So much of what we do is controlled by our subconscious, the feelings we have, the decisions we make, the way we live our life.
I think true enlightenment is the merging of our conscious and our subconscious. A perpetual awareness of what we do and why we do it, the real mastery of our live.
This is our purpose as humans, not mastery of the world, mastery of ourselves.
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@mercurial, There is. The difference is that you are talking in concepts and theories, speaking after reading many sutras, you’ve decided that a certain one is right and now trying to spark some kind of argument. I’m saying that words might differ but the ultimate truth (whether you want to call it Brahman/Atman/Buddhism/Self/ or whatever) is one and the same. Under the illusion that your view (written out in words and ideas) is right, how can there be any bridge between us so we can better understand each other? I see your view as my view – irrelevant, neither right nor wrong while you’re ready to get caught up in words and prove me wrong. It’s like mistaking the finger for the moon: what you say and what I say will make no difference because the words are just tools to point to what is, they are not IT! Come off it brother. It would be like a religious war, where both sides ultimately have the same faith – God – except one side call him Allah and the other call him Jesus and therefore claim the other is wrong. Just stupid.
@thomaschong, In reality there is no mind, there is no body there is only life, awareness of SELF and Love. all the rest is a dream, perceptual illusion and abstractions of that perception. Dreams within dreams.
@aneesh, I do feel the objects of the search are fundamentally different. I don’t think the perfect embodiment of capitalism, the wall street banker for instance, are really looking for emptiness.
I do understand that every religion is at its core the same drive, the Will to Truth. But to say that they all arrive at the same conclusion is oversimplifying their differences (and these differences are fundamental, I believe). If they did, they would preach the same truth. But they don’t.
I also believe there is no fundamental truth, no absolute perspective where you see the same as God. I believe we will always be bound by culture and day and age. We have to find our own personal truth, and that is for everyone different.
Like chasing the tail. I have lost interest. I read this whole thread and took nothing out of it. Maybe I’m the confused one, and yeah I have my personal problems of non-motivation, addiction, and complacency, stuff I need to man up and grow out of. But I feel like I understand what you’re all talking about and I more or less approach life with this understanding but it yields no fruit until I have balanced the notion of emptiness, silence, stillness (female side of the coin) with the masculine, aggression, anger, action. It’s what I’m missing out on I feel and it’s the void I see everywhere I look. There is only defunct masculinity. Tools. It’s heavily apparent in females too. They repulse me and lead me to focus on the feminine aspect of life.
I know not one man. I know not one woman.
@aneesh, And that is how wars and suffering began between humans. All saying the same but not in the same words. And when form is more important than essence you get today’s society everyone here seems to have a problem with. We are all travelers on the path/way towards our very self. Knowledge of yourself is knowledge of the universe. “Every day I am learning more and more about less and less. I will eventually know everything about nothing”. Pointless dreamer arguments. Illusions talking to illusions. What will be achieved by arguing? :))) more arguments. There is no right and wrong. So why even bother?
@danfontaine, Although chasing tail gets boring we always go back to that endless game with ourselves, and we hold on to the memories of all time’s in which we caught it just to let it go in the end ;p I say next time and every-time after that we try to do our best to hang on just a little longer… Maybe the tail will surprise us, and if not at least we are becoming pro tail catchers yo!
@martijn, Of course. The objects of desire differ from person to person, there is no denying that. But isn’t freedom from that desire the ultimate goal, in the end? A wall street banker works hard his entire life to make the money that he can eventually retire with, no longer in need of profiting. Full satisfaction would be a better way of putting it than the word emptiness. After all, few of us strive just for the sake of striving. There’s always a result in mind, a vague imagination of the future, which we hope will solve our problems and will reach perfection. Consciously or unconsciously we are searching for an absolute.
For the average person, death is that absolute. No man ever looks forward to it. But an enlightened person or Buddha who perceives through the eyes of what they might call the universal consciousness, no longer bound by the confines of an ego-personality, doesn’t see death as the end at all. He just sees that as slight shift, a change in transportation. That’s the appeal, at least for me, of enlightenment. To reach that goal, naturally you will start to break down concepts and ideas, social conventions and knowledge, to try and see through the whole game of life. Questioning everything is, I think, very important.
I agree with your last point (not to say I have disagreed with anything you have said). To say there is no fundamental truth is a very wise thing to say. It doesn’t go against Hindu philosophy to say that because, and this will sound contradictory, Hindus believe that the absolute truth is unfathomable.. At least by the human mind. It can’t be perceived. So in a way, you have arrived at the same conclusion! Only that Hindus and Buddhists will say that there is a way out of this finiteness, of pain and suffering, life and death.
@mercurial, Burning plastic produces pollution is a fact to just you only. It isn’t the truth, it is just the truth to you as long as you believe it.
Having said that, you can easily argue and show me evidence and scientific articles that burning plastic does produce pollution, but this is just now their truths and your truths, as long as you believe it.
Imagine a baby born with a mutation where the carcinogens of burning plastic cure him of all illnesses, then your truth isn’t fact, it only implies to you. Hence Perception.
