Since the mods don’t do mod-stuff on this site, I’ve taken matters into my own hands and cleaned up a thread gone bad.
1. This post uses harsh words, politically incorrect observations, and no-bullshit depictions of certain demographics.
If you can’t handle this, read no further.
2. If you feel that it hits a nerve, be a mature person and don’t rage.
3. If all you’re gonna post is irrelevant hate or ass-kissing, don’t post.
4. Opinions and feelings presented in this post are not necessarily mine or something that I agree with.
5. An intelligent, open mided person wouldn’t need a disclaimer like this to keep their shit together.
Now then, let’s dive in!
This is gonna be a bit of a long read, so how about some music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD6gKjtpkFM
We’ve been lied to, we’ve been used, betrayed and exploited.
At the end of high school, we were told that we should study further at a university or why not get a job? “Just follow your dreams and the money will come to you in due time!”
Later when we finally graduated with a completely fucking useless piece of paper in our hands they said “What? What did you think? Do you expect that everything in life will just be served to you on a silver platter? We all have to work hard, that’s life.”
Some of us barely made it into a labour market that’s completely messed up. Instead of the explicit and obvious functional hierarchy, where YOU know YOUR place in the organization, where YOU know exacatly what’s expected and demanded of YOU, where YOU can advance by being efficient and proving yourself worthy, where it’s all about doing your job… we were met by the implicit, feminized hierarchy where it’s all about getting along, not stepping on anyone’s toes, not being offensive, always work for consensus and be a people pleaser.
And as we all know, this is not a hospitable environment for a man, it’s not efficient, and it sucks your mind dry.
As we got older we found out more about the grownup life in “modern society” and the bastardized laws and norms that stalk our every move -like a totalitarian dictatorship revolving around political correctness- where the lion’s share of redistribution of wealth goes from men to women, and from hardworking individuals to lazy scumbags from the darkest nooks and crannies of the fucking land.
A society where YOU are supposed to work hard for a shitty salary that barely makes a difference. In a society where YOU are supposed to pay for their “needs,” just because they’d rather live like pigs and get all sorts of diseases and injuries, or commit crimes or simply just sit on their asses. They’re the reason tax rates are so high, because they don’t fucking take care of themselves we’re supposed to clean up their mess.
A society where YOU must work hard so that some goofball can make a living by force-feeding you cant and flourish and telling you how billions of our tax money will be spent on parasites who aren’t satisfied with free food, licenses and phones. Not only do they legally get these things for free, a lot of them steal and commit other crimes.
(I’m not being a racist or anything, these kinds of people are everywhere, of every race and ethnicity)
A society where YOU must work hard to pay for some single mom who’s only single because she cheated on her man, and who’d rather “embrace her life as a single” sucking random dicks in toilet stalls, than take care of her kids and let them grow up in a decent environment, or find a decent man to help her with it.
And it’s not just the cheating ones either, most divorces are filed by women, they put themselves in that situation, yet we have to pay for it.
The bill is sent to us, the men.
And despite you having done all those things, serving your people and your country, it’s still YOU who has to pay when the politicians decide that we need some new privilege for women or immigrants or some other self-induced minority and people whose IQ is seemingly roughly the same as that of a seagull.
Or some feminazi with six terms of “gender science” to her name.
We’re in this shit together, and we’ve been forced to to help the biggest shitheads of society, the ones with the power, we’ve saved the economy and the single mothers and the rotten stanky goo at the lowest tier of society.
Meanwhile, they’ve all been punishing the men who would be, and have been, the most productive and helpful.
We’re not welcome on the labour market, due to new “equality standards”… yet we’re expected to pay for EVERYTHING.
AND THEN THERE’S THE WOMEN THEMSELVES…
The women, who in our culture have become the most decadent and repulsive fucking hags since the fall of the Roman empire. They spend the best years of their lives doing nothing of value, just shopping, lunching, binge drinking, getting fucked by scumbags. Like flies to the shit, they seek out the criminal, intelligence-devoid shitheads who fuck them like animals and pass them around between eachother like a bong.
Then they cry and whine about it, as if it was any surprise that the douchebags just fucked them and left them, as if they didn’t choose it themselves.
At the same time they despise, harass, and shun the men who would treat them with love, respect and honour.
They’re attention whores, uploading nearly naked pictures, writing post after attention seeking post on Facebook and Twitter, while some sociopath lowlife who wouldn’t have had the slightest chance of procreating in the good old functional western society, can actually get laid as a “thanks for all the clicking of the like button and giving me 15 minutes of internet fame and telling me that I’m so hot.”
We’ve got the nastiest, vilest, most shallow and fake bitches in the history of civilization, and they all think they’re hot stuff.
When they get a little bit older, and their bodies and minds are crumbling prematurely due to their fucked up lifestyle, the badboys lose interest, and the cock carousel stops spinning, YOU are expected to marry them.
That’s right, put on your big boy panties and marry those hussies! That’s the message we men get shoved down our throats since before we can even say a proper sentence.
Because it’s YOUR fault that the women have become like dogs with no focus, fucking around, never showing any interest in anything outside of what the media tells them to think, not taking care of themselves, showing no respect for the men in their lives, AT ALL.
So some of you marry them, and a few years later they file a divorce, taking all that you own. Meanwhile some of you are living in the dark, sadly unaware that your “love child” is in fact the result of some adventure with a criminal swine, whose bastard child you’ve spent your life, soul and fortune on. And if you dodged that bullet, other men might have to pay for the child, if she ends up like the rest of the single mothers.
Some of you meet a woman who seems real nice, cool and right… only to suddenly be charged with rape, despite never having done such a thing. And she makes a fortune out of it, while you get locked up and branded. You suffer for her greed, and she gets away with a fat check.
