How to make change in the world/ your government/ your community/etc

2 years, 9 months ago

Hi all-

There is a lot of crazy stuff going on in the world right now to put it mildly. Wars, civil rights battles, financial hell.. How do you all try to make change? What do you think is the most effective way of doing this (whether you personally do this or not): protests, art, voting, talking to people.. When is violence, or is it ever, an okay force in making change?

In Russia there is a very cool protest going on in the form of punk rock, in a way hailing back to when punk rock was protest music in the UK.

http://www.npr.org/2012/02/08/146581790/in-russia-punk-rock-riot-girls-rage-against-putin

I think that art is a very quick way of making a statement- and while I’m sure that signing petitions is a valid way of getting somewhere, it really seems to just add another message to my gmail account..

Alright-thoughts on larger change?

February 26, 2012 at 3:13 pm

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Profile photo of ELI var namnet ELI var namnet (@manimal) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

Taking action, being the change. I doubt anything else will ever work, the problem is with the individuals, not the system itself.

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Profile photo of Jason Jason (@thinknowlivenow) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

I’m with Manimal on this one; too many people wait around thinking lots of people need to agree and force change. Take the initiative and be the spark that creates the fire; people by nature follow, so BE the change you want to see in the world. The only reason things are messed up is because people are FOLLOWING; show them there is a better way to follow!

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

yup, i need help here too. the answer to this (not step by step practical, but indeed possible) that i came up with is Global Consciousness. tht sounds like a distant possibility, but it need not have to be that grand a thing, doesnt have to be the ‘next evolutionary step’…
here’s wats in my head; MY PLAN IS THUS:
if u look at it, a lot of us are brainwashed; im not tokin about the whole we are made consumers by the producers thing at all. im saying, most of us function in life a certain way, and a few common threads can be seen.
what creates this is for a large part, i think, education in institutions. not the primary factor but a huge one. we are taught materialistic things about life in school and there the first brainwashing occurs. this whole chain is put into us really early: why study, so u can get a job, y that, so u can survive, and then die. you have to work and live for urself, and pretty much the whole world is gona shit on your head while you try.
and then we start to realise theres so much more to all this than that, and nbody ever teaches us that, so, its all thot of in the background by every store clerk and CEO, but no action is taken.
now, what if we are taught these things. what if in a eutopian world, we are educated better on the importance of compassion and that the world is a peaceful place, not all that horror and terror that the news mindfucks u with.
if a whole generation is taught with a universal syllabus that prioritizes on being a better human being, wudnt the future be a better place?
we already hav global consciousness, its just fucked up right now. and a LOT of us wanna make it right. with a collective organised effort i think WE CAN
<3

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

Exactly waT jason said: ppl will always follow, so just make sure they follow the right things: the man who said that, Mahatma Gandhi, led an entire nation, and when he died, poof, everything’s back to its lowly corrupted state. there are a lot of great people who made this place like it is now. if they individually can do that, why cant we organise ourselves having the betterment of the world in mind?
——IN SHORT, CHANGE THE WORLVIEW OF THE WORLD. —–

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Profile photo of Sasho Stoyanov Anonymous (@) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

“Example isn’t another way to teach, it is the only way to teach.” – Albert Einstein
Again and again and again. No one’s going to stop asking stupid questions.
Changing someones’ habits is giving them an advice.
Changing someones’ heart is leading by an example.
Seriously, how many times have you tried to change something and it’s still the same?
Now, more on the topic itself. By not trying to live someone elses’ life. By not trying to please anyone and being an example of pleasing myself. By being what I believe. Such a stupid thread. No respect, Kate. :)))))))) By humor.
Don’t hate me when I don’t love you.

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

in sharrrrrrp contrast @Sasho, this is the thread i was waiting for. quit humoring Sasho, i am serious here.
and about actions and examples, i agree, but for awesome action we need an awesome plan. and we’re planning here, if we are not acting :)))))

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Profile photo of  Anonymous (@) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@sasho “Don’t hate me when I don’t love you.”

No worries. Truly not asking for your love =)

I totally agree with the statement that you have to be the change you want to see in the world..but I’m wondering more about larger issues that you have problems with/ issues that are in your life but wayy out of your immediate control. Being the best version of yourself will help, but what about protests, petitions, art as a medium for change, etc? What about larger issues like war and equality?

Does anyone write their senators and governors about what they want to change/why or why not? I haven’t in a long time, but am starting to feel that this apathy is not going to cut it as far as trying to better the world we live in.

