Britain to \"Storm\" ecuadorian embassy for Assange.
Damn this is pretty intense.
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@manimal, Since I’m interested in your suggestions, would you like to make a thread in how we can ‘fight’ the u.s.? I’ve been trying to answer this question myself for a long time and I can’t find one. It’s pretty difficult in my (perhaps nearsighted) mind.
@bongodeburrito, What exactly IS OUR MISSION?
You do realize that ruling with fear begets violence, right?
And ruling with violence is the dark ages.
Wake up man this isn’t the way to run a country.
I do NOT support our troops, I don’t give two shits WHAT your argument is, please watch and fulfill yourself;
@wareagles5o, lots of what you said I can agree with, especially about societal norms being the perversion of true sense. You’re correct; remember that this has little to do with the government. Government, media, corporations, they take advantage of it and cultivate it, but they did not seed it and they do not DO it. It’s like taking credit for the tomatoes your plants grew, the tomato grew it, it did all the work itself! You simply gave it the environ to do what it will, and helped it along. No differently with those you demonize.
You said “I dont want to live here, other older people dont really have a choice. Their stuck here with their family and other bullshit they’ve accumulated.”
You’re only affirming this to yourself. This is how people trap themselves, then blame others for the illusion of a trap.
I’m seldom one to tell somebody that they’re wrong, but frankly, you’re starkly wrong about this. If you release the hesitations and inhibitions that you sustain with these rationalizations and justifications, you’ll find that at all times are you completely free to do WHATEVER you want. Right now, you’re using your limitless freedom to tell a fairy-tale about limited freedom.
@ijesuschrist, Our mission is pointless at the moment. We’re interfering in a region of the world known as the graveyard of empires. Our problem is the way it is handled. Send a 19 year old kid out one day to attack an insurgent stronghold and then the next day he’s handing out water. Its mentally taxing.
No longer can we erase towns off of the planet like we did in WWII, and at this point, it wouldnt help anyway. Public opinion interferes with us getting the job we were sent here to do done. Whenever someone gets caught in the crossfire, which is a shame, it gets plastered over headlines nation wide. And when our guys get killed, its another day in Afghanistan. My job right now is mission support in the (for now) safe country of Kuwait. I carry the bodies of fallen Americans off of planes to be re-iced and then back to the plane to be sent home. Damn near everyday. And its tough. We dont like death. We dont like getting shot at. Half of us have kids and spouses. We’re not cold blooded killers. We’re a bunch of citizens who signed up to protect the ideals this country was founded on. We swore an oath to the Constitution, then to the President. We dont like this war. None of us.
We’re not even fighting a country. We’re fighting an idea. Ideas dont die. For every insurgent we kill, his brothers and sons rise up and join the cause. Mostly because our presence isnt wanted. And none of us want to be here. We’re following orders. We’ve seen first hand what you get from the news. Its our life, so you dont have to tell me about it, I dont need you to tell me about cognitive dissonance. Its something I live with. And I hate it. Its not easy flipping the switch between Airman LeBlanc and Sean all the time, but here I am doing it. I know what’s going on in my head. I spend enough time there to know it in and out.
@wareagles5o, Try to make a difference? Yea right, and my name is Santa Claus. Stating your opinion is not trying to make a difference, voting is not trying to make a difference, doing nothing is not trying to make a difference. Unless you’re actively working on defeating them, you’re not even trying AT ALL.
What the hell do you mean nothing can be done about it? That’s the dumbest, weakest statement I’ve heard in a very long time. Of course there’s lots that can be done about it, people are just too fucking lazy and irresponsible to take action. And that’s their own fucking choice. There is nobody else to blame.
And what do you mean corrupted to the core? Corruption come FROM the core. The core was rotten all along, people are being shitheads with shitty intentions, they form a nation and it “turns to shit” (it was shit from the get-go.) The only real function of authorities is to act scapegoats, so people have someone to blame instead of taking responsibility. If people have someone to blame, they don’t solve their problems, they give all responsibility (= power = freedom) to someone else and thus they’re easily herded. If people weren’t irresponsible lazy fuckwads then the problem wouldn’t exist.
If you’re not fighting, you’re not fighting. You’re just complaining, not doing anything about it. And you DO support their political actions, because you do nothing about, and you keep giving them the power to do so.
