Enlightenment

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Kniphofia (@thomaschong)    2 years, 1 month ago

So much of what we do is controlled by our subconscious, the feelings we have, the decisions we make, the way we live our life.

I think true enlightenment is the merging of our conscious and our subconscious. A perpetual awareness of what we do and why we do it, the real mastery of our live.

This is our purpose as humans, not mastery of the world, mastery of ourselves.

2 votes, posted 07.07.2012 at 12:10 am
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PRAKASH (@lesterxp)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@thomaschong, In reality there is no mind, there is no body there is only life, awareness of SELF and Love. all the rest is a dream, perceptual illusion and abstractions of that perception. Dreams within dreams.

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Kniphofia (@thomaschong)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@lesterxp, The outside world may not even exist, we may not even exist. Existence is a dream.

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PRAKASH (@lesterxp)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@mercurial, Of what reconciliation do you speak? are they conflictual? are they not one and the same? you are not part of the universe, the universe is a part of you. There are no schisms as self, SELF, lower self, higher self, no self. All these are mind labels. It is true that the mind traps you the mind will set you free. But the sooner you give up all knowledge of the slices of reality you see theorized everywhere the sooner you will see the one undifferentiated reality.
@thomaschong, I can only quote however I cannot remember the author I only know it is well commented and argued about in advaita :) “Nothing is real. Brahman is real. All is Brahman”

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PRAKASH (@lesterxp)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@mercurial, what you believe has nothing to do with reality. In reality there are no beliefs only what is, without opinions or mind labeled abstractions. You are not this nor that – NETI NETI. You have no definition of your “ultimate” self as you say because the mind cannot grasp it. Reality is outside the mind. Self is not experienced , SELF is the merging of the observer the object of observation and the act of observation. All is one, one is in All.

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PRAKASH (@lesterxp)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@mercurial, As I said your belief is irrelevant. I merely use words. Don’t fall for them. These are only tools to be discarded as soon as they consume their utility. Two dreamers speaking of each other’s dream in their own dream :))

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Daniel (@qwuakeup)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@thomaschong, I think true enlightenment is the realization that the conscious and unconscious are already one, the only thing separating the two is just our mind.

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PRAKASH (@lesterxp)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@mercurial, There is nothing to understand :) Those who think can understand but not realise. Those who don’t think need not understand or realise. Realisation is the mind discarding itself.

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PRAKASH (@lesterxp)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@qwuakeup, consciousness is of the mind. unconscious is a label for a slice of consciousness. Unconsciousness cannot be experienced. Mind is in the way of enlightenment and the way to enlightenment.

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PRAKASH (@lesterxp)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@mercurial, hahahahaa, dude I really think we should open a debate discussion. It starts to be really amusing round by here :))))

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Daniel (@qwuakeup)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@lesterxp, My mistake I was meant to write sub concious.

But just discussing the points you made, consciousness isn’t of the mind, the mind is of consciousness. Consciousness is what we truly are, and everything else is just illusion. The only thing that exists is consciousness. Unconsciousness is simply forgetting what we really are, forgetting that we are consciousness. That is to be asleep. To wake up isn’t to learn anything, it is simply just “remembering” what is already deep within you. Mind cannot lead to enlightenment, mind is what is actually separating everyone from enlightenment. The mind is only a tool, and it needs to be used in the right way.

“All wrong-doing arises because of mind. If mind is transformed can wrong-doing remain?”
“A mind at peace, a mind centered and not focused on harming others, is stronger than any physical force in the universe.”

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PRAKASH (@lesterxp)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@qwuakeup, If there was no mind would have been consciousness? If it was not for you was there anything? Hint : awareness of consciousness.

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Daniel (@qwuakeup)2 years, 1 month ago ago

Yes many people do achieve the state of no mind and can maintain 100 % consciousness. Mind isn’t consciousness, consciousness is what is AWARE of the mind. That’s where the word “awareness” comes from.

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Daniel (@qwuakeup)2 years, 1 month ago ago

If it was not for me there wouldn’t be anything indeed.

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Kniphofia (@thomaschong)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@qwuakeup, I love this explanation.

