I’ve never taken them personally, but I know a lot of people who have. I’ve been doing a lot of reading about the subject and even thought about doing them at one point, but probably won’t for a few reasons. Just wondering what’s H.E view on the subject is? Anyone ever done them?
@piptherational, testicular atrophy isn’t permanent. i would more so worry about getting boobs, but even that’s pretty avoidable.
@flyingrhino, that and talking to people that i know who have done them and had little to no side effects was what changed my opinion about them and got me interested in the subject in general. moderation and slow experimentation seems to be key with them and a lot of people tend to go way over board and don’t take the time to research what they are getting themselves into.
Unless you’re a professional bodybuilder, my opinion is, what the fuck is the point!? I think it’s the most pointless thing ever if you’re doing it just to get bigger for no other reason than because you want to get bigger. I mean honestly – lift weights to maintain a healthy and fit body. Don’t lift weights because you want to look huge. What are you going to do with all that muscle anyway?
And on top of all that….do you really want to put something unnatural into your body? Yes, I know people who have taken them and have had little to no side effects. But still….really? Think about it – you’re putting something synthetic into your body. Personally, I just wouldn’t do it.
@chodebalm, Please try to avoid the naturalistic fallacy that natural products are somehow inherently better or healthier than synthetic alternatives, for this generalization has no basis and often we find that things are better produced in controlled synthesis than allowed to produce in nature.
Moving on @kyle, Are you looking for a discussion on the ethics of steroids in competition? Or are you searching for assistance in your decision-making on whether you should take them or not. The latter depends on your goals and the decision is quite simple – Do you want to gain more muscle but feel that you’ve reached an impassable plateau in your intense training? Are you a professional body builder or power lifter who can’t truly compete at the top level without using steroids? If you answered yes to either of these questions then steroids are worth consideration. If you answered no to both of them, which I presume is likely, then you probably desire a shortcut to becoming bigger and/or stronger because you’re working relatively hard but not seeing enough progress; and to this I recommend you eat better and train harder and avoid succumbing to the temptation of laziness, for you will be much better for it in satisfaction and character should you reach your goals without the help of steroids (or most supplements).
I won’t delve into the ethics of steroids in this thread, as that would eventually spread into a discussion of general cosmetic enhancement, which is a lovely compelling discussion but one too broad for this thread I feel. @kyle,
@eyesopen, Um? Natural isn’t healthier then synthetic? LOLOLOL. That’s all I have to say. It isn’t a fallacy it is the truth and there’s much evidence to support it. You would have to be pretty ignorant to believe otherwise. If you want some evidence I would be happy to fill the thread with pages full with some personal experience mixed in. Although, some how I could be misunderstanding you in some shape or form. And of course there’s exceptions to this.
In many cases natural alternatives of products ARE healthier than their synthetic analogues, my point is that by nature of something being natural it is not inherently healthier, these things must be considered on a case-by-case basis. For example, modern Western medicine is generally considered to be based on synthetic treatments, and yet this quality does not in any way inherently diminish the effectiveness of western medicine versus naturalistic medicine, to claim this would be illogical.
The term naturalistic fallacy is more typically applied to philosophy, specifically morality, but it’s also relevant to this argument. —-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy <— if you're curious
@eyesopen, Effectiveness is not diminished, no, but look at all the billions of DOCUMENTED “side-effects” (they’re really just part of the effect, there’s nothing “side” about it.)
@kyle, Yeah I’ve tried em, very overrated stuff. Most people think they can just start juicing and it will make them stronger or bigger or whatever, but that’s not true at all. You gotta work out so much harder, and eat like a fucking horse too if you want those results. And as soon as you drop the roids you lose a lot of what you gained.
I didn’t experience those nasty “side” effects that a lot of people get, all I got was aggressive mood swings, but I still think the juice is worthless.
You can naturally increase your body’s own production of androgens instead, for a much more stable result and no side effects. Of course it doesn’t come close to juicing, but then again, what’s so bad about putting in the time and effort needed instead of trying to cheat?
@manimal, Are you insinuating that so-called ‘natural’ products don’t also have effects other than strictly their intended purpose? If I’m not mistaken one of the goals of synthetic product production (health-wise) is isolating products in nature to REDUCE unintended effects.
How do you suggest increasing your body’s production of androgens?
@eyesopen, Nope I’m not insinuating anything like that, of course everything has a range of effects.
But when it comes to pharmaceutical drugs, they do much more harm than good. If reducing undesired effects was their intention, they they’ve brought a real meaning to the term “epic fail.”
Increasing the body’s production of androgens is no rocket science. Just raise the need for it, supply the raw materials, and stay clear of toxins that reduce or cripple the androgen levels.
@eyesopen, yes as manimal has stated, western medicine is a JOKE and natural cures ARE in fact better for you and don’t cause a flurry of side effects. Have you ever seen pill commercials? Sure they help with one thing but fuck the rest of you up by giving more side effects then help.
I can’t say anything from a bodybuilder point of view but, from a fighters point of view i am strongly against people who use steroids and are fighters. Fighting is meant to be a competition between 2 human beings with their natural bodies. Users (what most people i know call people who use steroids) don’t care about this and just take them to be stronger and faster without the work. Fighters take pride in what they do and show that through training and learning. Users disgrace that pride and honor by cheating a fighters way of life and themselves.
I intended for the conversation to be broad just because I think it’s not really something that is discussed between bodybuilders, athletes and people who aren’t as active, or only recreationally do these activities. I just wouldn’t mind seeing the general opinions between them.
I made up my mind along time ago that I like being natural. I am no where near the point of training where I would need to take them anyway. I actually love the term “naturalistic fallacy”. Thank you for introducing it to me because it seems like something I will tend to use a lot.
What ones did you use and why did you use them?
“Have you ever seen pill commercials?” Yeah and I have also seen a lot of adds about all natural products that really won’t do anything for you. Natural product companies can be just as bad as big pharmaceutical companies because a lot of their products provide false hope for people that may need proper medical treatment.
A lot of the guys I know use them to endure some of the more intense training for fighting and different sports.
@kyle, Sure, if people can make money off shit they will. It’s up to you to do your own research on which natural products will actually work without marketing hype. At least you won’t fucking die from side effects if you go the natural route.