Just ask Julian Assange…
And then THEY whine about victims being blamed…
Music’s over? Here’s some more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G340X0i-jWA
A young promiscuous woman with a skirt that looks more like a belt, and a transparent tube top that looks more like an eye patch, logs out of some “discussion” about the joys of “equality” and heads for the club. She takes a shortcut through a dark park in the bad neighbourhood and gets gang raped and hammered in holes she didn’t know existed, by a horde of “poor helpless refugees” (organized criminals that she and her peers voted to be let through the borders, despite being warned.)
And if you’d even get close to mentioning some of the factors behind it, they’d accuse you of putting blame on the victim. And YOU, who’s worked hard and done what’s right, been responsible and mature, and treating women and your surroundings with respect, get harassed and spat on.
“STRONG WOMAN” – What complete fucking drivel!
The media’s message is more retarded than ever. Today we have blogger girls making a fortune misleading the youth into degeneration. They’re seen on all the talk shows, and are drenched with epithets like “strong, independent, role model” when in reality “gravely narcissistic sociopath with a lacking intellect” would be a more accurate description.
Girls are taught to be histrionic drama queens, cry over bullshit, magnify non-issues, get upset over trifles, take offence where nothing offensive can be found.
These days even the hogs and toads think they’re perfect 10s, who can strut around like primadonnas acting like they’re the shit.
But being an insolent bitch and acting like a rude primadonna when nobody can punch you in the mouth for it… IS NOT STRENGTH. But once again, our culture SALUTES this!
SCUMBAGS AND DICKHADS ARE IN COMMAND NOWADAYS
Some of you have heard some “mr big ole misogynous racist” tell old stories about there actually being a time when there were decent, honourable men of the people leading the sports teams and rockbands and even politics. Men who weren’t complete assholes, who didn’t treat their fellow men like shit, who didn’t throw tantrums when they didn’t get what they wanted. And who weren’t just picked because they were part of some minority, in an attempt to give off an impression of “equality.”
For the younger readers this probably sounds like an old myth from some fucking 50s movie.
BUT IT ISN’T!
It’s completely true!! It’s been the norm in our society for the major part of our history. It’s only now that it’s completely perverted, following this strange bastardized, feminized version of “the jungle laws.”
Look around you, do you see a single thing that was created by a “strong woman” or some scumbag on welfare? Hmm.
Damn right, you don’t. Despite this fact, we the honourable intelligent men are blamed for all the misery in the world. Everything is our fault, they say.
Pretty damn sick, isn’t it? Fucking damn right it is!!
And it’s not just the shit in our own backyard, all the suffering in the world is apparently our fault. We’re accused for the poverty in underdeveloped nations, despite the fact that it was just as bad or even worse before we found them, the people were living in huts made out of twigs, never even considering inventing useful stuff or cooperating with anyone outside the family. And they still do in many cases, but that’s not our fault in any way.
Yet we’re “monsters” if we don’t send them our money (What money? All our earnings went to taxes and shit.) And if some of them make it to our countries, we’re expected to pay their way, or we’re “racists.” And even though we pay for their living, they didn’t get it one bit better, their ghettos are just as bad as whatever hellhole they came from.
Society isn’t helping these people, they’re using them to redistribute money (for their own gain.)
Not only that, but when they refuse to abandon their barbaric traditions, reverting the order to arabic 7th century standards, no heed is paid to the fact that children will be mutilated, or the fact that they demand that the meat they eat was cut from an animal that was slowly and painfully killed and left to bleed out, or demanding respect for devoting their lives to some fictional paedophile who supposedly lived 1400 years ago, etc. (Islam is just one of MANY such cultural influences they force us to embrace.)
Oh no, disregard that, what’s important here is the white man’s close-minded racist values. Right?
Oh media, you so crazy.
And every week some new goofball pops out of nowhere into the media, for having found something vaguely “racist” in an old comic book or some candy bar mascot, and wanting to outlaw words and symbols that have been part of our culture since way before they set foot here.
White men are the only ones you can legally discriminate these days.
And it’s not just legal, it’s fucking ENCOURAGED and SALUTED!
WE NEED CHANGE!
The worried media people are right about one thing, there’s a huge ever-growing mass of young men who are getting fed up. Very, very fucking sick of it.
Men with soul and character, but what are we supposed to do in today’s world?
Give up, marry the whores and become a part of the downfall?
Or let it become a productive force that will bring us back on track, take us to a new and functional golden age we’ve been striving for since the dawn of civilization?
With practical, functional leadership and structure, true organization and sane values?
Isn’t it worth it to do whatever it takes, to rectify the errors and get out of this distorted, mangled, sick, feminzied, patriarchal gynocracy?
Don’t you see that this emphasis on the “feminine values” has only brought chaos and misery to our society? Everything we’ve built is crumbling because masculine values are outlawed.
Sure, the ranks of enlightened men are growing, but the question is if it’s happening fast enough to avoid a total collapse?
Something must be done but of course it takes a lot more than just voting every couple of years in a fixed election.
Do you feel me, do you recognize yourself in this situation? It’s hard to be a man these days… This society hates men.
The question is WHAT can we do? Is enough really being done to change things for the better? What do you think? Opinions and reflections?
Another dose of high energy music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMt3B2Qn9tk
AND NOW FOR THE EVENT THAT YOU’VE ALL BEEN (unconsciously) WAITING FOR…
*jazz hands* *drum roll*
The big reversal.
Did you really think I’d start a thread just to whine and point fingers? Hmm?
That’s not what this is about.
While the issue at hand is of course real and relevant, you all understand that, right? BUT it’s only part of the story.
It’s hard to be a man these days, yes. But it’s never been easy to be a man. It’s never been too hard either, and it still isn’t. Never will be.
It’s easy to blame the system for everything, but you know what? Blaming doesn’t solve anything. And it’s not all the system’s fault. At the very most, 50% of the blame could rightly be put on society, the rest is all YOU.
That’s right, YOU. You’re responsible.
And I’m not talking about YOU as in the masses, but YOU the individual. That’s right, to quite some degree it is your fault.
Because it’s YOU life, YOUR actions, YOUR decisions, YOUR thoughts, YOUR responsibility.
