Has anyone ever felt the tension that accumulates within oneself to the level where our ego can become somewhat ‘defeated’? In the sense that it retreats, or shrinks in power over the person. I am not implying the ego is evil, wrong, unhealthy. This question is directed towards the possibility that the voice can somewhat give up on itself with extreme influence. For example, being in the presence of another’s awareness to the point that ours becomes permanently affected / shaped.
This process takes place over the course of one’s lifetime, and in some recreational situations, but I am curious of how it works within a short term period.
@cognizantelephant, This is one of the hardest things to do – to learn to let go of your ego, or “sense of self.” We all want to see ourselves as independent from one another. We all want to be right, and we will go to great lengths to be right. So much so that we often end up hurting ourselves and others in the process, all because of our own ego.
I just try to accept the fact that I can’t be 100% sure of anything. I try to be open to new possibilities. It is not easy, because we have been brought up our entire lives to believe that we must prove our worth to other people, that we must be good enough for others. We become afraid of rejection. We let fear dictate our happiness.
It’s a tough thing to do. I feel you 100%.
@chodebalm, I agree this is very difficult, as just continuing with our lives re initiates the ego that we try to understand. It seems as if we need a positive influence and cannot see our lives any different without it.
Schopenhauer said something about how this state of mind free from ego is difficult to maintain, which really sparked my curiosity in this. I’m wondering if there’s a point where the ego is completely gone and never comes back? But that sounds a little drastic
The point where the ego surrenders? That’s quite easy to reach, people do it all the time, mostly unconsciously.
The actual breaking point though, that’s taking it a lot further, and I don’t recommend going down that path. It does more harm than good, I know this from experience. You don’t want to push past that point, you risk going insane.
Ever see one of those really droney people, you know the ones with really “dead eyes,” who seem to be “lost in there somewhere.” Well, that’s a case of pushing past the ego breaking point.
If you shatter the ego, you shatter the mind, and that’s no good.
@manimal, Well, I think that drugs that cause ego loss can drive you mad. Look at someone like OSHO though. Years and years of meditation practice is effective at ridding the ego without driving you mad. Although, I don’t know that it disappears fully.
@beyond, There is different levels of communication as you know. Like listening to a talk of Eckhart Tolle, under heavy ego you can completely miss the point of what is being discussed. But after listening for a while you can feel that your ego quiets, more presence can be observed in his person and in yourself. It can then spread throughout all areas of your own reasoning without intently trying to see anything different, you just feel a more comfortable knowing of things. That being said I’m learning to not get emotionally toiled over senseless thoughts, which is something I couldn’t say maybe 6 months ago.
@cognizantelephant, I see. Although I don’t know what you mean by heavy ego. Super ego, feeling like a know-it-all unconsciously? Missing the point of what is discussed doesn’t have much to do with someone’s ego, rather than someone’s interest and paying attention. Ego means self and the meaning of self can’t be generalized in my opinion. As far as getting “insane” or “mad”, experts are constantly arguing about what is normal so there is literally no such thing that can be a permanent label, everyone can be called mad or insane because of an act or because of feeling overwhelmingly stressed for a long period of time, because everyone has the ability to judge. So if you’re breaking down your ego in a sense to just stop and listen to someone else’s thoughts rather than yours, you shouldn’t really think that the ego is a factor. It’s simply your ability to learn or believe to see a different perspective. The ego is still there making you understand actually, it’s neither evil nor good just like you said.
@beyond, Heavy ego was used in this sense as an extreme, to demonstrate how being flustered with thoughts from different points of time, or the collective unconscious, and how it can have even the slightest impact on how you accept a new piece of information.
I disagree however, the ego does have a place in understanding someone else’s point. If the person has trouble paying attention, what are they paying attention to? Their ego! Concluding it is not the ego having any effect but the persons ability to learn is somewhat unfair reasoning. The ego being the collection of thoughts picked up from various periods of life ultimately creating that person you interact with. We are all subject to experiencing these emotions, no one is invulnerable.
Permanent was poor choice of words on my part, I should have left it at shaped
@cognizantelephant, I don’t get why the ability to learn is unfair reasoning. And I already said that ego helps you understand. You can’t have a fair judgment if you don’t learn from what you’re paying attention to. And you’re not really paying attention if you’re prejudicial. To me it seems like the fairest reasoning.
@manimal, saying that shattering the ego implies shattering the mind is an extreme oversimplification. The ego is much easier to rebuild.
It’s my strong opinion that the majority of egos deserve to be torn down, they are mostly false interpretations of how we individually exist in a make believe objective universe, held together with bullshit. You’ve got to see yourself from outside your self, that’s when you’ll know what’s really there.
@cognizantelephant, I get what you’re saying about being shaped by your internal voice but I don’t really get your question… if your voice is misguiding you, I’d say that’s a sign it’s high time for some soul searching.
The labeling of the person is unfair in that it denies the source of the ability in question- to learn. The persons sense of self, or ego can either help or hinder their ability to learn. I feel these things are connected, not separate functions of the mind
@splashartist, @udntnome, There’s a huge difference between resting the ego and breaking the ego. Most cases where people talk about “ego death” or “ego loss” all that really happened was the ego let go and stepped back, it didn’t go away or break.
That’s a good thing.
Actually breaking the ego is completely different, and not a good thing. You can get good results out of it if you do it right (I know from experience,) but if you fuck up slightly you wreck your mind, and even if you do it right it’s a horrible experience.
Breaking the ego does break the mind, because the ego holds the mind together. That’s its purpose. The ego is not a bad thing at all, it’s a very good thing, and everyone has one. However, being under the control of the ego is a problem, but the ego itself isn’t.
Breaking the ego is risky stuff, and it can be (and has been and is being) used for truly vile shit.
Don’t hate on the ego, don’t antagonize the ego, but don’t let the ego control you. Take good care of your ego.
There is nothing to break, ego is a fucking sound or a picture as in writing; (there is only) Flowing. There is no one outside of Flowing to stop the stopping of flowing…FLOWING, Experience the experience of the experience of the experience (ad infinitum) Flowing.
@noimadsuperlove, Classic trauma/dehumanisation method.
RSA, drugs (including scopolamine, dmt and 3-meo-pcp,) sensory deprivation (blindfold, painkillers, ear cups,) and some other stuff like that. Took roughly a month.
Wasn’t me doing it though, it was carried out by two of my friends a bunch of years ago. Crazy stuff, I shouldn’t have done that.
@splashartist, Meditation doesn’t break the ego, it’s more like balancing, harmonizing, resting, and such. Meditation does not harm or remove the ego, it just smooths it out, so to speak. You can “hit the reset button” with rigorous meditation, but it’s just like hitting the reset button on your computer or whatever, it’s soon up and running again. But that’s not a bad thing, it is in fact a very good thing. The ego is a good thing.
That “pure bliss” many dedicated meditators get is really nothing more than a lack of dissonance, basically meaning that your ego is centered and harmonious, instead of scattered and clashing. Perfect harmony of the ego.
Although it can be achieved in many ways.
But actually breaking the ego is completely different than the effects of meditation. I know this from plenty of experience, I’ve done the ego breaking stuff and I can also meditate to the “no-mind” state. But really, you can never get rid of the ego, unless you get lobotomised.