As far as protests go, sometimes I feel that the government kind of smiles and nods. The occupy movement has been going on for a long time now, but is very nonspecific- and it makes me wonder what effect protesting actually has unless it is violent (not advocating violent protests, just sayin’)

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Profile photo of Sasho Stoyanov Anonymous (@) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Kate, I have no fear. That’s why the things that I say are connected to everything I do. There is no “deep”. I just lack fear. A poet may say that I sacrifice myself. I say that I do. I’m not a poet. I can only pretend to be one. I can pretend to be anything.
The occupy movement was inspired by Anonymous. Nice to meet you. We love you.

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Profile photo of ELI var namnet ELI var namnet (@manimal) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

Protesting, voting, writing politicians and such doesn’t really solve anything.

What do you really do when you do these things? You give them the power, and you ask them to solve a problem that isn’t really theirs. Not only do they have different intentions with their power, not only would they rather not solve these problems, but even if they tried they couldn’t. Because the problem is within the individuals, nobody can solve it except themselves.

And giving the power and responsiblity away… well that only makes things worse. It’s the cause of the problem. And it also takes away your freedom. People need to take responsibility for themselves and use their power.

99% of the world’s population are dumbed down, ignorant, lazy mobs. The masses. That’s why the world is so messed up. And they’re not that way because some “evil ruler” forced them, it’s the other way around. The only reason there are blinded leaders in the world is because the demand for them is huge. People are lazy, they want comfort and security, they don’t want responsibility, don’t want to make tough decisions, don’t like having to choose, and so on.

That’s why leaders exist. Leaders are only supplying what the masses ask for. “Make me comfortable, make me dumb, take away my responsibilities” that’s what the typical person is constantly asking for. And that’s why the world is messed up.

This society will never be better than it currently is, it’s reached its max potential, and it’s fundamentally flawed and based on corruption. Society is only corrupt because the people in it are corrupt.

The problem is within the individuals, nowhere else. Everything else is just a symptom. Like acne or cancer. Those blemishes and tumors are nothing but results of abusing your body, the problem is the abuse, not the zits and cancerous cells. People cause this to themselves. This society/culture is like a cancer, or a virus. A virus or cancer isn’t evil, it just does what it evolved to do, find host cells and pass on its own genes into it, surviving by leeching off of another organism. That’s what society is. Society is supposed to be a tool for humans, now it’s the other way around (technically it’s still a tool, but people are using it against themselves.)

People are living as followers to an imaginary concept. Society, money, religion, even science, all these things were created as tools for humans to use. But somewhere along the line people decided to be morons and let this shit dictate their lives. Willingly making themselves slaves to something that does not exist.

And as a result, they fuck up the world. But they don’t care, they’re selfish and ignorant and can’t see beyond their nose. They don’t understand cause and effect, or much of anything for that matter. And they seek distractions (tv, videogames, drugs, wealth, being special, whatever) to remain ignorant.

I don’t think you even understand how bad the condition of humanity currently is. It’s not just bad, it’s seriously fucking ultra horrible. But it’s slowly getting better.

Just remember to be the change you want for this world, lead by example. That’s what it all boils down to. Take action, now. Not now = not at all.

Just be great.

Peace

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Profile photo of niv niv (@wabasabi) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

I’m digging this thread. Very eye opening.

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Profile photo of  Anonymous (@) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@manimal Taking action takes many forms. Sometimes taking action means reaching out and trying to connect with someone who might have more power than you. Sometimes it might mean voting for the lesser of the 2 evils. It means different things to everyone, and the statement is very nonspecific.

Due to the fact that the power and responsibility HAS been given away, isn’t it worth it to attempt to sway them in directions that one thinks are morally less corrupt? I don’t think simply living a good life and not following the crowd is necessarily enough. The truth of the matter is, politicians (however corrupt they may be) DO get to make these decisions. And while some of these decisions are completely out of our control and out of their control, some are not. Making connections with people (and politicians ARE people) can make change.

And yes, I am informed of how bad the state of the world is. I assume that everyone on this site is trying to be as well.

(have to go to work and won’t be able to respond til later)

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Profile photo of niv niv (@wabasabi) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Manimal The thing you said about leaders reminds me of the Lao Tzu quote ” “A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves.”

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Profile photo of Jason Jason (@thinknowlivenow) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

Thank you for posting that beast Manimal; took the words right out of my mouth. I always laugh at protesters because they are still playing by the oppressors rules; quietly complaining standing in the cold, asking for permission to be heard. Give me a break.

Protesting is like putting a bandaid over a gunshot wound. Real change lies in TAKING ACTION. Protesting is NOT taking action; protesting is merely complaining while complying with the rules of the system that is oppressing you. You want real change? Stop shopping at chains, buy all your food from local farmers and convert to solar power. Oh wait, that takes effort : (

This thread rules guys!