Nothing comes for free, there really are no birthrights. You want respect and a decent living, well you gotta earn it.
And I’m not talking about earning it from some self-proclaimed master who’s really just an asshat with hubris. I’m talking about REALLY earning it.
Do you believe in God, some sort of entity or game master behind everything? Maybe you believe the universe is just a reflection of the self or something like that? Maybe you believe in some universal power or whatever? Or maybe you believe in nothing, there’s just the world and us.
It doesn’t matter, the point is that you gotta earn it from this whatever it is you want to call it, not just some human hierarchy.
Ever notice how some men get their fair share of all the good the world has to offer, they enjoy an honourable life and get respect and love, it’s almost as if “the system” doesn’t exist to them.
Do you know why we live like that, while the commoners just suffer and get treated like shit?
It’s because we’ve earned it, done it the right way, the path of least resistance, the universal path, or whatever you wanna call it.
The system doesn’t exist to us because we don’t submit to it. It’s really that simple.
And that’s what it really means to be a man. If you let others define you and decide your role and destiny, you’re giving them free choice to do whatever they want with you. And so, you really have earned the shitty treatment you’re getting.
As for society, society is nothing but the sum total of all the individuals living within it. We’ve all been part of making it the way it is, we’ve all turned it into this rotten shit hole. Because we refused responsibility and sane values, traded our voice for novelties and temporary pleasures and privileges.
That’s society for ya.
It’s not a good environment for an individual, especially not for a man. Kinda makes you wanna rip your hair out and go berserk with a minigun at times.
But as much as it sucks, you did take the major part in putting yourself in that situation.
If you wanna be treated like a man, be a man.
And don’t go all “But they started it!” or “I can’t because there’s so much pressure and so many distractions” or some other lame excuse like that.
Because the ball is in your end of the field. The pre-emptive initiative is yours. And yours only, because it’s your life.
That’s what it means to be a man. Responsibility and initiative.
And that’s what’s lacking in this world. Men.
A sick society didn’t cause the lack of men, the lack of men caused a sick society.
Peace out folks
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So I don’t post much on HE, but I couldn’t resist. @manimal, thank you for the article. Your argument holds water. It does, however, have some holes, whether they’re your opinions or not.
1. “If you feel that it hits a nerve, be a mature person and don’t rage.”
Uh… there seems to be a lot of rage in this article, and I can’t bite my tongue about the duplicity. I think there was redemption for the overall message later in the post, but the hypocrisy was, in my opinion, a pretty big step in the wrong direction initially.
2. “Look around you, do you see a single thing that was created by a “strong woman” or some scumbag on welfare? Hmm.”
I don’t know about “strong women” in the feminist sense, but I should remind you of a few women who have made HUGE bounds in science:
Dr. Patricia Bath – one of the pioneers of laser surgery, invented a method for safer removal of cataract lenses
Katherine Blodgett – used her research on monomolecular films to create the first completely invisible glass
Marie Curie – famous for her discovery of Radium and Polonium, as well as her application and research in the chemical field
Patricia Billings – invented Geobond: a non-toxic, fire resistant construction material designed to replace asbestos
Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin – used x-ray technology to map the molecular structures of over 100 molecules, including penicillin, vitamin B-12, vitamin D, and insulin
…the list could go on and on. Magnitude is irrelevant.
The point isn’t to say that women are superior; I don’t believe that we are. I could obviously name thousands of male inventors and scientists whose discoveries have changed the world. The point is that, with all due respect, equality is hugely important. The argument above seem to put itself pretty well on the level of the feminazi bullshit that is so blatantly despised. It isn’t any one person or group, be it immigrants/women/men/Christians/you name it, that fucked over society, and it isn’t one group that can fix it. In my opinion, there’s something to be said about any self-proclamation, whether the title is “strong, independent woman” or “man with soul and character.” I think it’s indisputable that the most extraordinary people of any race, sex, or social status are astute in putting their actions and ideals where their titles are.
You’re right about individuals and our lack of entitlement, but hole number two in your metaphorical boat: HUGE oversimplifications on every aspect of the argument. I have refrained from pointing out example after example from the article to corroborate. We’re all literate.
3. “Men with soul and character, but what are we supposed to do in today’s world? Give up, marry the whores and become a part of the downfall?”,
“Girls are taught to be histrionic drama queens, cry over bullshit, magnify non-issues, get upset over trifles, take offence where nothing offensive can be found.”, and
“These days even the hogs and toads think they’re perfect 10s, who can strut around like primadonnas acting like they’re the shit.”
Sigh. Forgive me for the condescension, but aren’t we all a little too old for this shit? Clearly as a world population maturity is a problem, but I’d like to think that the majority of my fellow HEathens could see your point without the pity parties, double standards, and genuine bullshit quoted above. To first address the question about the expectation of such soulful, charismatic men in today’s world: It’s my understanding that as a member of the human race, you’re supposed to strive for the exceptional, be responsible for yourself and your kin, and do what makes you happy without fucking it up for everyone else. Sorry kids, but the whole first quotation is classic either/or fallacy. There are other options that aren’t fairly represented here, including being tolerant, well-rounded men with standards and stable heads on broad shoulders. You clearly have ideas about what women should and should not be, judging from the next two quotes, so take a peek in the mirror from time to time.
Which leads me to another disappointment… come on, dude. I’m truly not offended in the slightest by these words, but what kind of girls have you been talking to? This sounds like eighth grade bullshit, which admittedly, I have seen in adults far too often, but you have to sleep in the bed you made. I completely agree with (@theskafish) about being the change you want to see. If you don’t want whores walking around, don’t sexualize people. If you don’t want primadonnas, stop criticizing women for being less than what you consider to be perfect. Additionally, you can beat the dead horse of biology some more if you’d like, but that’s not going to change that men and women are hormonally different creatures. Is some of it societal? Yes, obviously, since the same seemingly unattractive dramatic qualities you’re criticizing run rampant throughout the entire article. Here’s a side note on “toads and hogs”, at the risk of being a “primadonna”: I genuinely could not give two fucks less about what any stranger has to say about my appearance. I don’t think I’m a perfect 10, nor do I consider myself unworthy of anyone’s respect consequently.
