Current state of Agriculture – and the future.

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Anonymous (@)    1 year, 10 months ago

As requested, I made a post about sustainable food paradigms, how they work, and what is currently wrong with our paradigm. It is a long one! I am not in a comfortable seating position, so perhaps it will reflect in the post (maybe a bit choppy).

Please feel free to comment here or there. This post is accurate, and if you believe it to be exaggerated or false, I would be glad to provide the resources to change your mind.

http://learningasart.blogspot.com/2012/10/current-and-future-state-of-agriculture.html

0 votes, posted 10.01.2012 at 7:46 pm
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Anonymous (@)1 year, 10 months ago ago

@alltoohuman this is for you. Please donate your first born.

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 10 months ago ago

So, I’ve made this post in response to a request to all too human, but I think its applicable to all of us. Its important as it addresses the current (outdated) paradigm of food, and goes into sustainable practices that are necessary.

If you could please read the blog post, and not only comment on the content, but also the structure of the post – (too long, fragmented, choppy, etc) – I’d appreciate it as I want my posts to be easy to read, convincing, catchy, and most of all, appealing to the eye (not a big “holy shit no way I’m going to read this” deal).

Thanks

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Mr. Arbiter (@snaysler)1 year, 10 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, I have some thoughts after reading your blog post, which I liked btw :)

I think that increasing the price of food would solve SO MANY problems. It would not only make the agriculture/livestock business something that people could run profitably and without government subsidy, but it would also touch upon another VITAL issue that you didn’t address, but I want to bring up because I think it is related. Population control is an obvious necessity considering the trend of rampant population growth that seems not to be slowing down. The reason for this is that we are always subject to the dichotomy of supply and demand with food. In times of little food, population doesn’t grow. In times of plentiful food (present day america), there is always a population growth. Subsequently, there is then an increase in production to make sure that there’s “plenty” for the new population size, and a subsequent growth in population to match that, and so on. However, if we were to make food more expensive in general, then thanks to capitalism, we could emulate a “food shortage” this way. Of course this sounds good on paper, but then there’s always low income people who would be fucked by this system, and government subsidy is again an issue…Hmm…Socialism time, anybody?

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 10 months ago ago

buy from local organic farmers. :) forget GMO

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Mr. Arbiter (@snaysler)1 year, 10 months ago ago

@tigerturban, The problem is that not enough people will ever care enough to do so such that it is a ubiquitous trend. And without that happening, the system isn’t going to change much. I wish everyone lived by your words, but they simply never will. So, it’s not the individual living outside the system that solves the problem, it’s the politically powerful individual changing the system for everybody–that needs to happen.

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 10 months ago ago

@snaysler, oh! there are quite a few movements gaining popularity all over the world, Here is the outfit I am involved with in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada: http://www.e-sage.ca/ This is also part of a greater paradigm shift.

Depend on politicians?? sheesh!

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 10 months ago ago

@alltoohuman, I don’t have time to read all of your sources (I’m familiar with most of them, though).

I agree that it is case-by-case, but the problem is, with GMO there are so many complications and complex dynamics that one would need to study. the GMO plant would never be released publicly due to the amount of studies that would need to be conducted. The obvious solution, to me, is to simply keep them in the lab, they are a novelty to me. The 35S promoter gene, I believe, is one of the only safe GMO’s available, but again, the implications can be broad – the ineractome (proteins / metabolite interactions) is so complicated, we cannot possibly understand all the implications of farming a plant with a foreign gene insert… But I admit, I am subject to the stigma of the word “GMO”.

I really tried hard to find the source that states a population of 8-9 billion or beyond could be sustained by permaculture but I couldn’t locate it. Granted I was only on google scholar. The main impetus for realizing this is the case is that it has been hypothesized that the united states alone has enough food to feed the entire world, problem is shipping, money, and wastefulness. If you take this hypothesis and apply it to the fact that permaculture can harvest more produce per acre than conventional farming with less energy input, it should be apparent that the world’s agricultural land mass could easily support double (if not 5x our current population) with food.

But food wouldn’t be the biggest problem with a population that large, of course…

P.S. I read the article on not expanding current ag. land… This is the type of thing that makes me lose my temper. This all seems so obvious to me, and then someone comes along and says this type of analysis is bullshit. I explode. I assume people are capable of coming to this conclusion on their own, but I get pissed at ignorance, or failure to connect the dots and come to this kind of logic. Its unfortunate that this type of rationalization isn’t public opinion or knowledge.

@snaysler, I’m not in agreement that increasing food prices would entail a population deterant, nor that it should entail one. I think education would take care of that (me and my wishful thinking). Rather, increasing food prices would give more VALUE to food, and hopefully a more rational decision when purchasing. A 1 dollar cheeseburger from McDonalds? How is that possible? Well…. its not as good a thing as McDonald’s customer’s would like to believe.

Food is what you’re made out of. Literally. To give food the “last priority” on your shopping list is something I think needs to be turned around. We need to really praise good, healthy food. Not glorify cheap, greasy mouth-stuffing poison.

