Does the vastness of the universe prove there is no God?
I just watched this video which shows how massive the universe is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr7wNQw12l8 It raised many questions as you can imagine. One of these questions i thought to myself was being as there are billions of planets and stars in a galaxy and there are countless billions of galaxies in the universe, we have to assume that we are not the only form of life. I mean due to the sheer uncomprehensible size of the universe it would be nieve to believe we are the only form of life. Therefore i thought as humans are so insignificant in the universe, why would God care about what me or you did and if we believed in him etc. Religious people preach about how God knows each one of us personally and cares for us, but is this just wishful thinking as surely we mean nothing to him, as we are like a speck of dust in the universe. Do you know what i mean? I’m athiest by the way.
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@Alex. Concepts about god are indeed to be found in mythology, aswell as philosophy. But arguments for God and against God, and everything that it implies (the problem of Evil, the soul, dualism, creation etc etc) is by my knowledge only to be found in philosophy.
I would start with Plato and the allegory of the cave. It;s a nice introduction :)
If you have blind faith in a religion without an experience of God, you are silly.
If you are blindly atheist without an experience of god, you are also silly.
It took time and effort to find God from looking within, and because of this; over the centuries, religions developed into something that didn’t really need an experiential journey to believe in, and instead, something that everyone could believe in, without actually going on a journey to find. Atheism sprung from thousands of years of ‘no proof’ existing, due to the lack of churches saying ‘go find god yourself first!’ which would be authentic, and instead saying ‘Force yourself to pretend that god exists or you will go to hell for eternity.’
Eventually most of the world religions became physical things, we’re always told to look ‘outside’ and ‘into the world’ to find god, rather than look ‘within ourselves’ which is pretty much the starting point.
Also the word God is skewed into being this omnipotent creature that dwells everywhere in the physical world, however we ourselves; as humans, are the ones that assign meanings to things we see in the physical world, meanings to thoughts that materialize in our minds and meanings to emotions as feelings within the body. In essence, everything we see is a construct from within ourselves.
If that’s not god itself, then what is?
@Tom, “*Also someone answer me this: If God is omniscent (all knowing) why did he make me and others Athiest if he knows i will go to hell yet he is supposed to love us?*”
I reject a personified explanation of god specifically because it causes too much confusion. I prefer the Hinduism versions of Gods, and Brahman.
I look at the way people argue and talk about religion much in the same way people talk about music or movies, and others celebrities. The reason religion and this topic causes much more drama then the others is because it directly goes for the big questions, whereas a movie will look at one particular part of the human experience. You use logic to disprove god, but my personal logic tells me there is a god. Of course, logic is also a flawed thought process too. Logic is imperfect, along with everything else that it is to be human.
I personally don’t think it matters if you believe or not in god, because its a concept you cannot ignore if you truly care about existence. The concept is there regardless of belief. Like love. Everyone has a different definition of love, but we don’t all argue if love exists.
The higher dimensions create the lower dimensions, not the other way around. It’s all a big distraction though. Based on the idea that if god does exist, and he made it so there is atheists and theists, then I really doubt it’ll matter much if we argue about it forever. We could just move on to better things though, and agree to disagree. We’ve got plenty of moral issues to take care of first. ;)
I don’t know who are these “we” people, but not being objective can surely cripple your process. If a point of view matters, then all points of view matter by deducting the non-relevant and non-rational.
It’s pathetic to say what is NOT.
So, show people the full picture.
With big questions like these, I like to counter with “Does it matter?” There is no way we can ever know, and if one day we can know, then excellent! Otherwise, it doesn’t matter…. No sense in worrying or arguing about it.
@Martijn My dad has a degree in philosophy, with a specific interest in ancient philosophy. So I’m fairly familiar with plato, seeing as how I grew up hearing the cave instead of genesis. I was wondering if you could point me in a more modern direction? Not as familiar with the new guys. ;)
Well, technically, it doesn’t matter how huge the Universe is, God could have a personal relationship and sit down for tea every week with every single being on every single planet orbiting every single star.
He is God after all.
I wonder, when did the Flying Spaghetti Monster become a metaphor for an absolute? How many of us try to say the 11th dimension (or higher) doesn’t exist, because I can’t prove a flying spaghetti monster made up specifically for an argument doesn’t exist?
FSM, was made up for an argument. God was made up as a concept to answer some questions.
People should study mythology more..they might understand a few things about the bible and things like that.
@Phil, whats your take on Hinduism?