Major issue three: Drama breeds drama, what reaction are you trying to draw, seeing that you are adamantly opposed to histrionic drama queens?
I agree, feminism is annoying, but so is any form of sexism, racism, and other discrimination criteria. Like I mentioned before, equality is essentially important; I’d say that lots of feminists deserve the same lecture. It seems like the concept of a true humanistic perception is becoming less and less realistic. I hate sound like a hippie peace keeper, but I can’t wait til we’re all mature enough to just get along. I don’t think I’ll live to see that day.
Again, @manimal, thank you for the article and standing up for shit that has equal merit to the media we hear today. Keep in mind, though, that sharing merit with the media can be dangerous since, you know, media so silly.
All due respect. :)
@theskafish, 60% of the replies were off-topic. Half of that was also flaming. We’re talking a full 7 pages’ worth of off topic, and of those a whole 3-4 pages worth of flaming and douchebaggery (half of this latter category was posted by one single user, I’m sure you know which one)
How is that “no need for moderating?”
That’s a rhetorical question, we both know the answer, and it’s not related to the topic at hand.
Nobody HAS to take shit from society, it is a choice. And personally, the only shit they’re giving me is tax, and if things go as planned that won’t be the case for too much longer.
I’m not speaking from a position of suppression and anger, but from the position of having overcome it. That’s why I share a solution.
If I didn’t know what works, yet posted a solution, that would be projecting and LYING. You don’t know what you don’t know. Experience is the only teacher.
That’s why it’s so annoying to hear a bunch of people claiming they know what will solve economical and political problems. They have no experience, they haven’t even got it handled on the personal level, yet they claim to have it all figured out and act as if their belief-system is the end-all solution to these problems.
When in reality, it wouldn’t work at all.
If you’re not doing it, you don’t know it. People saying the economy would be better for everyone if A and B was done, and everyone would be happen if X and Y was implemented.
That’s just make-believe.
Just an ego validating itself.
That’s right, I’m talking to all you commies, feminists, buddhists, new agers, socialists, and such.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s all just wishful guesswork.
If you haven’t solved a problem, you don’t know what the solution is.
Fuck ideologies. USE YOUR OWN BRAIN, PEOPLE!
@mehdi756, You made a good point man. What I find crazy is the number of people in prisons for various drug offences, some people who’s crimes had no victims, and other people who just need rehab. Rehab would be a fraction of the cost, you wouldn’t necessarily think so, but the number of re-offenders would plummet, saving money instantly.
@manimal, The cycle needs to break. There is no motivation for anyone. Here, drug addicts are given housing, a weekly allowance, and heroin addicts are given a heroin substitute every day. I have spoken to alcoholics who have told me the system does nothing to help them. If you’re an addict and everything is being supplied why would you change?
Kids are leaving school, having kids, being given a house, weekly allowance etc etc. They don’t have to work for anything. I know people who at the same age as me, 25, have never worked a day in their life. Do I envy them? Fuck no. It looks like a miserable existence.
Once you’re in the system you’re stuck. Now I know no one is stuck in it. But some of these people try to go out and make money, and come out with less. I’m pretty sure I earn less money than a lot of these people receive. I’ve learnt to live off as little money as possible, and I’ve never been happier. This is real freedom, but people are skeptical. Even amongst my friends for instance.
I don’t know, I can’t help but feel sorry for them. They are stuck in this crazy little system bubble and know no different. I know ignorance is no excuse, and hell they’re not even all ignorant, but ultimately the system has failed them. It encourages absolutely no human improvement what so ever. And in doing so the system has failed the rest of us. It has surrounded us by humans who strive for nothing else. And that, ultimately, I think is the problem.
Really, it’s all about taking your life into your hands and taking responsibility for it. I agree with most of what is said In the op as it is something I’ve observed growing up and it is pretty repulsive. Follow your true passions and don’t be a coward. The opposite of courage isn’t cowardice however, it’s conformity.
@trek79, My experience of electricians (from working alongside them for years) is that they’re mostly unnecessary haha.
Nah man, I see your point.
But I really wouldn’t call that dependency. Unless you’re a cyborg, you can’t be dependent on electronics. Electricity is not a necessity, it is luxury.
Me hiring an electrician to fix my electricity problems for me is a quick fix, it’s comfortable and it’s fast, but I could figure it out on my own. So could anyone.
If you make money, and use this money to hire other people to help you, that’s not codependency, it’s collaboration. Dependency is when you cannot live without something. Dependency is when you act out of desperation rather than reason and choice.
A lack of money is not the issue though. Money doesn’t make you rich, it can make you poorer, and the more you earn the less you get to keep (due to tax.) If you don’t know how to handle money, all the money in the world can’t make you rich. If you do know how to handle money, you can get by on almost no money while also improving your own economy.
People aren’t poor because people don’t give them money. People are poor because they’re financially illiterate, and that is something they’ve chosen, because the lesson is always available to all of those who pay attention and use some logic.
@manimal, instead of being popular I should have said working with others successfully, which requires relational awareness.
I see what you mean about work/ recovery.
I can perceive a certain amount of your energy through your writing. Yes it is always my choice to feel anything, but I think there is a part of accountability that is being responsible for the way you affect others.For instance I think your lack of consideration that people will read this post and equate femininity with women causes it to be taken poorly, as a sexist post, and is irresponsible in communicating such an important message.
I don’t know how you are truly, but in this post your message was antagonistic and commanding, not that it wasn’t relevant and inspiring. But I was pointing out that making up for the lack of masculine energy by displaying only masculine energy is going to make the people around you balance you out by displaying feminine passivity.