YOU are obviously the one who doesn’t understand how the nation works. It works the same way human (and animal) power structures have always worked. The less responsibility you take, the lower you stand in the hierarchy. It’s logical and sound, corruption only comes into play when people take part in this game but refuse to accept the rules. You no like, you no play, you go somewhere else. You have no rights unless you earn them, that’s how it’s always been and always will be.
@jackflash, I’m not going to attack Manning, because I believe he thought he was doing the right thing. In a way, I guess he was. But let me break down what I’ve seen him release, the things the media wont tell you and the consequences:
The helicopter attack on news reporters. Yes, its terrible. No, you cannot “clearly” see weapons. But the reporters were unauthorized to be there due to the fact that it was an insurgent hotspot. Those pilots were out looking for insurgents because they were expected to be there. The reporters were also not wearing the official reporting gear, the blue vest you see in the news. They were dressed like everyone else around there, and had a large object on their shoulder, which looks like an RPG from two miles away. No, the pilots did not have 100% visual confirmation of their targets before they fired, but in a violently vibrating helicopter, when you see something on someone’s shoulder, the first thought in your mind is “This might be a Stinger, I have no desire to get close enough to find out” Poor decisions were made, and it was handled.
PFC Manning released the names of native born interpreters and informants helping out the US. Then the enemy got a hold of that list and promptly killed them and their families. Now we’re having trouble getting help from the locals. I wonder why,
Also, this is being held under a courts martial. Military trials, while similar to civilian trials, have many radically different aspects. It can be argued that he never should have deployed and his security clearance revoked. That falls on his UDM and supervisors. There’s a good chance he could get off on charges if they can prove he was obviously unfit for the job he was tasked for.
Fighting, scheming, taking them down…. really, guys? Really?
Don’t you see the issue there? Those are not solutions to the problem, they ARE the problem, those things are exactly what the “evil rulers” are doing. 1+1=2 not 1+1=0. If there was a fire, would you suggest burning the fire away?
As I said earlier, the only reason some people have more power is because others give it to them. As long as people keep giving their power to people with questionable intentions, the people will get fucked over. But really, it’s just a deal that they agree to, so technically they’re not getting fucked over, they’re just getting what they signed up for.
And here’s the thing, society gives you many privileges in exchange for your servitude. Rights, welfare, and all that other stuff, the only reason these things exist is to woo you to their side. If you don’t want to be bossed around, you can’t have the reward, if you want the reward you gotta accept being a puppet. It’s that simple, you can’t have both because you haven’t earned them, it’s perfectly fair to be honest. No, none of these things are your birthright, that notion is preposterous, they are things you earn. And when the people offering it is a wicked scumbag, and you agree to the deal, so are you.
It’s like that classic satire comic strip where some politicians are standing on a plank over a canyon giving a speech, the plank is held in place by a bunch of commoners, they’re protesting and shit. That’s exactly how it works in reality, step off the damn plank and the fat cats fall into the canyon. Stay on the plank, and they stay. Push them off the plank, and somebody else takes their place.
The “bad guys” aren’t the problem, the masses are. “Fuck the system,” ” fuck society”… it should be “fuck the masses.” Oh and if you stay in that groupthink, dependent, system validating mindframe, standing on the plank so to speak, you ARE part of the blind masses no matter how much you deny it.
The “commoners” are the only reason the “elite” exist. The “bad guys” are nothing but a symptom of the retarded way people try to live.
@mercurial, I dont hate civilians. We arent made to hate them. However, the disrespect we get from some is very tough. The thought of “I went through hell over there, and now I’m home, I finally escaped it” just to be met with protest, spit and hatred. I do find a lot of people without the experience to bitch and moan a lot, but honestly, I would be in the same boat without the experience I have here.
The military is flawed, but we do have honor, you could say. We dont sell our values. Even if your values are out of line with the military, its something you have to work out yourself. Maintaining your identity is a challenge in this lifestyle. The whole point of basic training is to kill the parts of it that dont mesh with the military. For me, working against that just made them stronger. I’ve gotten a lot out of the experience, but for the first few months, it was pretty taxing on me. I didnt think I’d make it through while still being me.
