Basic Rights versus Earned Rights
This is a strait up extension of conclusions I came to on this thread http://www.highexistence.com/topic/what-is-your-way-of-restoring-your-faith-in-humanity/
The thing is, I have no authority to define those myself and enforce them, I can help in the process though.
I know we all hate the idea of forcing anything on people, and you are absolutely right, I don’t object to that. But every philosophy you currently enjoy as a free right is being taken away from other people who deserve it.
This thread is not about forcing anything but only about coming to reasonable conclusions to provide everyone with the same freedom you enjoy. It is bad to enforce but it is empathic to try to find a way to appropriately justify everything our civilization enforces and ignores.
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truth be told, i’m already late to bed and could only skim these responses, but here’s some of my two-cents.
so long as we live in a social-contract-based society, there will always be a blurry line between given rights and earned rights. even when we think of something as basic as the “right to live,” we’re automatically involving ourselves in the discussions of abortion and capital punishment (neither of which are topics i’d like to get into) and the idea that one’s life can be taken given a mandate from the masses. i do agree with the more blanketed approach of earning rights based on one’s participation in society. in america, for example, they say that voting is a privilege, not a right. to some extents, i agree. felons can’t vote, as they’ve failed to hold up their end of the social contract. at the same time, i feel as though people who don’t participate in society (another conversation for another time) shouldn’t necessarily be given the benefits of that society. continuing with the voting example, if someone doesn’t study pamphlets or candidate statements, why should they be allowed to vote?
Ok, I will just talk to myself.
The responsibilities of freedom depend a lot on not hurting people, but if that were the only factor then we would have no powers to stop others who hurt people. This is a big key to it all. All situations vary, some times you have options to stop people from harming others, evident because we actually have prisons and generally certain people and animals seperated from other people and animals. Other times killing is the only option, but this is not always strait forward either because everyone makes mistakes on judgement calls.
So then we have to establish the intent of force, malicious or human error, deliberate or accidental, if the person paniced, was neglectful or was in clear sensibility.
If they were clearly sensible then we establish motive, was it justifiable or excessive, then deem accordingly.
But then we have cases where the cause of harm is not dirrect, that people make various decisions everyday, if they know who and how it will effect others must be established. Then we have the motives for the decision. The scope of the decision determines accountability for the micro-management of the effects, and if the person in question cannot manage that area appropriately then the area must be divided into areas that are manageable.
Do you see what I am getting at?
The key point is that you take the money you need to fix the world up, this not only includes implimenting greener technologies but providing people with the means to become self-sufficient. The fact is that people who are self-sufficient, therefore countries with a high self-sufficiency rate, have lower population growths. You do this and we have a manageable, even sustainable, global population growth.
Then we don’t feel like jack-asses for poverty mortality, which is completely disgraceful of us, but you have a larger consumer base, which equals profits across the board. So what, fossil fuel industries decline? That is the point, but you would think that all the money they made they could invest in the profit making areas of the future, you gotta know when to cash your chips and start betting on a different pony.
Sum total: We take money from business in order to fix the world to increase business, sustainable and justifiable business. Where is the problem in that? It is simply a business opportunity and you get all the bleeding hearts and radicals off your back (or they find a new cause).
Pretty much the only option is if we could organize enough people world wide to rally boycotts against any company that refuses to do it, well I can dream.
The thing is, there are probably about 50 or so companies that would really need to be on board, you would probably have to boycott them one by one, with tens of millions of people world wide collaborating. Not impossible to do, especially if it trends.
This is what everyone wants, even if you have no idea what I’m talking about and you probably don’t. But even the richest people in the world want this, simply because it makes their lives better. The only person that does not benefit from this is the person who has no part of it. This is not communism or any new type of government, it works on exactly the same system we are under. It even uses the same principle that is found under capitalism, the subsidiary rights and responsibility method, totally a corporate idea.
@beyond, Yep, mankinds endless search for the great excuse that proves they are not responsible for their own behaviour :) That’s what I said about spirituality, sure it is nice to acheive, but absence of empathy is still apathy, a spiritual person is no exception.
But what, are you going to love people into doing the right thing? No, you offer them a trade off, you take their money and do the right thing with it and create the environment for them to make even more money in return. It is simple and that is what this proposal is. Something practical to buy people of logic and empathy,a sense of duty and responsibility, the means to fix up what is neglected and pay back many times over those who chipped in to get it done.
What do you want to sing Kumbaya in the parking lots, hoping they do something? Fuck that, they wont do shit, you make a business proposition.