@smoothone155, Although I agree with you, I would have to side with@manimal, on that one. Of course he made it sound a little sexist but at the same time, 90% of those women on welfare could have been prevented. Most come from the man leaving a relationship and the woman gets stuck with the child on her own. While the man should step up and be a father, the woman shouldn’t have had sex with someone knowing the possibility of getting pregnant if she couldn’t handle it on her own financially. This is why we get to know people before we sleep with them. Not 6 months into a relationship. Anyone can fake 6 months.
Now one time, I could see, but some women take advantage of the system. They purposely have children to get money. Does it piss me off? Hell yeah it does, I’m working as a cashier and these same women come in my line and give me an attitude when MY taxes are going to them. But does this mean all or even a lot of women act this way? No. There are plenty of independent women that are not trying to screw the system or men over.
@kidd, First of all, that’s not your fight, it’s THEIR fight. Nobody else can win it for them.
Second, the media’s image of the middle east is far from the truth. It’s demonizing hate propaganda.
@moonglade, It’s a personal war, not a collective one. Freedom is an individual thing, not a gender thing. The “women” that act like little girls is the vast majority, they greatly outnumber the real women. And so do the nasty, hateful feminist hags.
Strong and independent women are awesome, but extremely rare. And they’re way above having their image muddied by the horde of lousy ones.
Dishwashers and stuff like that take care of the need for someone to take care of the home? How materialistic can you get? Who’s gonna take care of the kids, water the plants, use all the stuff, etc?
I, for one, would never send my kids to a brain-rotting daycare/kindergarten. And I would never order fast food. So someone’s gotta cook and raise kids, of course I will do half of that work though.
Look, family and home is important stuff. The way today’s society is dissolving families is just fucked up, it fucks people up.
Diverse ways of thinking is good in SOME jobs, but in most jobs it’s very counter-productive. There is a right way to do most things, doing it other ways is sabotage. Only in “thinker” jobs is it a good thing, and a decent thinker can already think in many different ways, and is not locked by his/her gender.
QUALITY BEFORE QUANTITY.
The way you talk about UTILIZING PEOPLE, about COUNTRY STANDARD, and BEING GOOD TO SOCIETY shows just how little respect you have for human individuals. Dude, we’re not robots, we’re not pets, we’re not tools, we’re free individuals. Those who just want to be part of society have it all wrong, and that’s why they end up in the bottom of the food chain. If you want to belong and be cared for, you want to be weak and exploited. It’s that fucking simple.
Sheep get shorn and eaten, and that’s the only reason the farmer keeps them secure and well-fed. Society is just like this farm.
Stand on your own two feet, or accept being used and disposed.
“This is why as a male I support programs aiming to get women into male dominated programs such as engineering and computer science. It only makes sense”
Gender is more important than skill? That is fucking ridiculous, it doesn’t make sense. If a woman has the superior skills, she should be taken in. If a man has superior skills, he’s the one who should get in and she’s gotta go somewhere else.
This reminds me of that news story, where a firewoman failed to save a person from a slow painful death, just because she was too weak to do it. She (and a bunch of other women) was given that job simply because it was male-dominated, they got tests that were much easier, and the guys who were actually much better fit for the job were sent home without jobs.
And yknow, this was not the only time things like that happened. People burn alive, get slowly crushed, etc, just so women can have jobs for which they aren’t cut… while those who would’ve saved those people were denied job, just because they happened to be male.
Several businesses have gone bankrupt, due to being forced to hire women, who simply couldn’t do what was required. Yet, they were not allowed to fire these women, they had to slowly watch their hard-earned business crumble. Not only did they have to pay for shitty workforce, they had to rebuild their offices, hqs and dorms just so women could have separate WCs and shit like that.
You support that shit? Then YOU ARE an EXTREME sexist. And the only fair outcome is that you end up in situations like that, being sacrificed just so some rotten feminists can fingerbang their egos.
Fuck that shit.
@mehdi756, Great, an actual on-topic post. You’re totally right, dude. It’s fucked up. I sure as hell don’t want people locked up, why the fuck should I pay for it?
@kayla147258, My views of women? I love women, why should I cool down on that?
I never claimed all women are like this, I even clarified this in the disclaimer.
@smoothone155, My opinions? Haha this is a discussion, not a battle of opinions. If I wanted to discuss my opinions I’d discuss with myself.
You don’t even know what my opinion on the matter is.
Plus, THIS ISN’T A THREAD ABOUT GENUS ISSUES.
But alright, I’ll answer your questions anyway.
Why a lot of women think they need to act like mental cases? Well, this is all due to their ways of thinking.
Why so many are in welfare? Because instead of being active and productive they just sit on their asses and expect things to just come to them. It’s called laziness and irresponsibility.
Why women make less money? Because that’s what society sees fit, and they choose to live under this society, that means they choose to abide by its rules. There’s many jobs that women simply can’t do nearly as well as men can, and these jobs used to be the backbone of the labour market, still are to quite some degree. Hence the lower pay.
No I don’t think it’s right that women get paid less for the same work. But it isn’t right that a woman who delivers less gets payed as much as a man or woman who delivers more gets paid either. Wages should be individual.
That’s the whole thing, these issues are not gender issues. They’re INDIVIDUAL issues.
“Women’s rights” and “men vs women” arguments are OFF-TOPIC
If you want to discuss that topic, do it in one of the threads where it belongs. Or in a pm if you want to discuss with a certain user.
Keep it together, don’t derail threads.
@neurojessica, I like your style. Well, some of it.
“I think there was redemption for the overall message later in the post, but the hypocrisy was, in my opinion, a pretty big step in the wrong direction initially.” – @neurojessica
-Ah, but see, this is where you’re wrong. As I said, the first part of the thread is just the “Is this you?” part. It’s there to grab the attention of the people who feel that way, not to express my opinion. It’s also there to shatter the veil of the nasties who fit the description, but not to reflect my beliefs or feelings.
“I don’t know about “strong women” in the feminist sense, but I should remind you of a few women who have made HUGE bounds in science:” – @neurojessica
-Great examples, bravo. An argument with substance and support, this is rare.