We dont concern ourselves with corporations and whatnot. I’m not going to say we’re not without corruption and bureaucracy, but even a single McDonald’s store has that, though not as much. The government is corrupt. We’re a separate entity that falls under the government, so we escape most of that, especially at my level.
I hope to be able to bring some change, though I dont have any influence on the way it works, a lot of the people I’ve met are free thinkers and have an understanding of what’s really going on. We know what’s wrong, but we cant do anything about it. The laws in place for us would squash our voice before we could do anything.
I like to think of myself as a cool guy too, and clearly so are you, seeing as you didnt attack me while you still disagree with the military. You have a good one.
@ijesuschrist, Do you know why I joined? I wanted to be a paramedic. I wanted to help people. But I got put into a job where I play a crucial part in the death and destruction we create. But that’s how shit works, so I’m waiting until I can get out of this job and into a paramedic slot. I didnt join to kill. I didnt join to serve this country mindlessly while destroying other people’s lives. I work with locals here. Dont assume I think that all Arabs are stupid, violent people that want to kill us. I get along really well with a lot of these guys. And when I leave, I’m going to shake their hands and wish them a happy life. You like jumping to conclusions based on the military stereotype, dont you?
I did watch it. I got nothing out of it. Like I said, I know what’s going on in my head. I dont need someone explaining it to me in a more generic sense when I know exactly how it affects me.
@manimal, People have been trying to make a difference for a long time. Yes you are right the corruption is from the core i put it down wrong. And if its like that then the only way for the people to make a difference is by throwing the whole system out. Which will never happen because of the way things already are so if you look at it none of us have an argument for anything pertaining to the goverment. If you stay here your supporting that(which sadly yes i am doing for the present), personally I dont want anything else to do with it so ill get my nut from it (college education) and leave. Simple as that.
I am guilty of letting emotion get the better of me, you do list good reasons why the U.S. fired upon the reporters. But I do believe Manning did the right thing by getting hold of the video and sending it out. It is still a crime to fire upon those reporters, as I believe the U.S. military has strict rules regarding engagement in conflict which they duly broke. I believe it is completely wrong to try and brush these ‘accidents’ under the carpet and prevent them from getting out to the world which is why I believe Bradley Manning is a hero for getting this information out.
When the information leaked turns from war crimes to personnel information or whatever (tactics, troop movements, details regarding insurgents like you mentioned, etc…) thats when I believe it is wrong, as this is no longer exposing one sides war crimes but instead it simply becomes about aiding the opponent, or in other words treason.
@nightowl, How do you know it’s not just staged, the whole thing? I know it sounds far fetched, but we don’t really know what’s going on, do we? Why would the media be giving him so much support if they wanted to destroy him? It’d be wiser to shut up about it and not make such a big fuzz about it. But then again, it’s the media, it’s pretty fucking retarded a lot of the time. I’m not implying that anything is staged, I don’t believe it is, but it’s a possibility.
@jackflash, Exactly. It’s really fucking disgusting. We do follow a rule that we do not hand over criminals to countries where such things are likely to happen. But whenever the US wants someone, our government just hands them over. They only make this exception for the USA, and this far everyone who’s been handed over has been tortured and/or killed. It’s against the fucking law, but whenever the USA is involved our government is a bunch of asskissing bitches.
Oh, and there was never any evidence whatsoever of the so called sexual assaults. Which, again, normally means that the suspect cannot legally be penalized at all. But again, since the USAssholes are involved the law doesn’t mean anything apparently.
It’s truly sickening. But something tells me they won’t get him, it seems he might find his way to ecuador. And he seems like a bright clever man, I’m confident that he will figure out a solution. I sure hope so, the man’s a hero.
I am sorry if my comments came across as attacks as that was not my intention. I guess we will have to agree to disagree about the leaks. Though I do think it is terrible the treatment some soldiers get, protestors tend to take it out on the soldiers who have been fighting for their lives rather than the government or higher powers who are sending them into war in the first place. I do have tremendous respect for any soldier who has fought in war, it takes courage and bravery to be willing to die for what you believe is worth fighting for. That is something you do not see too often in today’s world.
Your still out there now right? What does a ‘normal’ day consist of?
