I watched this doco a while ago and it really made me think differently about the way we look at animals.
I am wondering who else has seen this and what your opinions are. Is it over the top or truth. I guess it depends on where you live and how you consume your meat. I think everyone should watch something like this so people are making an informed decision. thoughts?
I cant get on the site from work so i cant post a link but google earthlings if you have never heard of it.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
-On the environment. Overproduction of corn: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/22/AR2007112201442.html?sid=ST2007112300601
-On economy. Overproduction of corn and soy: http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/you-are-what-you-grow/
-On morality. The death rates of agriculture for vegan diets versus with cattle included: http://ethik.univie.ac.at/fileadmin/user_upload/inst_ethik_wiss_dialog/Davis__S._2003_The_least_Harm_-_Anti_Veg_in_J._Agric._Ethics.pdf
Also, I never supported the caged-in slaughter of animals. I think that is horrible.
My only real stake in this argument is to have all of the facts correct. I know that if the world were to become even MORE dependent on corn and soy, our land would be devastated more than it already is.
Here are my concerns, in a concise list:
-Insure that ALL of the issues are fixed, not just part of it
-Humane treatment of animals
-Safeguarding the o-zone
-Protecting the land, water, growth, etc from industrialized agriculture
-Insuring the survival of our current population without slighting the other conditions on the list
What I think is ok:
-Eating meat while under the given conditions
-Eating vegetation under the given conditions
Just like wolves don’t seek to torture their prey before eating them, we definitely should NOT be advocating the current method for consuming meats. When I say humane, I mean the animals can live their lives in an open, free environment and be consumed on a much smaller, more natural level. The instant gratification nation that we live in is too blinded to recognize the fact that ‘instant’ means a lot more to a living being than to a TV show.
My core is that eating meat is not a bad thing. Basically I only care about making sure that people who need food have it (as well as are nutritionally sound with what they have) and that ALL sources of food are safe for everything involved, not just part of it. Everything else, from the sick way we manufacture it all to the destruction that industrial-scale production of everything we consume is bad.
Now where are we at?
This is a pleasant discussion and I appreciate that. as background: I grew up on a farm. growing and eating my own veggies as well as raising/hunting/dressing my own meat. I’ve come to believe that all life – plant and animal – is worthy of our respect. I’m no better than the blueberry, the pumpkin, the fish, or the cat. Getting eaten by a bear while fly-fishing would be a particularly poetic way for me to go :-) When I’ve asked this question before it hasn’t been properly rec’d, but this may be the one discussion where it will be addressed without sanctimony:
How do you draw your personal lines, whereby animals (in the case of pescatarians, some animals) are in one way or another not to be eaten, while other forms of life are OK to produce and consume? Is it as simple as “has a CNS”? I’m honestly not trying to be inflammatory . . . if it’s simply a choice based on health with no morality, that’s a different thought. I spouted my soapbox thoughts on that topic in the Responsibility to be a Vegetarian thread.
personally, this has always been a curiosity for me. I honestly don’t know how to decide what living things have a sense of “quality of life” and which ones do not, so I simply avoid the decision entirely by making sure that whatever I consume – plant or animal – was well-treated and leave it at that. I’m open to new ways to think about this that are more nuanced, my proverbial cup is empty and waiting to be filled.
well, half-empty anyway . . .
@cubilone, I write veg*n because that covers both vegans and vegetarians without singling out either group. “People who are ready for it will do it no matter what, no-one’s opinion on some table will have any influence either way, apart from some potential bad blood.” And that is where you and I disagree. I have seen change. And if someone is ready, how do you know? How do they know? Unless you talk about it ;) I honestly believe it to be very similar to campaigning. You know how all the local politicians put signs all over every single median? They just want to get their name out. The more times you see their name, the more likely you are to vote for them when you get to the booth. The more times you meet someone who says that they are veg*n the more likely you are the become one when the time is right.
you said “there is actually a new, test-tube meat that was created from a stem cell of a cow.” which i had heard about before. the only thing that gets me with this is money is being wasted on this type of discovery when there are seemingly more important things we could be spending time and money researching.
we do not need meat to survive, we have the ability to choose. I dont believe we have the right to take the life of something purely for enjoyment. I am not sure how i feel about eating meat that has lead a full life and died naturally. I dont really like the thought of eating flesh these days but i dont think i would object to someone else doing it if it was from an animal that died of natural causes.
@daveb, “How do you draw your personal lines, whereby animals (in the case of pescatarians, some animals) are in one way or another not to be eaten, while other forms of life are OK to produce and consume?” I understand where your coming from with that actually although I dont have the answer to the question I do think it is a valid question to ask.
@lytning91, I disagree, check out the work of Dr. McDougall if you are interested in the science. I don’t see why anyone would need to take supplements unless they are not eating enough fruits and veg. You cannot get the same vits and mins from meat that you can from fruit and veg. There are no supplements you need to take if you stop eating meat.
Overproducing of vegetation is irrelevant if I understand where you are coming from correctly, in fact it supports the veg*n cause. Let’s say a cow must eat 10lbs of corn to produce 1lb of meat. *HYPOTHETICALLY* While you could eat 1lb of meat and be satisfied for 1 day, you could also eat 2lbs of corn every day and be satisfied for 5 days. Therefore, it is required that less food is produced to feed more people for a longer duration.
My goal is to do the best *I* can. I disagree with the school of thought that says if two things are bad it doesn’t matter which one you choose because they are both bad. I subscribe to the school of thought that says is two things can have negative impacts I will do my best to choose the one that has the *least* negative impact.