But yknow, those women are/were genuine smart and driven individuals, nothing like the feminists.
“The argument above seem to put itself pretty well on the level of the feminazi bullshit that is so blatantly despised. It isn’t any one person or group, be it immigrants/women/men/Christians/you name it, that fucked over society, and it isn’t one group that can fix it.” – @neurojessica
-This is a misunderstanding. The point is not to lay blame for the downfall of civilization, but merely to expose and question some nasty behaviours and their consequences. Of course a single group could fix it, if they were to resort to certain methods which by today’s standards are a bit… questionable. Still, it’s possible.
“You’re right about individuals and our lack of entitlement, but hole number two in your metaphorical boat: HUGE oversimplifications on every aspect of the argument. I have refrained from pointing out example after example from the article to corroborate. We’re all literate.” – @neurojessica
-Things are always a lot simpler than they seem, once you look at it from some distance. And like the wise men say, a problem cannot be solved at the same level on mind where it was created.
You cannot see the house if you’re inside it, you can only see what is inside it. From outside the house can be seen, described, and altered.
Catch my drift?
The concept of “oversimplification” is merely a defensive rationalisation to protect the self from change.
“Sigh. Forgive me for the condescension, but aren’t we all a little too old for this shit? Clearly as a world population maturity is a problem, but I’d like to think that the majority of my fellow HEathens could see your point without the pity parties, double standards, and genuine bullshit quoted above.” – @neurojessica
-Pity parties and double standards? Tsk.
Like I said, establishing rapport and self-expression are not the same. As for the double standards, I guess you see what you want to see. And since this is on the topic of politics and bitches… don’t you think you’re shouting “double standards” in the wrong direction..?
Never mind the angry bear, focus your attacks on the buzzing mosquito, is that what you call a wise approach?
“Sorry kids, but the whole first quotation is classic either/or fallacy. There are other options that aren’t fairly represented here, including being tolerant, well-rounded men with standards and stable heads on broad shoulders.” – @neurojessica
-Broad strokes, woman. Broad strokes. When I write, I presume that the readers are smart enough to understand that I’m using broad strokes, I presume that they can fill in the details themselves, but I guess that is setting myself up for disappointment…
There’s endless possibilities for glitzy details, ways to go about it, but at the fundamental level there are only so many options. THAT is where I’m coming from, THAT is what I’m talking about. Details don’t matter much. Don’t be so concerned with the surface, look deeper and you shall see.
When you say tolerant, you mean settling for less, giving in, promoting the sickness, don’t you?
“Which leads me to another disappointment… come on, dude. I’m truly not offended in the slightest by these words, but what kind of girls have you been talking to?” – @neurojessica
-All sorts of different kinds. And I’m not USAn, so there’s a lot more variety and intelligence on average among the women.
I am aware that I live in the feminist capital of the world, so I do not let this situational bias cloud my lens, I know that the situation isn’t as bad in the rest of the world, this has been taken into consideration.
-Haha. I’m not a woman, I can’t be that change.
“If you don’t want whores walking around, don’t sexualize people. If you don’t want primadonnas, stop criticizing women for being less than what you consider to be perfect.” – @neurojessica
-Sexualizing people justifies whorishness? No, that’s just a poor excuse. People are sexual beings, that’s a fact. And I don’t mind whores, why would I? The problem is not that they are that way, the problem is that they expect to be treated as if they were not. You make your choices in life, at a fork in the road you make a choice, you can’t walk both roads. If you choose to be one thing, you’re stuck with the privileges and penalties of being that. You’ve made your choice, you’ve reaped what you sowed, asking for more or complaining is disgusting and retarded.
Criticizing someone makes them a primadonna? Haha, it’s the other way around. Undue praise is what makes primadonnas. That’s why there’s so many of those today, we live in an age of intentional ego bloating. A time when shitty behaviour is encouraged and rewarded. That’s why there’s so many shitheads these days.
” Here’s a side note on “toads and hogs”, at the risk of being a “primadonna”: I genuinely could not give two fucks less about what any stranger has to say about my appearance. I don’t think I’m a perfect 10, nor do I consider myself unworthy of anyone’s respect consequently.” – @neurojessica
-”Toads and hogs” means much more than appearance. Why so shallow?
“Major issue three: Drama breeds drama, what reaction are you trying to draw, seeing that you are adamantly opposed to histrionic drama queens?” – @neurojessica
-Call it drama if you will, that does not make it so.
What results I’m looking for? You’ll see.
“It seems like the concept of a true humanistic perception is becoming less and less realistic. I hate sound like a hippie peace keeper, but I can’t wait til we’re all mature enough to just get along. I don’t think I’ll live to see that day.”
Ugh. Another one who’s fallen to this shit. Look, that’s NOT maturity, it’s fucking SUBMISSION. The “peace” is artificial and comes at an invaluable cost. It’s all just one big lie, and the only purpose of this lie is to herd people. If you’ve fallen for that shit, I truly pity you, and I can see where your misinterpretations are rooted. This explains a lot.
We’re so incredibly far away from the stage where we can truly get along and enjoy authentic peace, we’re not ready for it, we’re not capable of it. We still have such a long way to go. Nothing worthwhile comes immediately.
We’re talking many, many, times longer than a human lifespan. But yknow, it won’t be long before we can greatly extend the lifespan, and yknow, there might be some sort of transcendence/reincarnation.
Don’t be so pessimistic, you can get to see that grand day, without selling your soul for a shitty replica of it. If you just hang in there and do what it takes.
That’s the problem, people are so easily bought. That’s the core essence of the message of the OP.
@manimal, My opinion is just what I see as what society could be teaching individuals to break the parasitic cycle, but instead of doing that society goes to these extraordinary lengths to accomodate people for their parasitic behaviours and it is bleeding hearts who force this “obligation”.
I said in a different discussion “Where is motivation? People do not need it, it is replaced by expectation. Why would people need to earn what is granted as a right?” When people earn what they get they not only appresiate it more but they appresiate themselves for the earning.
