Basic Rights versus Earned Rights
This is a strait up extension of conclusions I came to on this thread http://www.highexistence.com/topic/what-is-your-way-of-restoring-your-faith-in-humanity/
The thing is, I have no authority to define those myself and enforce them, I can help in the process though.
I know we all hate the idea of forcing anything on people, and you are absolutely right, I don’t object to that. But every philosophy you currently enjoy as a free right is being taken away from other people who deserve it.
This thread is not about forcing anything but only about coming to reasonable conclusions to provide everyone with the same freedom you enjoy. It is bad to enforce but it is empathic to try to find a way to appropriately justify everything our civilization enforces and ignores.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
You take the financial data from all the subsidiaries then you crunch the numbers by accountants. Then you get economists to figure out where the weak spots are and if or what we can do to improve the area. This would be a huge job, opportunities for work, but we would not be flying blind any more, we would have a genuine map of the function and then be able to manipulate it to our advantage.
@trek79, no, I don’t think this is about forcing anyone to do anything either. It’s just about changing how people view the world and the value of a human life. I’m not saying we should give everyone a mansion and a Cadillac, but I do say that people deserve a better minimum than starving in the streets because we are civilized, not just animals, and that as technology improves and becomes more common, we as a civilization should be able to raise the bar. We can choose a higher road because we can counter our instincts with reason and compassion. A lot of conservative people like to say that human life has no inherent value except what it provides to society, but how can you be loyal to something that has no respect for you in return, indeed, something that only keeps most of us alive so that it can continue using and abusing us? That’s not loyalty, it’s coercion. These are usually the same people who have plenty, and they like to say people shouldn’t have this or that, but I bet they wouldn’t say that so easily if it was them who would lose something.
@tigerturban, That is why people need each other, because they cannot always be aware of every factor because they are not perfect, if someone is not aware of something that you know and is indeed asking for insight into what he is not seeing, then what? Is it funny to watch him squirm on his failure? You sit back and enjoy it? You don’t just say someone is doing something wrong, you show them why, you tell them what they missed. You don’t come back later on and say you told them they were wrong, because no you didn’t, you just laughed in their face and left them to rot.
Freedom comes from truth; it can be achieved as a basic and as an earned …And i think that freedom can be earned on many scales too. For people that are mentally and emotionally broken, they must heal their wounds step by step until they’ve proven to themselves that they can face the truth and set themselves free, and there is the freedom at the cost of being tied down by others and having no say this at the expense of strength and will to survive. But, there are factors that can reach freedom and it is not easy, many people do seem to believe they are free, but they aren’t, especially when being trapped in the mind or trapped in a prison cell. either way, if the truth is within reach, if there ar which is possible because the truth will always be there, however we as people are ignorant to that type of stuff… but back to what i was saying, if there are no quarrels or pitfuls, and or a way out of that, then freedom can be sought. But if you are blinded then freedom is unattainable. Hopefully this might help….
@theskafish, That is my point exactly, it is not about forcing anything but showing people the benefits of focusing forces in a reponsible way, a simple duty that we have. Duty has never forced anyone but the person with it, and how that has manifested is key.
You don’t have to enforce a thing by law, it is about every one of us just saying it is ok, its a right, its not my place, someone being a dick is fine until it happens to you. So you ignore it? Yes that is nobel, but cowardly, grow nutz and stand up to ignorance, lest you want a cesspool society.
Plenty of people stand up for ignorance all because nobel cowards decide its their right.
Forget about beliefs, what do you need them for when you have natural and REAL empathic sensibilities inside you that YOU are responsible for standing up for as a principle.
So people have the right to be a dick, that’s fair enough, but you have the right to call them out on it and the right to refuse deflection of responsibility for their own actions.
If you are not comfortable in your power and authority then sub-contract it but take on subsidiary rights and responsibilities with it.
Ask yourself whos freedom is greater than their duty or liability? Each of us equal in that relation from bottom to very top, we have accountability to our own behaviour in each our designated roles. Individual cells of the one organism, any entity outside of this principle is cancer. Each of us an independant identity within a collective identity, Humanity, each of us with freedom, duty and liabiltity.
But considering there is the Kyoto protocol, that nations are signatories to, why isn’t there a similar pact for the elimination of poverty? Kyoto is actually against some of the big industries, but eliminating poverty is in everyones interest, especially the big industries, as it creates a larger consumer base.
@tigerturban, You are sure it is flawed? What do you just call ideas flawed without without explaination? Now that is sophistry.
Why am I a troll? Because I don’t want to be a bitch to the ignorant? Because I want people to take responsibility for their behaviour? That is why nothing gets done, because anyone with a brain thinks that it is the moral high ground to allow people the right to be dicks. That is sophistry.
You are always free to make judgement calls on your own behaviour but just remember the equal measure of duty and liability that comes with that right.
Don’t confuse understanding with demands, there is opportunity for both empathy and pure logic in that reasoning.
Feeding the poor is actually counter productive, it just gives them the opportunity to get worse, but all money should focus on getting them to self-sufficiency. That is one mistake I think we have made, we decided to feed them rather than give them the tools to feed themselves. But of course, nothing is that simple.
@birdysue313, Fuck that hippy shit, yes we can all achieve a mental state where nothing can harm us, but that is like saying fuck everyone else, I’m comfortable. Then saying they can be comfortable too they just have to reach the same mental state I’m in. Well not everyone is spiritual and if they were this world would suck balls.
Fuck spirituality, that is a belief you can find in yourself, good for you, but beliefs are a complete load of bullshit, if anything they can be used as a guideline, but empathy and logic are something real and confirmed, not just being stoned.
That is another huge problem, spirituality, it is just a cop out way of calling yourself apathetic.
Any suggestions of what is a right, is enough. You can also add if you think it is a basic or an earned right and why you think that so others can discuss it to see if we can conclude it or reasonably define the responsibilities that come with it.
For example, people say freedom is a basic right, but if that were true we would have no justification for prisons and generally seperating certain people and animals from other people and animals. So freedom is a basic right as far as you meet the responsibilities to keep it, but what are they?
I can put this issue to rest now, my dad made a good point, he said it is all about self-interest, that no one would do it until others do it but if others do it one would choose not to do it because he could benefit from the larger consumer base anyway, without spending a cent to create it. I under-estimate selfish greed is all. That is the only point I needed :)