Atheists views on Agnostics?
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Most atheists are agnostics and most agnostics are atheists. It’s possible to be both because atheism and agnosticism address different questions. Atheism addresses whether or not there is a god, while agnosticism addresses how certain one can be about such claim. Obviously, the two are not mutually exclusive. It’s not that difficult of a concept to grasp.
Do you need to be 100 percent certain that there is no god to be an atheist? What about being 100 percent certain that there is a god to be a theist? A big no to both. I mean, the only field of knowledge where you can have such certainty is mathematics, and that’s because it deals with abstract concepts. For everything else, evidence might lead in a certain direction. A good default stance on any given belief is to not believe to start out with and then start to accept the validity of said stance if there is legitimate evidence for it. That’s what skepticism is about. Show me the evidence. I won’t believe if you don’t.
Personally, I am an atheist because I don’t think that there is any reliable evidence for the existence of God(s). That of course, is a vacuously true statement because there isn’t really any coherent definition of what God is, and without one, it makes no sense to talk about evidence. It also leaves belief in God(s) unjustified. Now, I probably won’t believe in God ever. Once I think about an idea and determine that it’s wrong, I drop it and move on. The existence of gods isn’t really that important of a question.
@shivvy, …Yeah, don’t get me wrong, I love atheists, especially Penn Jillette, and I really enjoy hearing him talk about atheism and his views on it, but I just can’t for the life of me stand or hear out Dawkins…
@soulshine, Yeah Dawkins and the other 4 Horsemen of the new atheists crowd are so arrogant that it drives me nuts. I mean sure, they wipe the floor with theists, but anyone can roll over a fundamentalist no problem. They make a sport out of it and their millions of worshippers just eat it up as if they’re doing something extraordinary.
I believe Atheists believe in God, they just refuse to heap what they believe into the same category of common definition of what God is. No one would be here if they didn’t believe something, if that faith is in money, themselves or something else, it is a belief and belief itself fundamentally what God is. The reason you don’t just off yourself is because you take that leap of faith and believe something, even if it is the most superficial and meaningless thing you can find.
@scott3600, Yes, I understand what you’re saying. I haven’t decided which way I lean on that matter. I may be leaning more towards saying that no, animals do not experience eternal nothingness upon death, insofar as they too are consciously aware, having their own subjective world of existence like we do. This is a very difficult topic to make progress in, as no conscious being can ever prove that another being is truly conscious in the way that they themselves are.
At this point I seem to fall under the agnostic theist category. My wikipedia search has ascertained that “Agnostic theism could be interpreted as an admission that it is not possible to justify one’s belief in a god sufficiently for it to be considered known.”
I also found this Kierkegaard quote to be interesting:
“If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe.”
@snaysler, You can work out a general approximation of the probability to be likely very low, just by using the evidence we have know to disprove parts of the Bible, and logic to find flaws in the concept of religion.
Please watch this short video I actually created myself to see what the odds are of your religion being correct. I think you will find it interesting:
@caoimhesweeney, I don’t label myself anything either, I just believe in “God” in general…But I enjoy the peaceful opinion of everyone. I can easily befriend an atheist or believer of any type as long as they are respectful of everyone’s different views…..I understand what you mean…but It’s like me talking to my best atheist friend…We never have any disrespect between our different views and we actually like to hear each others sides of the story.
@stonedphysicist, You’re going to tell me that Sam Harris isn’t arrogant? He posts a bunch of stuff on his blog in which he criticizes whoever he pleases but then backs down whenever he is asked to debate. He destroyed Eben Alexander (the Dr. who had an NDE and was the author of that Heaven Is Real article) in a blog post but then didn’t give him a chance to defend himself in a debate. Furthermore, that post ha d a quote in which he said that neurosurgeons only operate on the brain, they don’t necessarily know how it works. What? Really? You can’t post this kind of stuff on your blog and then run like hell when the one you were attacking confronts you.
Harris only ever debates New-Age fools that anyone could mop the floor with; that’s like shooting fish in a barrel. However, anytime someone from the scientific community challenges him (Bernardo Kastrup comes to mind recently), Harris is no where to be found.
Don’t get me wrong Stoned, they all have very good information to transfer to their loyal followers. Heck, a lot of them have even remixed Alan Watts’ talks and give similar talks to their followers. However, the arrogance can often be seen when they simply mock others for questioning Darwinism or believing that there might actually be something behind the NDE phenomenon. They’re not even willing to give the other side a fighting chance, which in my opinion no one should do (unless it’s fundamentalists :p)
Actually, generally speaking, the agnostics are the true scientist minds. Both atheists and religious folk are in the wrong from a scientific standpoint, as they both claim to have information that they cannot have. You cannot know that God doesn’t exist, you can only suspect it’s highly improbable. Also, you cannot really “prove” that God does exist, assuming he does. Therefore it’s generally stubborn, biased people that are religious, and, humorously, the same sort of people who are atheist. The agnostic stance is the stance of the man who is a true non-biased truth-seeker.
Never delude yourself to believe that you are required to choose a side on an argument. Keep an open mind, and everything in life is so much more magical and clear.
I used to be a believer, as I was raised to believe so. Then, as I learned and grew, I became atheist. Then, as I learned and grew a little further, I became agnostic. Now, I rather spiritual, but generally have no strong beliefs about these matters.
I’d like to start by stating that I am agnostic. I have been down the rabbit hole on both the theistic and atheistic sides so that I can gain perspective. Theistic and atheistic philosophies are similar in that they are both making strong claims. Theistic, for the existence of a higher power that cannot be unproven and is also unfalsifiable. And atheistic people are those taking the scientific stance, choosing to argue with logic and numbers. Agnosticism is more like theism except with too great of an understand of logic and science to accept theism, but agnostics are also not arrogant enough to deny something that is unprovable and unfalsifiable the way an atheist does. Agnostics are relativists. As agnostics, we understand that things aren’t always as they seem. We understand that each and every person’s perspective is completely different than another’s. We understand that an immovable object and an unstoppable force are really the same thing in a different frame of reference. Agnostics know that an Intelligent Designer could never be an anthropomorphic man hanging out in the clouds. We know that a higher power has to be something greater, like space-time, or whatever boson particles are believed to make up space-time. Agnostics know a lot of things, but also that all empirical knowledge is completely relative. The fact that you know something right now does not mean you will know the same fact an instant later (or know the fact in the same way) because space-time is in constant flux (and our experience of it is in constant flux). It is the idea that we can not hold anything empirical to be inherently true that keeps us from claiming that there is or isn’t an Intelligent Designer.
@snaysler, I’m following a similar path as you my friend. I’m currently transitioning from a die-hard atheist into an open minded individual who accepts the possibility of something big. Something we may not be meant to know or understand.
@soulshine, As an atheist, I did not have a problem with agnostics. In fact, I didn’t have a problem with theists either. As long as you’re a cool guy/gal, it’s honestly none of my business what you believe, and I can not rightfully pass judgement. However, I still feel uncomfortable around preachy theists. I just keep my mouth shut in those situations. :)
As an atheist myself, I understand you can never disprove that God exists as its just one of those things no-one will ever know. However I call my self atheist as I am as sure as I can be that there is very likely no God. I think agnostics who think the same way as this should just call themselves atheists instead of being technically correct and calling themselves agnostics because they know you cannot disprove or prove God. Everyone should know that you cannot 100% prove or disprove God so in my opinion those who think 99.99999% God doesn’t exist might as well call themselves atheist.