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PRAKASH (@lesterxp)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@qwuakeup, and who is aware of consciousness? :)

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PRAKASH (@lesterxp)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@mercurial, just found this for us :)) “If you understand, things are just as they are… If you do not understand, things are just as they are.” ~Zen saying.

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Daniel (@qwuakeup)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@lesterxp, Consciousness is the only truth, there is nothing aware of consciousness, consciousness is just aware of it self.

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aneesh (@aneesh)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@thomaschong, I second you on this. It makes you wonder about whether there is such thing as free will: we have no control over our unconscious, and even limited control over our conscious minds; our actions dictated by past memories and conditioning (of which we also had no control); our bodies grow and then decay against our will. Hell, we didn’t even get to choose whether to be born in the first place! And then we say, ‘I built this’ and ‘I did that.’ I haven’t met a single person who can define the word ‘I.’

So it begs the question now… WHO is to have free will? Who am I? – the only question ever worth asking. Personally, until that question is answered, I will see that my only purpose is to find the answer. All else is secondary – finite and therefore unsatisfying.

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aneesh (@aneesh)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@mercurial,

“If you believe in an “ultimate” self you are a Brahman, if not you are Buddhist. So you said you can’t define yourself by a title, yet clearly you adhere to Brahman.”

It doesn’t matter what you believe. Belief is of words only – superficial and clumsy. Brahman, Truth, Enlightenment is all beyond the mind, words or thoughts. Buddhism may say there is no self and Advaita may say that self is Brahman, there is no difference. And since neither you nor I can say what Brahman is, I see no point in discussing the differences.

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aneesh (@aneesh)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@mercurial, Often two people get into an argument over different words and concepts when really they were trying to say the same thing.

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PRAKASH (@lesterxp)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@aneesh, @mercurial, I can only quote here from a dear master Lao Tzu:
“The great scholar hearing the Tao,
tries to practice it.
The middling scholar hearing the Tao ,
sometimes has it sometimes not.
The lesser scholar hearing the Tao,
has a good laugh.
Without that laughter,
wouldn’t be Tao.”

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aneesh (@aneesh)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@mercurial, There is. The difference is that you are talking in concepts and theories, speaking after reading many sutras, you’ve decided that a certain one is right and now trying to spark some kind of argument. I’m saying that words might differ but the ultimate truth (whether you want to call it Brahman/Atman/Buddhism/Self/ or whatever) is one and the same. Under the illusion that your view (written out in words and ideas) is right, how can there be any bridge between us so we can better understand each other? I see your view as my view – irrelevant, neither right nor wrong while you’re ready to get caught up in words and prove me wrong. It’s like mistaking the finger for the moon: what you say and what I say will make no difference because the words are just tools to point to what is, they are not IT! Come off it brother. It would be like a religious war, where both sides ultimately have the same faith – God – except one side call him Allah and the other call him Jesus and therefore claim the other is wrong. Just stupid.

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PRAKASH (@lesterxp)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@aneesh, And that is how wars and suffering began between humans. All saying the same but not in the same words. And when form is more important than essence you get today’s society everyone here seems to have a problem with. We are all travelers on the path/way towards our very self. Knowledge of yourself is knowledge of the universe. “Every day I am learning more and more about less and less. I will eventually know everything about nothing”. Pointless dreamer arguments. Illusions talking to illusions. What will be achieved by arguing? :))) more arguments. There is no right and wrong. So why even bother?

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Martijn Schirp (@martijn)2 years, 1 month ago ago

Trying to mix all religions and beliefs in one big kettle doesn’t do justice to the different nuances. Allah is not the same as the Christian God. Atheists absolute of science is not the buddhist absolute of emptiness (and emptiness of emptiness).

@aneesh, What exactly do you mean when you say absolute truth?

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Martijn Schirp (@martijn)2 years, 1 month ago ago

@lesterxp, Even when there are no absolute right and wrongs, collective arguments aren’t pointless. We still have to debate whether it is right to put someone in jail, do nothing at all, or give him a lethal injection when he has murdered someone. To just brush it off as, oh well, it’s all illusion anyway doesn’t do justice to human beings. And btw. If everything is illusion, then it’s all we got, we better take care of it. (and, of course, thinking everything is illusional then thinking that is illusional too).

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