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

I BELIEVE we can change the world.
manimal is right, its all upto individuals.
my point — churn the INDIVIDUALS out better — check out A.S.Neil’s Summerhill School.
and i was just starting with my education point. for better education, on things that really matter, we need able teachers to do their jobs. in 14 years, i have studied in 7 schools, and i can remember only 2 teachers – because they didnt come to class to teach me English and accountancy, they came because they were awesome human beings who loved to teach each and every student of theirs. we need a lot more of them. the basic qualification for a teacher shouldnt be a bachelor/masters in education (B.Ed/M.Ed in my country), they should be tested if they have an aptitude for teaching and a great EQ, and love for those seeking to learn – that test should be foremost. check out http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/john_hunter_on_the_world_peace_game.html
the same should apply for all jobs – people should be selected based foremost on the goodness in them – and i’m not getting all soft candy over this. good people with the right intentions and attitude to their work and workplace can contribute more than any unwilling slumpy nerd can.
this whole shift, if propogated right, can happen in a couple of generations.
you’re all right. we need ACTION. but its also important to have a PLAN OF ACTION.
thas all

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Profile photo of ELI var namnet ELI var namnet (@manimal) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Jason Fully, man, yeah!

It’s like trying to stop playing world of warcraft, by going on a quest in world of warcraft. You’re still operating in this “world” that was created by what you don’t want, a “world” which is in fact a manifestation of what you don’t want.

This whole political system operates within the paradigm of the bad situation. It can never come out of there, since it’s part of it, caused by it.

Seriously, politics is just a show that the people in power put on to make people think they have a say in the matter, which they don’t. They give you two options which are really the same thing and will get you exactly where they want, this is the first thing you learn to do in NLP, first page of the textbook, oldest most well known trick in there. Yet people ignore it.

But the only reason they deceive and manipulate people is because people are asking to be deceived and manipulated. Demand and supply. The problem isn’t the supply, the demand is the problem. And until that demand is gone, nothing will change.

Because if you really look at the big picture of this, it’s a mutual offering of value, it’s completely equal and it’s a deal that everyone involved has agreed on. “I give you power if you give me distractions. Deal!” People seeking distraction, that’s the calamity of this world. The source of evil is ignorance.

It’s not just the system that’s corrupt, it’s not just the fat cats and politicians, the masses are the most corrupt. Society is just a feedback machine, like an amplifier. If you send shit into an amplifier, you get that shit back manifold, it’s multiplied. So you get mad at the amplifer and scream even louder into the mic, the amplifier multiplies it and feeds it back to you, ignoring that you’re causing the horrible sound coming out of the amp. It’s dumb.

Now if you were to feed something nice into it, it would give that nice stuff back manifold. But you can’t do that to this society, it’s like a broken amp that’s being used by a bunch of idiots, you would have to replace the amp but if you don’t remove the idiots first they will break the new amp immediately and everything will start over.

Fuck society, fuck the system, fuck people, fuck all of it. It’s a sinking ship, stop clinging, swim ashore and build a new ship. The old one was a shitty ship to begin with anyway.

And when I say fuck the system, I don’t mean it the same way that self righteous rebellious teens do. When they say fuck they mean something bad, I don’t. When I say fuck the system I mean penetrate it and fuck it open to god, make it come until it’s completely used up and leave your seed within it, a new society will grow inside it, then it will give birth to this new society, and after that it will crumble while the new society grows. It’s just like fucking.

So, people, go fuck the system, in a good way.

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

yeah, if only everyone had the same idea!^^
i’m all for fucking the system, taking a leaf off Sasho’s books, everytime you improvise your doing exactly that…
what i want to make happen is to let more people be aware of exactly what we’re going on about here. if everyone had this idea, or least, if a lot of people had this idea and were organised, they can make a bigger change. right???
“Now if you were to feed something nice into it, it would give that nice stuff back manifold” agree. but whaT i didnt get is the old amp new amp analogy. in my opinion, there’s no new lamp/ old amp. we’re all here with the idiots and the non-idiots :P
and, do you think this was what every revolution was? — “It’s a sinking ship, stop clinging, swim ashore and build a new ship”

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Profile photo of bruce bruce (@lonebear) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.” –Albus Dumbledore

@mANIMAl: an impressive discourse. You are exactly right, and I can speak from 35 years of experience in corporate America and attempts to change the political system. Couple years ago, we tried to get a new Mayor in Salt Lake City–a guy that was pro-individual rights, and was for reducing the government handouts, strengthening the civil service areas (police, fire, emergency services) and was even going to donate his entire Mayoral salary to charity. Out of 175,000 votes… he got 14. The guy who won, was the one that promised the biggest handouts.

