Basic Rights versus Earned Rights
| Ray Butler
Thanks @theskafish, everything I say is never completely original, I admit that, we just have our own spin on interpretation we have gleaned. But this is not about forcing any business to do anything they do not want to do. So get that out of your head, this is not a suggestion of dictatorship. In business you make investments, some work out, others do not. This is a reasonable suggestion of how we can increase the consumer base, meaning greater profits to business, and eliminating the horrendous attributes of our world in the process. |
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| Anonymous
@trek79, We’ve got a bona fide genius here folks! http://i.imgur.com/MMNh0.gif ! |
| Ray Butler
Actually I’m 136 I.Q 4 points short of genius :) |
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| Anonymous
@trek79, and a few tacos short of a combo plate…why not stop living on HE and try a more populated forum to spread your nigh-infinite wisdom? |
| Ray Butler
@tigerturban, Because I am looking for people to prove me wrong before I make a jack-ass of myself and waste the time of people who are too busy to waste on idealism. |
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| Anonymous
@trek79, you’re an amazing man, Buts http://i.minus.com/ibgT0AfdMLG7fb.gif |
| Sean D Stevens
(@thelaughingfool)
8 months ago ago
Okay, I really do not have the time, patience, nor interest for that matter in reading what appears to be about two dozen entries made after having been awake for 72 straight hours, but if you’re going to argue about basic, or should I say “Natural” rights versus the rights we grant to ourselves as part of society, I need to step into this. |
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| Ray Butler
@thelaughingfool, I beg to differ, empathy is a natural value that conforms with the fundamental principles of the universe. We naturally have, we naturally use it and we know it exists as much as we know ourselves to exist at all. |
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| Sean D Stevens
(@thelaughingfool)
8 months ago ago
@trek79, While I’m not going to disagree that empathy is a powerful and natural emotional response, I will ask what that has to do with the concept of natural or earned rights. Could you define as best you can what a right is to you? |
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| Anonymous
@trek79, then why are not in this Empathy-Based Utopia right now? |
| Ray Butler
@tigerturban, @thelaughingfool, This is taken directly from this thread http://www.highexistence.com/topic/what-is-your-way-of-restoring-your-faith-in-humanity/ That is right, there is no right or wrong, good or bad, but there are these two distinct factors about everything: Contructive relationships and destructive forces in nature are the fundamental manifestation, but as that translates to human beings is as empathy/apathy, kindness/ignorance and love/fear. (to name the key factors) |
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| Ray Butler
So basically our rights include the responsibility of focusing destructive forces to a productive end, to minimize collateral damage. |
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| TheSkaFish
(@theskafish)
8 months ago ago
@trek79, no, I don’t think this is about forcing anyone to do anything either. It’s just about changing how people view the world and the value of a human life. I’m not saying we should give everyone a mansion and a Cadillac, but I do say that people deserve a better minimum than starving in the streets because we are civilized, not just animals, and that as technology improves and becomes more common, we as a civilization should be able to raise the bar. We can choose a higher road because we can counter our instincts with reason and compassion. A lot of conservative people like to say that human life has no inherent value except what it provides to society, but how can you be loyal to something that has no respect for you in return, indeed, something that only keeps most of us alive so that it can continue using and abusing us? That’s not loyalty, it’s coercion. These are usually the same people who have plenty, and they like to say people shouldn’t have this or that, but I bet they wouldn’t say that so easily if it was them who would lose something. |
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| Ray Butler
@theskafish, That is my point exactly, it is not about forcing anything but showing people the benefits of focusing forces in a reponsible way, a simple duty that we have. Duty has never forced anyone but the person with it, and how that has manifested is key. |
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| Ray Butler
I am not perfect or all knowing at all, if I were I would have no weakness, and clearly I do have weakness if you scroll through this whole thread. |
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| Ray Butler
I can put this issue to rest now, my dad made a good point, he said it is all about self-interest, that no one would do it until others do it but if others do it one would choose not to do it because he could benefit from the larger consumer base anyway, without spending a cent to create it. I under-estimate selfish greed is all. That is the only point I needed :) |
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| Ray Butler
Pretty much the only option is if we could organize enough people world wide to rally boycotts against any company that refuses to do it, well I can dream. |
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| Ray Butler
haha, oil and gas, we’re screwed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_by_revenue |
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| Sasho Stoyanov
