Why doesn’t this topic exist? No one cares? No one has an opinion? I suppose it comes up all over the place so there is no shortage of debates about it.
Anyway, I wanted to start it because I may have realised something, you can scrutinize its relevence for me. Also you can discuss the issue.
I got to wondering, does the Catholic church recognize the marriage between a Buddhist couple? Maybe they do and maybe they don’t, but our countries laws do. I mean, sure anyone who moves to a new contry must legally formalize their marriage just so the couple can have their rights in accordance. But does the Catholic church impose their religion upon this Buddhist couple? I think not, I think it says somewhere “Freedom of religion…” I could be wrong. So why is one marriage, that is exceptionally different to the Catholic rule, allowed to pass under the law of the nation untouched, yet another singled out?
Of course this all does not simply apply to Catholicism, but all Christianity, infact it includes Judaism and Islam also, as these religions are so similar (haha, yes I just said that).
Okay, Buddhists are great people, gay people not so much, right? How about a different example. What is more detestable than homosexuality, it’s a hard one…I’ll go right past Atheism and over to Satanism, (because Atheists may well be better people than gays). Is a marriage between two Satan worshipers recognized by the law? Haha, I think it just might be, yesiree. Hot damn, Satan worshipers are allowed to get married and the Church does not influence the government and the legal system to resist the marriage (I repeat for emphasis) between Satan worshipers.
Anyway, I’m done for know, rant you later.
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This topic doesn’t exist because It’s been discussed to death! It’s been debated over and over; and nothing is really gained from it.
Do what you will, don’t do the things you’re against if you don’t want to, don’t hurt anyone in the process either.
Simple laws of the world.
Hate crimes towards gays are not condoned by law, but what is condoned by law is that gays are lesser in a sense, that they do not deserve the rights that others have. This sends a message to all those haters that, though we do not condone your actions you are right that these people are offensive to society.
But you are right about all these other human rights problems around the world, but the trend currently is that not all humans are equal, if one lot of human beings are dehumanized then it is the first rung on the ladder to other humans being dehumanized.
@billmasterson098, The sad thing is that people are forced by their situation to do things they would not really want to do, and then other people treat them like shit because of it. People generally do not want to be prostitutes, they may like sex and they may need money, but it doesn’t mean they want to be prostitutes. It is just an opportunity and really it is society that that makes life like that.
To want to be gay and have heaps of sex is a choice, but prostitution isn’t, the fact we do not have a decent life as standard means that we have to do things to build a decent life, we have some choice as to what we are willing to do to build it but ultimately we have no choice, we have to build it one way or another.
Never really cared much on this issue.. is being married that big of a deal for 2 men or 2 women? is stopping it that big of a deal for anyone alive? If it is.. I could care less because there are bigger issues in this world.
I mean who’s the person that even told them no? Who were the first gays to try and get married and were told the government doesn’t want them to? How I see it is they would just go gets married like anyone else and no one would think twice about. Of course Christian law is going to disagree with it, they also disagree with abortion which the government says is just fine. I want to know where it originated.. And how the government decides when they are going to stick with the church and abide by them or decide to go completely against the church.
The more gays, the better, cause the less competition for me. So let 90% of you guys become gay and I will not have to worry about finding the right woman to live with.
Seriously, I do not care about people their ethnicity and/or sexual preference, as long as they do not disturb me in my daily life.
But to be honest I do not like the gay men that have to show the rest of the world how gay they are, with their gay behaviors all the time. But in the same way I do not like the hetero men who are whistling at women on the streets all the time, and who are acting like women are only some kind of sex objects.
So once again, I do not care about once sexual preference, but I reject some kind of behaviors, which can be seen as typical gay or hetero behaviors.
And as long as the gay people respect my sexual preference, I can respect theirs.
Very long one, but some good nuggets, I think :)
One of the key points about most religions is the discipline over desire argument, this is a topic that is very open to personal interpretation. The idea is that if you indulge desires your rational thoughts can be affected, but since when do Theocratic institutions want their people to think rationally?
But this is a good point, it is not just for sexual desire (lust) but it encompasses a number of the other sins also, greed, envy, gluttony and sloth. Lust being predominantly about sex, over indulge and you find it harder to resist inappropriate situations, like adultery and even rape.
