Can we start a revolution?

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Avatar of Bobby
Bobby (@bobbylloydxd)    3 years, 4 months ago

Is there any way that we can bring light the injustices in our society and have them changed? Could we end proletarianism? Could we eradicate the system of perpetual debt? Could we force out the two party system? Could people be convinced that feeding the hungry is more important than wearing brand name clothes? That Mexicans are as important as Americans. That we should not be attacking people that sell drugs but instead attacking the system that makes people want to do drugs. That our neighbors aren’t dangerous, stupid, or malicious.

Could we spread pamphlets and posters that would grab peoples attention and help them to see that the way the world is going isn’t right? Would any of you be willing to help me?

I am not the best written individual I know, and I am limited by my proximity. But if we were to team up, and each use our skills and our locations to our advantages we could perhaps spread consciousness and start a revolution.

Please let me know if you have any ideas on how we could potentially get this ball rolling.

4 votes, posted 06.15.2011 at 9:54 pm
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Avatar of Adam Mac
Adam Mac (@emceedan)3 years, 4 months ago ago

A revolution that attacks our government should start with attacking our media. Freedom of the press is in our constitution as a check and balance. It wasn’t arbitrarily thrown into the mix. It was put there so the citizens had a watchdog on the government. It has been thoroughly infiltrated by motherfuckers who don’t have the admirable goal of reporting in mind, but goals of greed and lust for power and influence. The media is protecting the government when it was designed to protect the citizens.
I don’t know if it would be most effective to target media initially since it is a facet of the bureaucracy that keeps this destructive engine rolling. It begs the question – Do you cut off the tentacles or go straight for the head?
With such a small population on HE there needs to be one goal, one targeted area of focus. If enough attention is attained in that centralized goal, leaders will emerge to broaden the movement. A merging of communities that share our mindset should be looked into. Avaaz, TZM, et al.

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Avatar of Matt P
Matt P (@mkp843)3 years, 4 months ago ago

The internet is the way imo, spreading the right information, gathering strength in numbers with information and more importantly the solutions.. I barley watch tv anymore.. completly quit watching the news because like you said.. it’s garbage, msnbc for democrats, and fox for republicans.. all big money (puke) …

That’s a great way to look at it “cut the tenticles off or go straight for the head” … I think the head is the fact that our political system is all bought up, and corporations are ogres.. the tenticles, geez, prob a lot of them, but I think they all have to be addressed even tho even cutting ten of them off really wouldn’t change the overall system (to keep the analogy going :) .. It would be a full-time job for a handful of ppl no doubt, showing the problems, and presenting solutions.. but ppl need to be able to say, ‘I get that, and now I know what I can do about it’..

organize protests about lobbying, or w/e for that matter, network, make lists of boycotts for crap products, maybe because they come from sweatshops, or the ceo is big piece of shit, plenty of reasons, lot’s of things can be donw.. Facebook would actually be a great resource, that has sooo many ppl, and information could spread like fire, and people driven to another website, free internet marketed to it’s full power, betweeen us 3600, think how many ppl just our facebooks could reach to drive to another website… this community is a bit small right now on it’s own, I mean how many of us would go to D.C. on a given date for a protest, but how many ppl might show up if there was professional website like WAKEUP.COM, and all of us simply posted the link on our facebook, and asked for the link to go viral… you would probably have a lot more ppl at the protest… I think it has to be worthy of news coverage to make a dent… and again the information at wakeup.com would have to be great, not good…

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Avatar of Jonas
Jonas (@jonfonn)3 years, 4 months ago ago

@Alex and Matt, the Zeitgeist movement isn’t associated with Marxism or any other political system. Sure, it has a lot of qualities in common with Marxism, which is what makes most people (especially Americans) condemn the Zeitgeist Movement — in addition to the debunking of religion and conspiracy-claims regarding 9/11 in the first movie (which in fact has nothing to do with the movement itself). Anyway, it is explained in the oriantation guide (http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/The%20Zeitgeist%20Movement.pdf) and of course the film (http://zeitgeistmovie.com/) why this isn’t Marxism.