Okay, I really do not have the time, patience, nor interest for that matter in reading what appears to be about two dozen entries made after having been awake for 72 straight hours, but if you’re going to argue about basic, or should I say “Natural” rights versus the rights we grant to ourselves as part of society, I need to step into this.
First of all, there’s no such thing as basic, natural, or inalienable rights. There is nothing in this world that we are entitled to by the mere fact that we exist. To quote Robert Heinlein (even though he took the idea out of context): “A man in the middle of the ocean may have the right to live, but that doesn’t mean he’s going to.” Any right we possess is done so through the method of social contract. We give up our freedom to gain security. Many misstate this as “We give up our rights to gain security.” but the fact is that this security comes in the form of rights. No amount of rights, or lack of them, will stop that mugger’s bullet from shattering your skull. But in your last moments of life, you can take comfort that when that mugger is caught he will be charged with violating your right to live as afforded to you by your government.
Then yo have the fact that some areas are more profitable than others and you have areas where the responsibilty to manage outweigh the resorces that area provides to manage it. So generally, all areas cannot be completely independant of each other but the profits of one area have a certain responsibility to the management of other areas. That is where we as human beings and a civilization are neglectful and deny liability.
Low population growth is directly related to self-sufficiency. You need to know how to be self-sufficient and that entails an education. Then once you are self-sufficient, coupled with your education, you develop self-determination, what you intend to do with your life. This all adds up to free-thinking, planning for the future, consideration for how hard you will have to work to provide a decent life for your kids. But then you may decide, why would I want kids at all? I’m having too much fun without that responsibility.
haha, oil and gas, we’re screwed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_by_revenue
It is not a one world government, nothing changes about anything. The economies are no more connected than they already are, but that areas that need help are helped by areas that already have more than they want. It is just a balancing mechanism. It just sets everything right that real progress can be made and we don’t look like idiots any more.
I am actually quite strict on how I see things. I believe you are responsible for your own, parents should be giving their kids what they need to become self-sufficient, but this cannot always be the case. In the case of povert, even the parents don’t know how to be self-sufficient and we all have a duty to give them that opportunity.
But once given the opportunity you have a duty to yourself and society to use it, if you don’t then there is no free ride, we deck out a factory floor with cots and feed them mass crap for food, this gives them motivation to move into that self-sufficiency, or stay in a shit life. Certain things we provide, like tools to seek work and to make them presentable, even educate them some more, but no money.
People should lose their privilages, freedoms and rights, the more they neglect their duties such as self-sufficiency, not deliberately harming others in malice and staying in a state where their choices are not adversely effected by addiction (not just drugs but any state of dependancy that causes you to neglect your duties as a citizen).
The fact is that you have no real self-determination without achieving your self-sufficiency anyway so they are not losing anything by coming under protections. But no one is ever really fully self-sufficient, but people can attain this to a reasonable level and it is not asking too much. We just have the duty as a global civilization to make sure people have the opportunity to become self-sufficient and we don’t do that without some kind of practical plan.
@thelaughingfool, I beg to differ, empathy is a natural value that conforms with the fundamental principles of the universe. We naturally have, we naturally use it and we know it exists as much as we know ourselves to exist at all.
For people with empathy it is the humane thing to do, for people only interested in making money it is the logical thing to do, without it we lose it all. Yes it will cost at first, probably for some time, but once you start to get on top of things you start to see a marked improvement. Once all the issues are solved then it is a frign golden era.
Here’s what I think. That guy quoting Osho needs to shut the fuck up and have his own opinion.
I mean, fuck that guy. Trevor Fletcher. What a fucking loser and stuff, and oh how offensive I am and how useless someone is.
I said that because Basic rights in addition with earned rights is what everyone does all the time. On a forum on the Internet, a few would hold their ground without showing any kind of gratitude and connection. That Trevor guy is a pussy actually, a spammer searching for himself, still struggling if his basic rights were earned.
Everyone has the right to talk to themselves, hence the attention this thread has and the time you wasted. Everyone is making judgment calls because that’s how the mind works, it’s observing, judging. ESTIMATING.
You never earned anything, you’re a witness of being a receiver.
This is basically how it works:
Every business in the free world registers as a subsidiary. The “Father” organization is not powerful or authoritarian, it is simply an accounting (number cruncher) entity that works out where the global economies need most balancing. This overall strengthens the economies so to create better productivity and efficiency, but it also means we can work on issues that had previously been neglected due to economic impracticality.
This can help poverty, climate change and general restoration of nature. It also helps every business, including the most profitable, by creating the environment for them to thrive.