@wareagles5o, They haven’t been trying much at all, that’s just make-believe. They did just like you, complained but didn’t take any action. That’s not even trying. And still, trying is not enough, one must do. “Do or do not, there is no try.”
I’m not supporting your nation’s actions because I’m not giving anything to it. And even if that was the case, I’m not complaining, and I don’t give a damn. So there’s really no reason for me to do anything more than I’m already doing.
It wouldn’t require throwing out the system, all it would require is for people to change their habits a little bit. It’s not complicated or difficult at all, people are just fucking lazy. And the notion that throwing out the system cannot be done under the current circumstances is nothing short of lunatic, of course it can be done. In a whole lot of different ways. Though that solution doesn’t really lead anywhere, you just replace one shithead with another, with some chaos in between.
Your college education won’t be worth much outside the system, just so you know. Well well, if that’s life you want to live, blaming others and following orders and then complaining abou it, then do so. Just know, that those of us who don’t, are living the fucking dream. And the only difference between us and the rest of the world… is that we don’t give our power away.
@jackflash, Manning was pissed off at the people he worked with and the military because he was treated as an outcast. Releasing those videos does show what’s really happening, but it also breaks the support back home. Things like that are the reasons that troops get spit on when they return home. The ROE varies depending on where you are and when it is, and even specific missions. I dont know what rules that mission was flown under, so I cant begin to speculate.
Its similar to if someone were to break into your house carrying a wooden replica rifle in the middle of the night. If that’s all I saw, I would fire without a second thought. And if I flipped on the lights and saw it was fake, I wouldnt feel like I had done something wrong. War is hell. And believe me, in incidences like that, the penalty you inflict on yourself is often worse than what you can get in court. I dont know if they feel remorse or not. But how do you think they feel, now that what they had to deal with on their own is now a subject of public backlash?
I just hope he doesnt end up in U.S hands, I hope he gets free and continues what he started. Fuck the U.S seriously it’s like when they get involved nothing else matters. Damnit I hate living herrreeeeeeeee.
@mercurial, War is a part of human nature, I agree. and as long as people harbor hatred, its going to happen. Lots of good things come out of war, though. Toothpaste, modern planes, nuclear power, the internet, radar. It serves its purpose. If tomorrow, everyone in the world laid down their weapons, I’d be ecstatic. A little worried that I’d have to find a job now, but still, I’d be happy as all hell. But that probably wont happen, so here I am for the next 4 and a half years.
@jackflash, No man, you’re good. You have your right to disagree, and I feel our exchange has been respectful.
I’m in Kuwait. This deployment has so far been a cakewalk, which is subject to change depending on what happens with Syria and Iran. I wake up at 4:30, we load up to convoy out to where we work, stay there for 8 hours, and make it back to base around 4:30. Its only an eight hour day.
I’m an Ammo troop. I’m responsible for storing, inspecting, tracking, maintaining and transporting anything on base that is explosive. We also build bombs and missiles. However, here I’m on a special tasking. I’m a TCN escort. In Kuwait, the government lets in foreigners to do all of the jobs no one wants to, kind of like illegal immigrants, only they’re legal. Since its cheaper for us to get them to do some work than fly in more troops to do it, we have contracts with them so they clean our bathrooms, empty our dumpsters, work on our AC and generators and cook our food. And I spend all day following them around making sure they dont try any funny stuff. So far, most of them havent and the ones that do have been taken care of. I’m not getting shot at (yet), I dont have to wear body armor (yet) and I only occasionally get a firearm. Like I said, easy as can be.
@manimal Wow your the epitome of someone who has been fed information about the u.s without talking to real people who make this fucked up country run. Im not going to comment on this anymore you have no idea what your talking about.
Wow. That guy must have really pissed them off. Had “wikileaks supporters” claim sexual harassment, and they’re storming around the world breaching peacekeeping boundaries to get him?
It’s a good thing for him that he has so much attention around him or he would have been dead long ago. They obviously want him BAD, and they sure wouldn’t do this shit just for any ole sexual offense allegations.
They are pissed as fuck at the marvelous gift of transparency he has been giving to the world, and don’t want a bit more of that gift given by him or by courageous like kind, so much so they’ll look like a county with third-world lack of manners (tainted with aggression) to do it.