Here’s what I think. That guy quoting Osho needs to shut the fuck up and have his own opinion. I mean, fuck that guy. Trevor Fletcher. What a fucking loser and stuff, and oh how offensive I am and how useless someone is. I said that because Basic rights in addition with earned rights is what everyone does all the time. On a forum on the Internet, a few would hold their ground without showing any kind of gratitude and connection. That Trevor guy is a pussy actually, a spammer searching for himself, still struggling if his basic rights were earned. Everyone has the right to talk to themselves, hence the attention this thread has and the time you wasted. Everyone is making judgment calls because that’s how the mind works, it’s observing, judging. ESTIMATING. You never earned anything, you’re a witness of being a receiver. |
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| Ray Butler
@beyond, Haha, and I was pretty harsh on the spiritual hippie also. |
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| Anonymous
@beyond, Sasha you’re obviously the the little joker of HE you’re the reason men like me bitchslap little geeks like you, capeesh? |
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| Anonymous
speaking of Osho!! (teehee!) Jesus and the money-changers People come to me and they ask, “What is right and what is wrong?” I say, “Awareness is right; unawareness is wrong.” I don’t label actions as wrong and right. I don’t say violence is wrong. Sometimes violence can be right. I don’t say love is right. Sometimes love can be wrong. Love can be for a wrong person, love can be for a wrong purpose. Somebody loves his country. Now, this is wrong because nationalism is a curse. Somebody loves his religion. He can kill, he can murder, he can burn others’ temples. Neither is love always right nor is anger always wrong. Then what is right and what is wrong? To me, awareness is right. If you are angry with full awareness, even anger is right. And if you are loving with unawareness, even love is not right. So let the quality of awareness be there in every act that you do, in every thought that you think, in every dream that you dream. Let the quality of awareness enter into your being more and more. Become suffused with the quality of awareness. Then whatsoever you do is virtue. Then whatsoever you do is good. Then whatsoever you do is a blessing to you and to the world in which you live. A whip in the hand of Jesus…? This is what Buddha means when he says, “an unwounded hand can handle poison.” Yes, Jesus can handle a whip, no problem; the whip cannot overpower him. He remains alert, his consciousness is such. The great temple of Jerusalem had become a place of robbers. There were money-changers inside the temple and they were exploiting the whole country. Jesus alone entered the temple and upturned their boards–the boards of the money-changers–threw their money around and created such turmoil that the money-changers escaped outside the temple. They were many and Jesus was alone, but he was in such a fury, in such a fire! Now, this has been a problem for the Christians: how to explain it?–because their whole effort is to prove that Jesus is a dove, a symbol of peace. How can he take a whip in his hands? How can he be so angry, so enraged, that he upturned the boards of the money-changers and threw them outside the temple? And he must have been afire; otherwise, he was alone–he could have been caught hold of. His energy must have been in a storm; they could not face him. The priests and the business people all escaped outside shouting, “This man has gone mad!” Christians avoid this story. There is no need to avoid it if you understand: Jesus is so innocent! He is not angry; it is his compassion. He is not violent, he is not destructive; it is his love. The whip in his hand is the whip in the hands of love, compassion. A man of awareness acts out of his awareness, hence there is no repentance; his action is total. And one of the beauties of the total action is that it does not create karma; it does not create anything; it doesn’t leave any trace on you. It is like writing on water: you have not even finished… it is gone. It is not even writing in sand, because that may remain for a few hours if the wind does not come–it is writing on water. If you can be totally alert, then there is no problem. You can handle poison; then the poison will function as a medicine. In the hands of the wise, poison becomes medicine; in the hands of the fools, even medicine, even nectar, is bound to become poison. If you function out of innocence–not out of knowledgeability but out of childlike innocence–then you can never come to any harm, because it leaves no trace. You remain free of your actions. You live totally and yet no action burdens you. Osho |
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| Anonymous
@trek79, “Oh God, Im dyin’ here!” |
| Ray Butler
@tigerturban, That is why people need each other, because they cannot always be aware of every factor because they are not perfect, if someone is not aware of something that you know and is indeed asking for insight into what he is not seeing, then what? Is it funny to watch him squirm on his failure? You sit back and enjoy it? You don’t just say someone is doing something wrong, you show them why, you tell them what they missed. You don’t come back later on and say you told them they were wrong, because no you didn’t, you just laughed in their face and left them to rot. |
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| Ray Butler
But considering there is the Kyoto protocol, that nations are signatories to, why isn’t there a similar pact for the elimination of poverty? Kyoto is actually against some of the big industries, but eliminating poverty is in everyones interest, especially the big industries, as it creates a larger consumer base. |
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