When we give away livings we create a debt, a debt that says we owe these people a living, and because it is owed them they do not appresiate it, they just expect it. This does not motivate people to earn, it does not give people the opportunity to appresiate earning. It does not encourage the opinion that I gave above, it only gives the option to deny the opinion I gave above.
Generally, if people were taught the opinion I gave above then generally people would avoid the situations that merit welfare, welfare would only exist in the most extenuating circumstances, not create a culture for it. I suppose the phrase the bleeding hearts must learn is “Tough Love”.
But on the counter balance, I do believe that people should at least have the opportunity to learn my opinion above and gain the tools to earn, the education and the chance to put that education to work, a failure in providing those opportunities is the real failure I see of society. But that is not always so easy because they still need the basics of survival to keep them alive while they are getting that education.
@manimal, I like how you say freedom is relative to responsibility, the more responsibility you take the freer you are. I said a similar thing that people complain about freedom and control, freedom is a type of control and it is called self-control, which makes sense because you are controlling you rather than someone else.
But that self-control is in trusting what makes sense to you(and by ‘you’ I mean anyone), not just what you are told and deciding you have no place to question it, what makes sense to you is your own character speaking to you, you want to enjoy life an gain benefit from your deeds. Deeds don’t always conform to the intent that motivates it but you do your best because you are trying to relect your character onto the world.
People don’t see your true intent, this would make everything so much easier if we could, but what they do see is your actions so you work on making your actions reflect your character as best you can.
That does seem to rely on the premise that you give two fucks about what anyone else thinks about your character, but this is not really true in the sense that your goal is ultimately to enjoy your life and make it better, just that reflecting your character in your actions can make that process either much easier or much harder, and it depends on you to find the optimal way to exploit that.
But that statement “If you can’t stand kneel, if you can’t kneel stand” reminds me of Martin Luther King: “If you can’t fly then run, if you can’t run then walk, if you can’t walk then crawl, but whatever you do you have to keep moving forward.”
@trek79, “My opinion is just what I see as what society could be teaching individuals to break the parasitic cycle, but instead of doing that society goes to these extraordinary lengths to accomodate people for their parasitic behaviours and it is bleeding hearts who force this “obligation”.”
Yes, but you can’t lull people into compliance by telling them to stand on their own, can you? And at the end of the day, that’s the only motivation for society to exist.
It’s like those tamers on the circus, the ones with the dogs and horses. You can’t make them do those tricks by force, you teach them to do it for you in exchange for rewards.
That’s how a wild creature is tamed, human or non-human alike.
“I said in a different discussion “Where is motivation? People do not need it, it is replaced by expectation. Why would people need to earn what is granted as a right?” When people earn what they get they not only appresiate it more but they appresiate themselves for the earning.”
Yes, I couldn’t agree more.
As they say, nothing worthwhile comes easy. People squander their gifts and take them for granted. Something that’s just out of reach will always be more desirable, and that which was once just out of reach but is now in our grasp, we do not take for granted because we recognize its true value since we worked for it.
“When we give away livings we create a debt, a debt that says we owe these people a living, and because it is owed them they do not appresiate it, they just expect it. This does not motivate people to earn, it does not give people the opportunity to appresiate earning. It does not encourage the opinion that I gave above, it only gives the option to deny the opinion I gave above.”
This is spot-on.
This debt is the foundation of society. Codependency, what some would call mutual exploitation.
But, while it doesn’t give people the opportunity to learn the wonders of earning, it doesn’t take it away either. It is to be found elsewhere, always was, always will be.
Whether an opinion is encouraged or discouraged shouldn’t be a factor, I know it currently is for the majority, but it really shouldn’t be.
Responsibility begins with a choice. If it was handed to you, if you were pushed into it, is it really responsibility? Isn’t it then just a mindless reaction?
“Generally, if people were taught the opinion I gave above then generally people would avoid the situations that merit welfare, welfare would only exist in the most extenuating circumstances, not create a culture for it. I suppose the phrase the bleeding hearts must learn is “Tough Love”.”
Although I wouldn’t say tough love should be learned, just that the “bleeding heart” mentality should be UNLEARNED.
I reckon truth and sanity are in most cases about subtracting, not adding.
“But on the counter balance, I do believe that people should at least have the opportunity to learn my opinion above and gain the tools to earn, the education and the chance to put that education to work, a failure in providing those opportunities is the real failure I see of society. But that is not always so easy because they still need the basics of survival to keep them alive while they are getting that education.”
I don’t think this is fully accurate. I really don’t see how it’s within the capability of the system to teach something like this, or to prevent people from learning it.
It’s one of life’s own lessons, exposure to real life is the one and only way to learn it. Whether it is encouraged or discouraged does not matter.
They need the basics of survival, but need is usually the only way to progress. By keeping them fed, you take away the incentive to solve the problem. If they can get by anyway, why would they even bother? Unless they’re greedy, it won’t happen.
An eagle mother pushes its own offspring off a branch, the baby eagle has but a brief moment to learn how to fly or it dies. Yet it’s extremely rare that a baby eagle does not succeed at this. The mother does it for the child’s sake, because life as an eagle doesn’t work if you can’t fly.
Primitive tribes send their young boys into the wild to become men, most boys succeed, the tribes would be extinct if they didn’t. Or, yknow, they’d have abandoned that tradition, it probably wouldn’t have become a tradition in the first place.
Humans are at the very top of the food chain for a reason. We’re incredibly able. There’s no need to shelter us, because we can handle most situations pretty well in our free state.
People need to stop being so negative, gotta drop the blaming, gotta realize how powerful they really are.
The only way to have a truly equal and functioning society, is to crush the codependency and envy. A chain consisting only of strong links does not break.
Cooperation will never be anywhere near optimal until people can all stand on their own.
@manimal, That was dark, appalling, glorious and there exists no argument.
I think people are taking what you say about the feminine the wrong way. Femininity isn’t the problem – it’s the fact that femininity is the new standard – it is imbalance.