@Jordan, you might be right that we need a stepping stone in order to make the necessary changes. I don’t think so though. Give the current system some time and things will get worse. The unemployment rate will continue to rise, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer and an economic crisis will become permanent. When people see with their own eyes how shitty things actually are, they will be more susceptible to a paradigm shift like the Zeitgeist Movement proposes.

Of course, I could be wrong.

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Avatar of Jordan Lejuwaan
Jordan Lejuwaan (@jordan)3 years, 4 months ago ago

@Jonas, but that could be years away. Waiting for it to be bad enough for people to open their eyes should be the backup plan. I’d rather get something going and learn from this smaller movement to get to the larger one sooner and to be more prepared for it. I just don’t see a point in not starting now.

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Avatar of Jordan Lejuwaan
Jordan Lejuwaan (@jordan)3 years, 4 months ago ago

From the way this is going, we might have to move this to a more private forum haha. The gov’t is watching us! Oooooo

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Avatar of Jonas
Jonas (@jonfonn)3 years, 4 months ago ago

I’m not saying we should do nothing (although I realize how it might seem like I did, reviewing my last post..). Spreading awareness is really all we can do at this point. Everybody should see documentaries like Zeitgeist: Moving Forward, Into the Fire, GasLand, etc. Get people engaged. More people need to be aware of the situation in order to start a revolution, and the economy is going to get worse while this is happening.

As stated before, I don’t think it’s necessary to “prepare” for the Zeitgeist Movement; just jump right into it, I say.. Want a smaller movement? Join/start a local chapter.

That being said, your arguments most certainly seem valid, and I am not (yet) knowledgable enough to thoroughly counter them. By all means: Start something new! Do something!

Hmm, it seems I don’t completely agree even with myself here.. Oh well.
Bottom line: Things need to change for the better, and I fully support anything or anyone who can make this possible.

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Avatar of April
April (@sushisam)3 years, 4 months ago ago

@jonas agreed
but where to start….

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Avatar of daveb
daveb (@daveb)3 years, 4 months ago ago

changing the gov’t/external world is the same as changing our selves or fixing our houses or whatever . . . first ID the problem, then decide on the path to solve it.

I think part of the confusion in this thread is over what the political revolution will entail and what it’s goals are. unless of course the point of this thread is to hash out those goals.

does that mean starting a new gov’t? If so, what are the aims of the new go’vt and do we have to overthrow this one to make it happen? as much of an idealist as I am, that is tough for me to conceptualize. or, does it mean making the US population wake up and change certain things? If so, what is to be changed?

Smaller scale would be something like pushing for a living wage. it affects a really large group of people and cuts across sociological barriers so it’s easier to get millions of people behind it. plus any discussion of living wage will move into issues like health care affordability, rich/poor gap, and intrinsic value of work so it serves a dual purpose of tangible change as well as furthering discussion.

but, a living wage is still squarely in the context of the capitalist system and so I don’t think of it as revolutionary as much as evolutionary. when I think of a revolution I think of large-scale changes, like eliminating money and moving into a new barter-style economy, or fracturing the power of the feds and giving a lot more independence back to the states.

of course these are things that resonate with me, what about everyone else?

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Avatar of Alex
Alex (@alex510)3 years, 4 months ago ago

@all the Zeitgeist’s – I don’t think doing away with money is a good idea… not that it would happen. I mean in a perfect world, or with the right people you could definitely do away with money. For example, look up Kibutzes in Israel. But while people can write words and print paper you’re going to have some sort of money; which can be in the form of checks, contracts, and any other promises to return a favor/service in some way. Btw, thats all that money is… if a check or contract is a promise between two people, money is a promise between millions of people. Which is a GOOD thing when you take into account what the average person is like.

Just needed to share my opinion!

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Avatar of Exist
Exist (@exist)3 years, 4 months ago ago

I think revolution is fundamentally wrong for backers of free thinking as it suggest imposing one’s belief on others (thus going against the nature of free thought and choice).

