How to make change in the world/ your government/ your community/etc

2 years, 9 months ago

Hi all-

There is a lot of crazy stuff going on in the world right now to put it mildly. Wars, civil rights battles, financial hell.. How do you all try to make change? What do you think is the most effective way of doing this (whether you personally do this or not): protests, art, voting, talking to people.. When is violence, or is it ever, an okay force in making change?

In Russia there is a very cool protest going on in the form of punk rock, in a way hailing back to when punk rock was protest music in the UK.

http://www.npr.org/2012/02/08/146581790/in-russia-punk-rock-riot-girls-rage-against-putin

I think that art is a very quick way of making a statement- and while I’m sure that signing petitions is a valid way of getting somewhere, it really seems to just add another message to my gmail account..

Alright-thoughts on larger change?

February 26, 2012 at 3:13 pm

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Profile photo of bruce bruce (@lonebear) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@vishnu: [whoa…. wish that wasnt just a TV show :)]
As they say, “careful of what you wish for…” :-)

[how do we create a new paradigm? you mean a new (parallel?) culture shud arise that exists independent of the current one?]
A paradigm, in the context I am using it, is more of a life philosophy that goes way beyond race, age or culture. It can be considered a “new direction” to the evolutionary pattern of life and it is one that cannot be imposed on you by another–it MUST be a personal, conscious decision. You CHOOSE to say “Enough!” There IS a better way–and you find it for yourself. And curiously enough, the choices those folks end up making are usually in the same direction.

For example, what does a 25-y/o physics student from Bangalore, a lesbian, new age channeler in England, a slaughterhouse operator in New Zealand, a retired teacher in South Africa, and a middle-aged cowboy from Wyoming have in common? Certainly not race, color nor creed… but a new paradigm; one based on many of the principles of The Tomorrow People, with a good mix of Taoism, the Vedas, Christianity, Asatru and many other philosophies throw in… discovering what we have in COMMON, rather than being pushed apart by our differences.

Break apart the current paradigm, and see if those parts are worth keeping. Fear is the biggie–worth keeping? Or would Hope for a better future be the way to go?
How about greed? Big favorite these days. Worth keeping? Anyone that has performed a truly unselfish act would say “no” to that.

My recommendation to the younger generation–and I was one of you folks at one time–don’t waste your energy finding fault with the existing system. Recognize the problems and choose a different direction–one where all involved benefit. It is not easy, but it is also not as hard to accomplish as you may think.

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Profile photo of Sasho Stoyanov Anonymous (@) 2 years, 9 months ago ago
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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

thanks. will bear in mind 24/7, will act toward it. its exactly what i want too. with ssoooooooooo many others.

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Profile photo of bruce bruce (@lonebear) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Jason: [I am confident that this generation will be the one to smooth out the power ratio, and at least establish freedom and autonomy for those with the knowledge and responsibility to wield it]
As Emeril would say, “kick it up a notch.” If you smooth out power, you are just redistributing it. And who will be the judge of “freedom and autonomy” to decide who will wield it? Don’t get trapped in the programming that my generation has pounded into your subconscious.

Answer me this:
Why do people need power?
At what point should one person stop making decisions for another?

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Profile photo of Eric Eric M (@blankey) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Bruce, there is no need for power. The idea of someone being more important and having power over a human being is completely out of line and fucked. People THINK they need power. They want to feel safe and they think governments do that for them.
It’s the same reason why people don’t venture out and meet new people or try to learn new ideas. People want to feel safe and comfortable and they think the best way to do that is to remain with the same group of people and never learn anything new or especially radical.
The only way I can see the human race opening their eyes to the ridiculousness of what is currently going on in the world and how simple it could be to change is through psychedelics. If psychedelics were legal and people were going out in ritualistic style and taking psychotropics, the world would change and progress for the better.
Right now, because the war on drugs exists, we have essentially handed over the keys to our consciousness to the governments. And for what? To keep this system running? This shit system? People need to wake up.
To do so, we need action. Right now. Like many of you have said, lead by example, be blunt, tell people the way you are thinking. It’s all a mind set, people can switch from their animalistic, monkey brain to the intellectual, frontal cortex.

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Profile photo of Jason Jason (@thinknowlivenow) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

Hey Bruce! I didn’t mean to sound hasty in that last post; by autonomy I was simply referring to the rights of the individual to express themselves without fear of OPPRESSIVE rule. I’m all for structure in society, but there is definitely an imbalance between the government/citizen level. “For the people, by the people” should mean more than just voting for the lesser of two evils.

I understand the delusion of a self-governing utopia, but I honestly believe that human have the potential to achieve something very close to this, if the governing officials are actually on the same page. Ideally, it shouldn’t be a master/slave situation at all.

And to answer your question, people don’t need power over anyone else. What we really need is to awaken the power within ourselves, to understand the charade that is humanity. Plants and animals abide by the power of the law of the jungle/Darwinian struggle, but humans absolutely possess a higher potential than mere survival at all costs. We are super animals; let’s start living like it!

And to your second question; I don’t think anyone should be making decisions for anybody but themselves. It’s not the government’s place to tell me what I can and cannot put into my body, nor what kind of health insurance (if desired) I will opt into. The government should behave like a good moderator; stepping in only when there is an issue, and keeping law-abusers at bay. The current model treats citizens like they aren’t responsible enough to make true choices, so we have a babysitter situation.

Of course, most people ARE indeed ignorant, so this is half of the issue.

The problem is, we are now in a situation where the government just leverages EVERY issue as abuse/safety, then convinces the whole to submit freedoms under the guise of national security. THIS is what I am referring to in regards to the power ratio.

