened.

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Kevin (@benly150)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Time is now, so time is our God :)

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CosmicLemonade (@cosmiclemonade)3 years, 2 months ago ago

I disagree ben. I don’t think we just happened. I think we grew out of this world as an apple does from a tree. Technology is our way of manipulating the natural world that we grew out of.

I also disagree with the argument for the non-existence of God because it is just a made up concept. I think communication of feeling and thought were probably detrimental to our evolution as a species and, while we have confused the symbolic nature of our method of communication with reality and so in some ways diluted its effectiveness, the desire for meaningful relationships with others and nature caused our creation of language and consecutively meaning/culture. I feel that this desire was a natural step in the logically evolving complexity of life. Religion was inspired by this desire to comprehend the whole from the perspective of the part.

While the word God and the concept of God are wholly conceptual and imaginary, they represent a desire to communicate a legitimate experience of interconnectivity, purpose, and divine design. This experience does not only involve conception of an idea in the mind, but is perceived as an experience of synchronicity between the inner and outer worlds.

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Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Ben: Interesting…but not likely. I don’t think something as complex, immense and (in my book) infinite just happens…That just really doesn’t add up..

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ben (@subtle)3 years, 2 months ago ago

what i mean by us “just happening” is that the conditions continued to be right for “us” to evolve the way we did from lone atoms… and it’s amazing. and aaron I wasn’t using that as an argument, its just a truth in the philosophy i use to approach all of this. there is no physical proof of religion, and regardless of anything you believe a human child raised in the wild would have absolutely no knowledge of anything remotely religious.

and why do you think communication was detrimental to anything? all evidence has pointed to us being social creatures… two minds are better than one

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Kevin (@benly150)3 years, 2 months ago ago

I believe Ben makes some interesting points. It seems just as mind boggling and impossible that everything just happened as it does that there is a God (at least ones people worship), which created us. They are both insane ideas, both of which don’t have enough answers for us to wrap our minds around. I think Ben makes a somewhat good point when he says,

“If you’re trying to “be enlightened” or something along those lines, i strongly suggest just entertaining the idea that god and religion are man-made concepts.”

Nothing will ever be proven. No matter how hard you may try to find something to believe in, a part of you will never fully accept it as the truth. Enlightenment can only be found within yourself, if you continuously seek it. If you can get the same spiritual enlightenment, if not more from that of religions, or a “God,” Then why would you need to pick and choose which God to choose? Religions are all pick and choose; Whatever works best for you and your lifestyle. I like to think of them as “designer religions.” Obviously they are not all “the way, the truth, and the light,” so you will never know which one (if any) are really true. Just because one fits your lifestyle and culture better than other ones does not make it truth. If you want to believe in a religion, great! If that is what you truly need for enlightenment go for it. If you are in constant search for a the truth of who we are and where we came from through religions to choose from, I would suggest taking Ben’s advice, because you will never find the answers you are looking for. Even if you find a religion that suits your needs, there will be questions within the religion which cannot be answered.

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CosmicLemonade (@cosmiclemonade)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Kevin

“Nothing will ever be proven. No matter how hard you may try to find something to believe in, a part of you will never fully accept it as the truth. Enlightenment can only be found within yourself, if you continuously seek it.”

Yes, this point is true; but I think a distinction should be made between proof of the conception of God (whatever it is) and proof of the experience of God. Experience is subjective proof of many things people believe because it is more real than conceptualization.

But conceptualizing these experiences allows us to communicate them in a detailed manner that is valuable. Just because we made up God doesn’t mean it has no meaning in reality. Also, by reading into emotional undertones, a sense of real experience can be communicated. Just because we made up musical notation doesn’t mean we don’t use it to connect emotionally with others. Only when the musician gets too caught up in the dots on the page is emotional significance of the music lessened. But if you ignore the purpose of musical notation and theory (tedious thought it may be), playing many types of music will be like stumbling in the dark.

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