Like I said, the option needs to be available but not enforced, material to inspire thinking needs to be available, but nothing that accentuates the blame of any one party. Sufficient availability and media attention would lead to a nation of free thinkers, and the eventually a government party could theoretically arise through that.

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Avatar of Alex
Alex (@alex510)3 years, 4 months ago ago

@Jonas — Yeahh we need to raise awareness, but just “raising awareness” won’t get you far, I think.

If we really want to make shit happen we need to outline specific goals and we need to really know exactly why we have those goals. We need to coordinate, VC, etc… If you guys want people to take your “movement” seriously, we need to make it look legit. And that means much more than just setting up a website. Then we need to take action; getting involved in local politics, printing pamphlets, offering speeches and rallies. As for money: fundraising and donations. And you fundraise and get donations only when you look legit.

@Jordan – I think your ideas are awesome. I also like what @Alec said about education reform.
@Jordan @Bobby – Are we talking about addressing problems in the world or only in this country?…

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Avatar of Alex
Alex (@alex510)3 years, 4 months ago ago

@Geoff – Instead of revolution, can’t we call this reformation? Btw ddnt we have a new party almost arise with the whole Tea Party movement

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Avatar of Em
Em (@emily)3 years, 4 months ago ago

Alex you’ve got some good direction :) Way to get to the point ;)

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Avatar of Jonas
Jonas (@jonfonn)3 years, 4 months ago ago

@Alex – I didn’t quite catch your argument about the monetary system. You say it’s a “GOOD thing when you take into account what the average person is like.”
Whoa, that’s a statement that needs to be clarified. What is the average person like? And what makes it a good thing?

About “rasing awareness”: Of course that alone won’t get you far, but the actions that follow are direct consequences of the new information people are being taught. If no one knows the need for change, no one will change anything.

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Avatar of Bobby
Bobby (@bobbylloydxd)3 years, 4 months ago ago

We are talking about making extreme changes to the US government through civil disobedience. I believe that if we were to succeed it would have worldwide effects.
I am happy with who I am and who I am becoming, I don’t need infinite advice on better things to do with my life than try to change this extremely oppressive system.
What we need are people that agree that we are ready for a change, and people that are willing to make it happen.

@Jordan, maybe we do need to move this to a more private forum.

I am excited for your guys stencils. Believe me that they will start popping up in all of the towns that I have influence.
I say we take the rise up domain name if it is available.

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Avatar of Matt P
Matt P (@mkp843)3 years, 4 months ago ago

I see no credibility in civil disobedience.. I see it in what Alex was saying.. and the only way your going to get enough ppl to rise up with civil disobedience is to wait for things to get bad enough, Jordan said he wants to do something now..

Alex pointed out that real change would have to come by going beyond the internet and a websit, you need to provide, speaches, pamphlets, local chapters, organization, have money ect.. And you have to have credibility to get it.. Not running around spray painting walls, and saying “down with the govenment”.. I just don’t see that at all.. not that it’s a bad idea, I didn’t mean it that way, my point was I don’t think it will be as effective

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Avatar of Alex
Alex (@alex510)3 years, 4 months ago ago

@Bobby — Spray painting walls is fun, and very public displays of civil disobedience makes you look cool, very rebel like, very very American. K, you got attention from the local media. News reporter asks you Why are you causing traffic and making everyone late for work? What’s your answer?

because “oppression,” “the government” “global warming” is not going to cut it. Trust me, I live in NYC and we have a shitload of people “protesting”, being “civilly disobedient”, and “raising awareness”. I mean you also see people walking around in anything from disney costumes to hookers. Sometimes its hard to tell the difference between the former and latter.

not trying to bash on you at all!! I genuinely want to know what you would answer a news reporter if you got their attention??

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Avatar of Alex
Alex (@alex510)3 years, 4 months ago ago

@Bobby — Spray painting walls is fun, and very public displays of civil disobedience makes you look cool, very rebel like, very very American. K, you got attention from the local media. News reporter asks you Why are you causing traffic and making everyone late for work? What’s your answer?