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 10 months ago ago

good example, 20,000 lbs of Fish + 70,000 Vegetables per 1/4 Acre … Portable Farms Aquaponics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCCN4nq7BlQ

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Sorlaize (@sorlaizehe)1 year, 9 months ago ago

from Paul Chefurka-

The crisis of civilization is not simply a convergence of technical, environmental and organizational problems. These are symptoms that are themselves being driven by a philosophical and perceptual disconnection so deep that it is best understood as a spiritual breakdown. The disconnection goes by the name of Separation.


An urgent, voluntary reduction in world population might give us some slight chance to avoid a few of the worst effects of the converging crisis. Unfortunately, it takes a long time to reduce a population, and time is the one thing we don’t have any more.

some quotes from Paul Chefurka about humanity’s modern problems;-

http://sanity-death.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/some-quotes-from-paul-chefurka-about.html

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@sorlaizehe, I concur

Lynn McTaggert talks about this misperceived separateness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tnktYdBrSQ
Lynn Mc Taggert on Quantum Physics 1 of 2

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@alltoohuman, Was that directed at me?

I don’t know what you’re talking about quantum mechanics tells me that my cat is both dead and alive when I’m not looking at it.

ZzzZzZz

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@alltoohuman, Many of the great spiritual teaching traditions also talk about this misperceived separateness of society in general. I not a “joiner” of any of the pseudo-sciences either, I too am wary of those who are “selling meditation”, Like any active seeker i “take the best and leave the rest”. I do actively encourage people to take up their own personal meditation practice, obviously.

Besides, we all know that a healthy diversity of opinion is necessary to counter the myopic arrogance of those who would be king. :)

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@alltoohuman, i found some good stuff here: http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/

…for example.

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@alltoohuman, Really? Didn’t penrose write the Road to Everything or something? Its sitting on my bottom shelf taking up space till I have the ambition to tackle that. It sounded like a pretty solid book, though. Why don’t you just take psychodelics already, you’ll thank me later.

@tigerturban, didn’t watch the video or look at the link cause I’m pooped. Meditation grounds a man to that which is important = nothing. You are training your mind to not give value to things, thus freeing yourself from so many psychological constraints.

Wow talk about a fucking thread derailment lol.

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@alltoohuman, Heres the deal with psychodelics. Read up on how indigenous tribes perceive them and how they respect them as more than just a drug, but as a gateway, something beyond. A mental medicine, a doorway to the “spirits”.

I have schizophrenia, dementia, anxiety, paranoia, and depression all trickling through my family genes. I don’t think that schizophrenia is GENE X = Schizophrenia. I believe that GENE X + Environmental stress/experiences = schizophrenia. A sound mind will have a better time conquering schizophrenia than a weak one, but of course I have no idea, and am talking out of my ass. I could tell you I was pretty damn close to psychosis a few times though (self-induced I must say, by romanticizing the problem out of proportion.)

For the longest time I feared schizophrenia from psychodelic use, and then it occured to me that I of course don’t have it, nor am I going to get it. But rather fear can create anything you can imagine, in a negative light.

Read up on them until you feel the comfort, rather than the fear. Although I have no agreement with the hypothesis that DNA is a snake or some kind of cosmic ladder, I highly recommend the book “Cosmic Serpent” as it gets to the core of indigenous use of ayahuasca. You really become entranced by the ability of these tribes to see beyond what we see, to hear things we can’t hear, and to communicate with nature on levels not really applicable to science.

What came out of psychodelics for me is:
Nature is so powerful. It is everything.
We as humans lie to ourselves and each other far more than we care to admit.
Our entire lives are sometimes dictated by factors outside of who we are.
We have the potential to be a beautiful species, coexisting and all that beautiful hippy shit, but we put up barriers, walls, and no matter how hard we try to keep them down, the walls get rebuilt, over and over.
Then, not necessary for psychodelics, but rare when sober; you will see the true nature of reality. That everything is connected, and separation between ideas, objects, boundaries – they are all constructs. There are no buildings, or cars or people or plants they are just continuations and movements of matter… a mind blowing revelation, truly destroying the ego when on psychodelics. Sometimes beautiful, sometimes horrifying, doesn’t matter. End result is understanding what is important.

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Sorlaize (@sorlaizehe)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@tigerturban, This separateness issue- do you have any more links on this? search phrases?

I see this as a ‘fundamental existential philosophical insight’.

I found myself thinking about this issue of our species/civilization in a kind of ‘metaphysical philosophy’ way before I found those quotes I posted. And I call it individualism.. a more scientifically accurate word than ‘separation’ haha. But, separation’s a more communicative word to use

and, well, I posted this stuff because.. well, it’s like the nature of questions, isn’t it? Everyone’s asking what life is, and I find myself reframing the problem to explain it. In a different article that the previous ones posted quotes from – by Paul Chefurka – Agriculture is cited as *the major key factor* supporting all our skyrocketing developments;-

http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Politics.html

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@sorlaizehe, interesting excerpt? “5) THE REALM OF ENLIGHTENMENT – Those who go beyond the fourth realm permanently are born with a rare genetic gift of naturally greater consciousness. The fifth realm of consciousness, in my opinion, cannot be reached by effort alone. Living in the fifth realm as a permanent resident, not just as a temporary guest, is the truly difficult task for students of meditation. To reach the fifth one must journey upwards, not just outwards, and this higher plane facilitates a continuous state of superconsciousness. The fourth can be described as an ocean of light that is highly projective. The fifth realm is non-projective and is beyond the ocean of light, beyond the thought process, and beyond the human mind. Subjectively, the fifth feels like an infinity of warm and comfortable darkness that softly envelopes the mind ocean. To put it in other terms, in the fourth realm you feel like a ball of consciousness floating in the depth of space. When entering the fifth realm, you literally feel that you are the depth of space itself, the Void. When you remain in the 5th realm permanently, you are enlightened, a Buddha.