Let’s not jump to conclusions and say that things were better before – the rampant masculinity that claimed the majority of history past definitely onset this hard collapse, inevitability.
Shit is fucking retarded at the moment but I have faith it will even out.
And yes, +3 to manning the fuck up.
Maybe we need to have another tea party or some shit. Nothing will get done if we sit here and talk about it. We need to make it known that we are NOT ok with our taxes going to these lazy ass people. Our taxes could go to so much more it’s insane. We could have a much better society. So, we have to start somewhere. If only all of us could get together. :p
@manimal, Why do you present this as an issue of masculinity instead of an issue of personal responsibility? The conditioning that makes us believe we are slaves to the system is just as prevalent in women as it is with men.
I see how the values of the modern workplace are all based around passive tolerance and are counterproductive to what is necessary to succeed, but it would be a balance of feminine empathy and masculine initiative that would produce the best results in my opinion.
You could say this lack of self-directed living is born and raised in the masculine obsession of adults to dominate children to stifle their independence. I realize you aren’t saying its all women’s fault, but you don’t really express any image of women that isn’t negative which kind of makes it seem like there isn’t room in this utopia of independence for women.
What is your view on how women should fit into this revolution?
@manimal, Obviously there has to be degrees of co-dependancy, not everyone can be an electrician, not everyone can have the exact same abilities, we do what we are good at and with that capital we earn we can buy the skills off others for the areas we are not knowledgable about, like getting an electrician to fix your wiring. So it is more about contributing to earn to pay your own way, to pay other contributers to earn their own way. Self-sufficiency in an inter-dependant web, kinda sounds contradictory.
@siantastic, You’re no more stuck than you make yourself, by clinging.
Better off financially? Ha! Sitting back and receiving those measly checks, when they could be using their brains and making big dough, is that really better off? It really isn’t, it’s all about laziness and lack of responsibility.
It’s very easy for me to sit here and sey “Hey! Take responsibility and handle your shit, things are only as good as you make them.” And I was one of those worthless junkies, being pumped full of bullshit, having my responsibilities lifted off my shoulders, being lured with instant gratification. I’m just an average human, I made it, anyone can do it. It really isn’t that hard, people are just fucking lazy.
@xyver, If that was the topic, I would. But that’s not the topic of this thread.
@anjelica, Big lol at “being popular is the key to success.” It can only get you so far, and you’ll constantly be depending on others, and they’ll be setting the limits for how “successful” you can get.
That’s not true success. And again, you contradict your earlier statement about being for personal responsibility.
“Up until then, blaming and relying on others makes sense since it is really the only option they are aware they have in many cases.”
Ignorance is a poor excuse.
This whole paragraph of yours is another bit of anti-personal responsibility talk.
“You refer to masculine things as “hard work”. Are feminine activities lazy work?”
Haha no. Everything in its right place, there is a time and a place for masculinity, and a time and a place for femininity. Work is a situation that calls for masculinity, recovering from work calls for femininity.
“I feel like your energy lacks the balance. If you take up all the dominating energy in your environment you are going to force everyone into submission and just be even more pissed off.”
You have no idea what my energy is like or how it feels.
Taking up the dominating energy doesn’t FORCE anyone into submission, submission IS A FUCKING CHOICE. Personal responsibility yknow. I can’t remember the last time I was pissed off.
And yknow, being pissed off is feminine as well.
If I “take up all the dominant energy” that’s me leading by example, showing people how it’s done so they can do it just as well as I do. If people had their shit together, it wouldn’t even be possible to take it all up, everyone would have their fair share because they were all working for it.
“the masculine initiative needs to be complemented by the feminine encouragement of others around us. otherwise you force everyone into the feminized roles and wonder why people rely on you and wont take responsibility.”
Excuse my manners, but that’s just silly.
People choose to rely, I never asked anyone to rely on me. If they can’t take the pressure they’re in the wrong place, and they need to toughen up.
Encouragement is what I do most of the time anyways, however encouragement is a balanced/neutral action, not a feminine one.
that’s a lot of bitching and moaning but no answers…it’s too easy in this world to just complain and comment on how messed up things are and the reasons they are messed up, pick a subject, any subject and you can get the exact same sort of long-winded, opinionated, diatribe…still no solutions…
all that being said i couldn’t disagree more with your opinions…i see where you are pulling your opinions from but feel they are way off base and aimed at the wrong culprits…instead ask yourself why women feel the need to act the way you are describing them to act, why are so many in need of welfare, why do women make .75 cents for every dollar that a man makes, for the exact same job??? a lot more to it sadly then just, ‘they’re lazy’, ‘they’re stupid’, and ‘they’re lazy and stupid’…
@moonglade, Emotional? The “rage” is merely an aesthetic addition, with a purpose.
Hell no I don’t want things to go back to the 50s. But the notion that it was only good for men simply isn’t correct. Women could just kick back and stay at home, a lot of women liked that, a lot of women still do.
The problem here is like a person getting dumped, and immediately going for a rebound who’s the opposite of the previous partner. This women’s movement feel burnt by the old model, and try to escape to the opposite. Of course that’s not sane or functional. If they would succeed they would soon be running back in the opposite direction.
Balance is the key, don’t discard all the of the old to only go with the new. Keep some of the old, discard some of the old, replace with some of the new, ignore some of the new.
Immigration is not related to this topic, and I am not against immigration. Contributing to the economy is not related to this topic.
You’re right about women already having won their war. So what’s the problem? That’s right, they’re fighting windmills now. They whine about disadvantages that don’t exist, they act like victims when there is nothing victimizing them, other than themselves.
Men and women are fully equal, always have been, always will be.
You ask me what change I want in society. Enough of that society stuff, that’s not what this is about. Society this, society that… stop for a moment and take a good look at the situation.
Societal ideals is not the issue, this is about INDIVIDUALS.
It’s PEOPLE, NOT SYSTEMS that need to change.