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Avatar of Cameron
Cameron (@cman759)3 years, 4 months ago ago

The hardest part about changing america is what it has become. It is fucking GIGANTIC, and there are soooooo many people here. Creating a coherent picture for a new- state, government whatever you want to call it- that everyone is satisfied with, just is not possible. I honestly think the best goal that we could have, is to break the US into smaller co-operating territories that are governed separately. American’s have a lot more in common regionally than nationally. But that’s more for later. The hardest part about making this actually happen, is having us nationally agree revolution is necessary. There are a ton of people out there, who still fill the US is the bees knees. Granted most of these people are older, but still. I think the key here is just helping the common man realize that, GDP has been increasing for 20 years, without the common man seeing the fruits of those labors. The CEO’s have been just pocketing the difference, because money is the motivator. and as long as money is the motivator, the common man will keep getting screwed. “Capitalism did this.”-Micheal Moore

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Avatar of Jordan Lejuwaan
Jordan Lejuwaan (@jordan)3 years, 4 months ago ago

The stencils/graffiti would be a way to show how ubiquitous the support for the movement is across the US. There’s a story that Adam Kokesh (who’s been trying to do this type of thing for a few years now, and was recently arrested for dancing in front of the Lincoln Memorial — google that if you haven’t seen it) talks about in the video below that goes like this:

2000 years ago a Roman senator said ‘We should make all of the slaves in Rome where a white arm band so they can be easily identified.’ Another wise senator said ‘No, if they see how many of them there are, they will revolt.’

Obviously for this to be successful, it needs to be huge. People will not act if they think they’re among the majority. So our priority should be revealing the huge number of people that are discontent, and them bringing them together through action.

@Alex, I would say we’re trying to show the American people that they are not alone in being unhappy with the way this country is being run. Our mission is to provide opportunities for people to publicly and safely show their discontent. It is our hope that Americans will come together en masse and reclaim what it means to be American: to have an relentless demand for liberty and freedom.

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Avatar of Jordan Lejuwaan
Jordan Lejuwaan (@jordan)3 years, 4 months ago ago

The website will have all of the downloadable pamphlets, fliers, stencils, etc. Plus blog articles, anonymous comments and relevant new stories about the government. The graffiti should have the URL right under it. The site will legitimize the defacing of public property (which I don’t see as being a bad thing considering the intent behind it).

HEthens, if you have any ideas for URL’s, plug them into your browser and hope for a DNS error. Anything else means that they’re taken. Also keep in mind there are many other domain extensions besides .com — .org | .us | .me, etc.

The best one I’ve come up with so far is WakeUpU.sa (.sa is ironically the extension for saudi arabia, but you can use any international extension). It’s not perfect so I’m eager to hear what you come up with.

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Avatar of Alex
Alex (@alex510)3 years, 4 months ago ago

madeaware.com
slogan “Wake Up!”

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Avatar of Michael
Michael (@mike)3 years, 4 months ago ago

“The people in power want people to feel like they can’t affect change.(…) The more hopeless, downtrodden & cynical people are, the more pliable they are and the more they can be abused.(…) It’s not going to happen from above, we are the change that we’ve been waiting for. Anything worth a damn that’s ever happened on behalf of the people has always come up from the people and forced itself onto the power above.(…) I see all these things as a real opportunity for people to get involved and to learn that they have a voice and to actually use that voice to institute change.” -Mark Alan Ruffalo on 9/11

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Avatar of Keith Thomas
Keith Thomas (@ktwitch)3 years, 4 months ago ago

I love the ideas floating around here.

In my opinion, we need to isolate what separates us from the masses and then try to bring that trait out in them. Maybe the name of the movement or the graffiti or whatever is more important than we think. I like ideas such as “Stop sleepwalking through life.” “Turn off the auto-pilot.”

As long as we’re always honest and passionate about the movement, it will succeed. The only time that good doesn’t prevail is due to fear or laziness, I’d say.

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Avatar of Piers Wightman
Piers Wightman (@pierswightman)3 years, 4 months ago ago

Hi All, I have got too much to say on this matter and havent got the time right now. I will come back with my top 50 gripes about corporations, injustice and greed shortly. :) Count me IN.

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