“We” is beings who have a limited view on everything, seeing the full picture is what you do, not what I do for you, you show it to yourself. I am showing that there are possibilities we always neglect because we have this boundary called limitations and we have words like impossible.
@Alex-”the bigger the Universe only means more probabilities, so the probability a god exists goes up due to its epicness.”
Actually the number of possibilities could be said to be infinite, making the probability go down. The odds (probability) of rolling a 1 on a 20 sided dice is lower than the odds of rolling a 1 on a six sided dice.
@Keenan-”If you are an atheist, what evidence would you accept in order to prove the existence of god? if you are religious, what evidence would you accept in order to prove the non-existence of god?” Powerful questions. I like it!
How can you deny the fact that there is some indescribable, unknowable and extremely powerful force that gives life to the innumerable beings in our universe? How did we come here and how were we born? What is it that creates life, consciousness, mind? These also cannot be proven yet there is no denying the fact that they exist. God may or may not be some omnipotent being but nobody ever denies that something eternal exists beyond our transient existence.
If you believe there is a god, you will see God in everything. But if you don’t believe in a god, you will see proof of that in everything. So one person could look at how vast the universe is and say there is no way a god exists. While another person could see the same picture/video and marvel at the wonders God created.
All spiritual teachings point to the same truth about existence. It is just different characters all playing the same roles, teaching the same absolute truths. You don’t necessarily need to subscribe to any specific religion in order to be someone who is spiritually guided, nor do you have to be spiritually guided to know the deep underlying truths about life.
To say it is just one way or the other is identification with a mental label (ego, form, etc.). The teachings of all religions are all sacred, yet outdated. They were stories because humanity was incapable of understanding the meaning of life with the technology that they had available (yeah… like we come even close now. haaaa!). Religion and science could basically point to the same truths by using different terms. (what’s a word anyways? ponder that one..)
We may never know. What we need to do is stop trying to prove and disprove whether or not God exists because it would be arrogant to think that someday humans could stumble on his doorstep and ring the doorbell saying “HEY GOD! What’s up!?”. That or at the very least we need to stop being so sensitive/critical of your own or others views on it and accept it for what it is. All spiritual teachings from indigenous to Christianity are beautiful in their message. We just managed to mess this all up because well.. we’re human. :)
I will leave with this quote by Eckhart Tolle in his book “The Power Of Now”. Very powerful book if you are looking for something thought provoking and engaging.
“The word God has become empty of meaning through thousands of years of misuse. I use it sometimes, but I do so sparingly. By misuse, I mean that people who have never even glimpsed at the realm of the sacred, the infinite vastness behind that word, use it with great conviction, as if they knew what they are talking about. Or, they argue against it, as if they knew what it is that they are denying. This misuse gives rise to absurd beliefs, assertions, and egoic delusions, such as “My or our God is the only true God, and your God is false,” or Neitzche’s famous statement “God is dead”
Peace and love to all!
I think that believing in the existence of God and proving his existence are two different things.
One can believe in many things, but belief only does not make them exist in the world/ universe, it only makes them exist in our mind, and therefore we start to see proofs of their existence and look up for arguments to support that.
Existence means different things to different people. For positivists for instance, the only things that exist are those that can be measured.
For fervent Christians, muslims, religous people that is, the existence of God is unquestionable, they are lead by their feelings that can substitute rational thinking at some point.
So, determining what existence is, is a tricky matter for which we can probably never find an answer.
Belief on the other hand, does not need proofs. I believe that music is capable of building peace in societies. I don’t need to prove that, since it gives meaning to what I do with music. I think the same applied to people who believe in God. It doesn’t really matter if the essence of what they believe in can or can not be proved as long as it gives meaning to what they do.
Now, to answer your question about the vastness of the universe and how that somehow proves the unexistence of God. Well, I don’t think it proves anything other than itself. We only know parts of the truth, pieces of what is, so we can’t possibly prove the existence or unexsitence of something based on something else , the essence of which we can not totally grasp.
How did we come to realize that the universe in infinite?
How can we prove that this knoweldge is not partial?
How can we be sure that we we know is real? that is reflects reality?
What is reality ? what is existence? How can we know that that which is real is real, and that which is not real is not ?
@Martijn, I agree with you on that. Philosophy shows you better arguments for either side, but I feel that if you were looking to obtain a better or more broad definition of what “god” is, then to use mythology. And you should always at least have a definition before you argue something. haha.
There is just as much evidence that there is god, as there is that says there isn’t god.
The scoreboard is even.
Which means you get to decide which one you believe. Believing in god/universe brings happiness to my life, therefore i believe in god.