Trying to mix all religions and beliefs in one big kettle doesn’t do justice to the different nuances. Allah is not the same as the Christian God. Atheists absolute of science is not the buddhist absolute of emptiness (and emptiness of emptiness).
@aneesh, What exactly do you mean when you say absolute truth?
On the first one I have no idea… Though I do think perception has a lot to do with life and personal realities. If there is no truth… I still enjoy creating
@mercurial, Of what reconciliation do you speak? are they conflictual? are they not one and the same? you are not part of the universe, the universe is a part of you. There are no schisms as self, SELF, lower self, higher self, no self. All these are mind labels. It is true that the mind traps you the mind will set you free. But the sooner you give up all knowledge of the slices of reality you see theorized everywhere the sooner you will see the one undifferentiated reality.
@thomaschong, I can only quote however I cannot remember the author I only know it is well commented and argued about in advaita :) “Nothing is real. Brahman is real. All is Brahman”
@aneesh, Great reply, I enjoyed reading it, thank you.
The ‘end of desire’ idea makes sense to me, at least it did for over two years. Lately I have been doubting it. First, is it possible to be human and not desire? I feel like desire is a drive that can over-shadow other, just or more so important drives, which you can spot at the typical banker. (And I don’t want to personalize this, I don’t think the banker does anything bad per se, just that he embodies a system that pushes him that way, which in some ways is a bad system/capitalism). But I don’t think having no desire, at all, could ever work, while still stay interconnected with others. No man is an island.
Second, I do feel there are a lot of people striving for strivings sake. I;ve been a poker professional for three years, it almost completely parallels banking, and while money played a big role, the game itself was reason number one for doing it. It was playing for playings sake.
Third, this giving up of the desire presupposes an agent that is capable of giving up something that constitutes this agent. In other words, I don’t believe the rational mind is master in it’s own house. Therefore the paradox of the desire of giving up all desires still manifests desire. Hence, I stopped thinking/needing/desiring ‘enlightenment’ since it’s impossible.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Hindus still believe in an absolute, do they not? They use a absolute frame of reference to decide what is moral and what is not, what happens to us when we die, what reality really is? I am of the opinion, and probably here we differ, that this absolute is not in reality, out there, independent of our own minds, but is itself empty. Without the social constitutive constructs, nobody would think of it like that, but now they do, it still works as an absolute to them. It doesn’t exist, yet it moves people.
Got it all wrong, mates.
Why is it called enlightenment? Because “the lantern is lit.” What is this lantern? It’s not some spiritual shit, it’s actually in your brain. They call it the “lantern of Osiris,” the “all-seeing eye of Lucifer,” the “lamp of God,” the “eye of Horus,” the “heavenly eye,” the “door of perception.”
To light a lantern, you burn oil. It’s the same principle with the “lantern” in your body. Again, this is not about some spiritual shit, the “lantern” and the “oil” are both physical and REAL. This oil originates from the claustrum, is separated and refined by the pineal and pituitary glands, these are later further refined at the semi-lunar ganglion. After the ascent through the pneumogastric nerve the “oil” reaches the Medulla oblongata where it is “burned.” To do this, all it takes is to let the oil reach the lantern, and then light it. Easy as cake.
This is what causes REAL enlightenment. It’s the same principle as “raising the kundalini” or “cycling the lesser Kan and Li” or “running the microcosmic orbit.”
Enlightenment is not a mind thing, it’s PHYSICAL. Then it spreads to your mind. All those dumbfuck dipshits who meditate their brains to mush and then think they’re enlightened are wrong. All they did was convince themselves fully of their beliefs and learned to not give a shit about anything else, the natural reaction of this is “bliss.”
Because, as they say, “ignorance is bliss.”
All this spiritual mumbojumbo about “enlightenment” is really NOTHING BUT THE PRACTICE OF IGNORANCE. There is no enlightenment involved, just ignorance. Enlightenment is a physical phenomenon, and it takes only a month or two to get it done.
Why do they call it enlightenment? Because your senses will be more awake than ever, everything will seem lighter and more clear. And you will develop this so-called “third eye vision” which also sheds more light on just about everything.
You have been led astray, by all those spiritual goofballs who just wanted the pride of being a guru. Don’t be a fool, please come to your senses.
@lesterxp, Even when there are no absolute right and wrongs, collective arguments aren’t pointless. We still have to debate whether it is right to put someone in jail, do nothing at all, or give him a lethal injection when he has murdered someone. To just brush it off as, oh well, it’s all illusion anyway doesn’t do justice to human beings. And btw. If everything is illusion, then it’s all we got, we better take care of it. (and, of course, thinking everything is illusional then thinking that is illusional too).
@noimadsuperlove, Good response but I just don’t know. I desire solidarity and I’m convinced in not being foolish. I have felt it and it feels like being God. I need that if I want to accomplish my life’s ambitions. I don’t want to live in limbo.
@mercurial, what you believe has nothing to do with reality. In reality there are no beliefs only what is, without opinions or mind labeled abstractions. You are not this nor that – NETI NETI. You have no definition of your “ultimate” self as you say because the mind cannot grasp it. Reality is outside the mind. Self is not experienced , SELF is the merging of the observer the object of observation and the act of observation. All is one, one is in All.