As with greed being taking an excessive amount of wealth, especially that you leave others in horrible situations in life so you can have that wealth. Envy is linked to the “Do not covert your neighbours property” commandment, that when you acquire a liking for objects you become tempted to steal them or behave in ways unbecoming in order to get them.
Gluttony being the desire to eat or drink too much, covering food and addiction, like drugs and alcohol. While sloth is pretty much just being lazy, but can cross over into hygiene and a number of issues that are not pleasant.
Wrath and pride are a bit different, wrath is related to fear, anger and hate, Pride can be in disgust or prejudice, superiority, competitive aggression, etc.
Basically these things are how we can lack control over ourselves and they can result in a number of problems for us and others, so the idea is discipline or self control over these compulsions. But each of us will inevitably have our own threshold as to how much is acceptable and where we should apply it.
Basically I think that any situation that could harm others because of our desire or fear, this is when we have to be wary of disciplining them, but this is not always easy to know, so others may have a stricter policy of controlling yourself as much as you can. But I tend to think that denying yourself certain pleasures can be as dangerous as overindulging them.
You may get horny and behave inappropriately toward someone, when you denied yourself a wank, but then indulging masturbation too much may cause you to be aroused more often, so it is a balance thing as well as discipline.
People make this argument about gays, they should control their desire and not have sex, but it isn’t that bad really. We all have to observe this self control, know when we can indulge and when it is becoming inappropriate, but none of us have to be monks either. You cannot force gays to be monks in matters of love and consent because ultimately you yourself do not have to be a monk, you have your own standards.
I think there are social standards, like not allowing your fears and desire to hurt others or to control others in issues that have no real threat of hurting anyone. There is a line, when harm is caused is the line, but until then we really have our own judgement and discipline to depend on, we shouldn’t be controlled by others just because we may do something wrong, that we cannot be trusted to behave appropriately, that is insane.
So we have our duty to society, our responsibility to our own wellbeing and behaviour, but we should also have a fair liability for when we fail in those duties and responsibilities. But that is on each of us, what society can do is help us grow in understanding of how we control ourselves, where and why it is appropriate, rather than not allowing us to make those determinations from our own senses.
-your opinions are strange and ambiguous (haha yes i just said that)
-catholicism, christianity, judaism and islam actually ARE all derived from Abraham, so more than similar, they share the same roots ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions )
-as for gay marriages, as Joseph said, i don’t really care, not because it doesn’t concern me, but because people can go do whatever they want as long as no one gets hurt
@typhon300, Ha what separation of church and state? There used to be and still should be but that died out long ago. Now after every speech you’ll hear God bless america. Not to mention all politicians help promote church ideals.
Shit “In god we trust” was only recently (relatively speaking) add to paper money and the pledge here in the grand ol’ US and A.
I’m gay and I hope I can get married someday. I tell a lot of people who are against gays that blacks used to be treated like animals and not allowed to marry before the civil rights movement, so why can’t gays marry. I think Romans might be the cause for homophobia because they edited the bible. They saw a lot of greek records of homosexuality, especially true homosexuals not the straight guys having sex for camaraderie, and they saw these flamboyant looking men and thought it was weird. People just don’t like changing their beliefs.
I started this thread a long time ago, but it has been recently active, cool.
I have a little insight to shine on the issue of gays and religion, so here goes.
It is primarily about hedonism, hedonism is where pleasure is more important than love and this usually refers to sexual pleasure, but it is more general in spirit. The main teaching of Jesus was basically how all things are made pure in the light of love, hedonism places more value on pleasure than love so this is offensive to that principle.
The thing is that until recently is was considered that gays were strictly hedonistic, could not, would not or do not love, and as we know this is not true at all. Yes there are plenty of hedonistic gays, but that is true of heterosexuals also, but certainly they should not be all heaped into the hedonistic category.
I personally don’t have a problem with hedonists, as long as they are consentual then their lifestyle is not my business, I’m sure they are generally nice people in their behaviours, they likely have consideration for people where it is appropriate. This is fine, there are people who are not considerate, people who violate consent, people who harm others, that is the real problem, and these people are not isolated or absolute to any particular group, except maybe jocks and cheerleaders ;) I kid. Even Dictators can be benevolent, not so sure about the corporate elite, I kid again.