The Total Awareness method described in Meditation Handbook is a means by which students of meditation who reside in the fourth realm can gain reliable glimpses of the fifth. A glimpse of the fifth is called a satori, a temporary peak at enlightenment. Many students confuse the blissfulness of the third and fourth realms they experience during meditation sessions with satori, which is a deeper phenomena. Even to experience an authentic satori is relatively easy. To live in satori, the fifth realm, is relatively impossible. It is almost like the difference between visiting Hawaii and actually owning Hawaii. The fifth realm is the only truly comfortable level of consciousness where one finally feels at home. Until the fifth is attained, we live as strangers to ourselves because we have not yet come home to our own essential being. Until the fifth we do not know our “original face,” and thus we suffer.”

http://meditation-handbook.50webs.com/realms2.html

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@alltoohuman, Peer pressure

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stonedragon (@stonedragon21)1 year, 9 months ago ago

im glad yyou guys are all worked up about ogms as they call them in europe. here in france everyone is afraid the americans and monsanto will come here and ruin our beautiful gardens.
the state of agriculture for me is this
i have a big poly tunnel. still picking tomatoes, eggplant, pepper zukes and pumpkins now, end of sept. also lots of figs, walnuts and hazelnuts to be gathered. chestnuts in my woods.

what can i say. life is simple in france. mushrrrooom season coming up soon.
and harvest of special weeds and flowers…..

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ELI var namnet (@manimal)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@stonedragon21, Monsanto already has a strong grasp on France. Their products are more or less the norm in major parts of France, according to some documentaries I saw some time ago. Same goes for a couple of other south European nations, which is sadly where most of the agriculture is.

Monsanto or not, GMO or not, it doesn’t make that much of a differece, industrial food is industrial food no matter who makes it, it’s still shitty food. One who cares about their health does not eat that stuff.

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@alltoohuman, You know, thinking you’re going to go crazy and fearing that does you no good, right?

Wise words from a man across the internet to me when I thought I was getting schizophrenia:

“Why the fuck do you do this to yourself man?”

I realized I was doing it to myself…

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@alltoohuman, “Taking LSD was a profound experience, one of the most important things in my life. LSD shows you that there’s another side to the coin, and you can’t remember it when it wears off, but you know it. It reinforced my sense of what was important—creating great things instead of making money, putting things back into the stream of history and of human consciousness as much as I could.”
― Steve Jobs

“LSD was an incredible experience. Not that I’m recommending it for anybody else; but for me it kind of – it hammered home to me that reality was not a fixed thing. That the reality that we saw about us every day was one reality, and a valid one – but that there were others, different perspectives where different things have meaning that were just as valid. That had a profound effect on me.”
― Alan Moore

Cary Grant, who took LSD more than sixty times under the therapeutic auspices of Dr. Mortimer Hartmann and then Dr. Oscar Janiger, had this to say about his treatment in 1959:
“All my life, I’ve been searching for peace of mind. I’d explored yoga and hypnotism and made several attempts at mysticism. Nothing really seemed to give me what I wanted until this treatment.”

“I have been born again. I have been through a psychiatric experience which has completely changed me. I was horrendous. I had to face things about myself which I never admitted, which I didn’t know were there. Now I know that I hurt every woman I ever loved. I was an utter fake, a self-opinionated bore, a know-all who knew very little. I found I was hiding behind all kinds of defenses, hypocrisies and vanities. I had to get rid of them layer by layer. The moment when your conscious meets your subconscious is a hell of a wrench. With me there came a day when I saw the light.”

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Anonymous (@)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@alltoohuman, perhaps your just being a bit wimpy

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stonedragon (@stonedragon21)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@alltoohuman, im not sure how this discussion went from agriculture to acid.
but i think it is your choice to trip out or not and i recognize and respect your choice. there are times and places for these kind of drugs and i had a very bad mescaline trip once wheni was sixteen which i wouldnt wish on anyone. if you dont think you can hack it dont even consider it. there are so many ways to find clear light now.
dont let anyone think you are a wimp.

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stonedragon (@stonedragon21)1 year, 9 months ago ago

@manimal, getting back on track here. thanks manimal for the comments. i guess you are right about the monsanto situation here. i hate to think it is true and i should join some local agitation group and make a fuss. but like you say it is bigger than us, what can we do except grow our own. and join local seed banks. kokopeli. that is a great organization check that out. they collect non ogm seeds and distribute them world wide. you can order seeds online from them.

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