But “fucking the system”, either good or bad, doesn’t work because the system has an unlimited supply of contraceptives. Not much can grow in a system that toxic.

People here have often made references to Tao. Have you ever read the history of Taoism, and the battles they had with Emperors? Got close to 6000 years of history there. Even when they were able to get a system of good, honest, positive feedback and get an emperor that cared more about the people then themselves, it never lasted. Couple generations, tops. Then back to the corruption. This indicates there is a general problem with the existing equipment–the amplifier.

If society keeps repairing the same amplifier, you’ll always end up with the same sound. What is needed is an amplifier that works on a different principle–one that amplifies the ethical aspects of society, and band-blocks the self-serving ones. The existing “equipment” is not capable of doing that, but a new amplifier DOES exist in the upcoming generation–if they ever realize they have it.

I am part of that 50+, “in power” generation. I do not agree with their corporate view of the world, and as such have been somewhat exiled from the system. But–I will squeal on them… the No. 1 thing that my generation fears the most, is the young generation! Afraid that it will wake up, turn off the televisions and cell phones, throw out the drugs and cigs they provide to keep you pacified, and start watching THEM, instead. My generation was raised with the spy era and only knows how to operate in a covert fashion. Without secrecy, they are paralyzed. It is all based on fear–keep those heads in the sand so you can’t see what we’re doing. And “trust me! I know what is best for you!” Yeah, right.

You want to change the world? Then you need a NEW paradigm, not a change to the existing one. And that doesn’t come by “choosing what is easy.”

I am curious… is anyone here familiar with an old BBC TV series called, “The Tomorrow People?”

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

thanks for that Bruce…. haven’t watched “The Tomorrow People” but sounds great! what s it all about?
” the No. 1 thing that my generation fears the most, is the young generation! Afraid that it will wake up, turn off the televisions and cell phones, throw out the drugs and cigs they provide to keep you pacified, and start watching THEM, instead.” Whoa! i hope awakening is what we are doing here, in some small way…

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Profile photo of CosmicLemonade CosmicLemonade (@cosmiclemonade) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

“I got beats and a plan, Im gone do what I can…”

saul

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Profile photo of bruce bruce (@lonebear) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@vishnu: [haven’t watched “The Tomorrow People” but sounds great! what s it all about?]
It is about young people, in their teens and 20s, taking the next step in human evolution to become an ethical, spiritual man, complete with well-developed, psionic abilities–telepathy, telekinesis, teleportation (jaunting) and others. I was a teen back then, and this was one of those shows we raced home from school to watch.

The Tomorrow People had a different paradigm from the “saps” (homo sapiens)–peaceful to where they could not kill, even in self defense, and used rapport for common goals, rather than rivalry and competition (something I still hold true to this day).

For my generation, it represented the best that man could achieve. Though there were only a few Tomorrow People, it was the first step towards a better future. A lot of us tried to make that a reality, but ran into many of the same problems they had on the series.

I mention it here because that show has a new paradigm that could actually work, if the young generation was interested in it. My generation, unfortunately, was unable to pull it off–though some of us continue to try.

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Bruce… whoa…. wish that wasnt just a TV show :)
also, “you need a NEW paradigm, not a change to the existing one.” i cant quite grasp that… how do we create a new paradigm? you mean a new (parallel?) culture shud arise that exists independent of the current one? im seriously clueless here…

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

watching part 1 of tomorrow people on YT now ! episode 1: Vase of mystery :)))

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Profile photo of Jason Jason (@thinknowlivenow) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Bruce; fantastic and enlightening post; your words only confirm my intuition about my generation. I like to refer to it as “generation immune”. I am confident that this generation will be the one to smooth out the power ratio, and at least establish freedom and autonomy for those with the knowledge and responsibility to wield it.

@Vishnu; a paradigm leap is the key, but the transition is very sketchy and will most likely leave A LOT of people confused. Anyone who’s consciously aware will perceive it as a blessing, and those who rely on the current system will perceive it as an apocalypse. But, just like a birth is messy, painful and excruciating; new life waits on the other side.

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

“Anyone who’s consciously aware will perceive it as a blessing, and those who rely on the current system will perceive it as an apocalypse.” that sounds eerily like The Matrix

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Profile photo of Jason Jason (@thinknowlivenow) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Vishnu; I honestly didn’t even consider that when I made that post! I was thinking in terms of people’s perception of change; clinging to old patterns for security reasons etc.

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