As for comparing gays to Satan worshipers, this is called sarcasm, that people have a generalized pre-opinion of groups of people in the world. I saw a documentary on Satan worshipers, an official religion (like Star-trek) people may not take it seriously but it is legit. The people in this documentary are decent people, we have simply made our minds up that they are bad before we know them personally.
@trek79, Well,,,, you certainly brought the topic in to play. I see all the replys and see some amount of singularity in the batch as a whole. All predictable and all replays of past discusssions. It’s not that “I don’t care” is said so much but I think it is a misrepresentation of thought is general. I suggest that the term should be– ” i am aware at this point but can’t or choose not to enter into a movement to change the outcome of said debate” Everybody does “care” because they should know that every change WILL affect their world in some way no matter how small.
Personally I wish Gay marriage would be accepted and practiced.
Peraonally I applaud every person that makes a clear choice in life for a partner Gay or otherwise.
That’s my rant off the top of my soap box for today. I’m impressed with this site.
@warriors41, You are not gay but are you a human being? Do you have rights?@drunkmonkmeth, bigger issues than civil and human rights? Shit where have I been?@zeitro, first of all, I am well aware of the origins of these religions, many are not, that is the joke. Does not concern you? There are citizens who are second class to you and that does not affect you?
@drunkmonkmeth, Gays not being allowed to marry IS a hate crime.
But yes, there are many issues in the world.
None of them are more important than others, just others are more of an emergency (like starvation.)
ok so now that i’m not confused and offended and understand that you were kidding at first, my real opinion on the gay marriage issue is that i think it’s going pretty well! i see positivity and much more acceptance flourishing, of course there’s still the haters, but they’ve always been there! they’re just more noticeable now because the positive side of gay marriage is also much more noticeable!
@trek79, your attempt at making me sound like a douche fails :)
also, you’re the one who compared gays with satanists (unless you were joking there too? that’s what i meant by ambiguous, i can’t tell if you’re being serious or not)
also, sexual labels aside, i go both ways, so…
You can find a problem with the way anyone lives, for example; religious people live perfect lives completely justified in their faith, they do no wrong because the Bible said it’s okay, if anything it is the Bible that is responsible for their behaviour but the Bible is always right, so you are in a circular argument with them.
Gay sex is unnatural; there are plenty of unnatural things that humans do, in fact the categories “natural” and “unnatural” refer to what is done by nature as opposed to what is done by humans (or perhaps aliens, gods or God) so it is a circular argument. Tattoos and body piercing is unnatural and more irreversible and invasive than gay sex, but we do not persecute people for that.
There is an idea that there are certain behaviours society has a right to expect from its citizens but there is also a line where society has no right to interfere in a private citizens life. This whole issue is about groups of people with like-minds trying to dictate what is acceptable to society and lay out demands that private citizens are expected to conform to.
Think about that…
I think certain things people have the right to define for themselves, like who you are, who you love and what your relationship means to you. Something like the word “married/marriage” has a subjectivity to it that people should have the right to tailor to their own lives.
You have legal definitions and religious definitions floating about, trying to assert themselves over the other, but when it comes down to it; each of us go home and embrace marriage in a personal way. Where is the right for marriage to mean whatever I want it to? I’m not religious, I know nothing about law, so to hell with whatever they are telling me what marriage is, I will decide.
this is the civil rights issue of our generation. before it was segregation based on color of skin. this isn’t much different. I am sad to see that some of you don’t care about this issue. It is wrong that homosexual couples are denied the right of marriage. It is because so many people don’t care that this issue persists. @trek79, thank you for posting this topic. It needs more attention. More people need to care. Maybe it doesn’t affect you, but I think you should at least feel sympathy for these people.
I just can’t believe we’re stopping two human beings from being together for reasons as stupid as religion (then again, there are a ton of fucked up things that fall into this category) and how hypocritical some people are about it. The other day one of my friends was bragging about how he has anal sex with his girlfriend all the time but is also against gay marriage. Oh, the irony.