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Profile photo of Nick Nick (@nickc2007) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

I think a big part of the problem is the lack of money in education. If teaching were a competitive industry, with kids being given engaging Ted Talk style lessons, it could be completely different, but many teachers are made to feel like failures, and that comes off in the teaching. Granted, there are many brilliant teachers out there, but it could be so much better.

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

with that Nicholas Cotton! if a teacher’s job is considered as important as a scientist’s or a researcher’s then we automatically start getting better, passionate teachers at all levels of education. teaching is one of the most important jobs in all respects: parents teach, teachers teach and we teach ourselves everyday. its no ordinary job! and thats wat we’re downplaying. sigh.
here’s a better way for schools to be run. this also goes with the autonomous power Jason was tokin about: classes shud be made free to attend/ not to. an attendance shud not be taken. that way students will automatically gravitate towards the classes (ted style, love it!) of awesome teachers, and the not so great ones can be weeded out. every student shud also be able to express their opinions towards each class… that way, students are no longer made to ‘sit’ in a class just like how the govt. tells us wat to do.
@Jason… the whole power-slavery thing… completely agree. we are so conditioned into it all we can barely think outside of it. ”Of course, most people ARE indeed ignorant, so this is half of the issue.” the truth is that an astounding number of people want to do something about all this (even though they may not have clarity on what to do)… many of us give up when we see the magnitude of change that is to be brought thinking thats too much. but we sure are not completely deluded by the sweet talk of those in power. my point is that active discussions should be made in order to reach a consensus of all those who want to fight the system. i’m not talking placards and protests, that is just temporary resistance. what i think is we need to have an organised group of people who agree upon the same things (like we’re talking here) wanting the same result (of evening out the power ratio)…. emphasis on ‘same’.. other wise there wud be internal conflict. if such a group of ppl so much as come together, it will be enough to show those in ‘power’ that we are not complete robots that cant think and act outside of the little cage they’ve built for us..
does that make sense, or is it the same thing as repairing the old amplifier, and working within the current paradigm??

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Profile photo of Josh Josh (@yoshknows) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

For me all the very valid points in this thread can be summed up into one very telling quote.

“If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.” -Voltaire

If we believe our best interest our in mind in the current poitical system, well that is just absurd. 90% of folks in western culture have no valid clue of what their best interest even is, or more importantly should be, so they ask for hand outs, and bitch about what they bitched to get. Bitches.

I’m not sure about anyone else is doing, or thinks would be effective, but my friend who’s coming home from living in the Netherlands and me are going to produce a pamphlet of sorts describing 10 elements of the human conditon that are in dire straits. Fracking, Monetary system, GMO’s, Genocides, etc. Any insight into what is critically important will be considered. There is so much wrong with the world that it’s easy to forget all that’s fucked up.

I’m in the brainstorming process as far as format and length, but I want it to be short enough to be easily apsorbed, but informative enough to make an impact. We are going to stand in busy areas of downtown Cincinnati while folks are funneling in and out of special events and baseball games, and hand them out, and possibly have them sign petitions for various causes.

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Profile photo of Jason Jason (@thinknowlivenow) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Josh; your activism is a great idea; those pamphlets sound awesome. My commitment is most obviously through ThinkNowLiveNow; getting those people whom Vishnu mentions are “on the edge”, but just can’t seem to get past the emotional barriers of overwhelming odds. Living a better life for yourself inspires you to help others achieve a similar quality of life.

@Vishnu; I really dig the idea of optional attendance. Modern schooling is essentially academic socialism, whereby classrooms are set by age instead of intellectual capacity, and the stupid kids bring everyone down with them. Yes, I understand we have special placement classes for advanced students, but these classes only exist to further groom the smart yet gullible kids into certain roles in society.

If they had the option to show up, it would then behave more like natural selection; kids with passion for knowledge will get ahead, while the kids who prefer over-socializing will pay natural consequences instead of being rewarded for it.

@Eric; I have no idea how I missed your post on this page; absolute brilliance. Terence McKenna is somewhere off in hyperspace applauding your post at the top of this page : )

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Profile photo of Josh Josh (@yoshknows) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@ Eric: I’ve considered this quite a bit, and let’s imagine for a moment that Timothy Leary never existed and an organic and non-hyped public perception of LSD-25 was allowed to work it’s way through all societal realms. Would the world be a different place? We’d both have to think it certainly would be huh?

I’m of the disposition that Leary was either controlled and or just allowed to flap his jaws about what he thought the true power of the substance was, and it was the catalyst to sway public opinion from neutral or quite often positive, to negative almost overnight.

If everyone experienced this as a requirement it would loose it’s power, but if it was made readily available, and the facts were presented in a non-biased way, people would eventually choose to imbibe and furhtermore, almost every account of the experience would change perceptions, fears, doubts and societal obstacles. Psliocybin could have nearly the same effect, and it’s effects are written in history, as well as highly speculated as the eye of the universe in preshistory as well. DMT and ayauascha to boot, which is a whole other rant.

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Profile photo of bruce bruce (@lonebear) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Jason [I’m all for structure in society, but there is definitely an imbalance between the government/citizen level.]
I’m old enough to have seen that when it was a gap, not a chasm. It is called “over-socialization.” Currently, government grabs you as young as possible to get you away from family ties and puts themselves in the position of surrogate parents–and makes sure you never grow up and lose that dependency. They want you to be old enough to mow the lawn, but not old enough to make decisions.

In some cultures, like India, this technique is devastating to the young, as their traditional, family values are being cut right at the source. I think @vishnu would understand that; I’ve talked with a number of Indians over the years and their top conflict is “family obligation” versus “personal desires.” And that ties back in to my initial question regarding “power.”

@Jason [people don’t need power over anyone else. What we really need is to awaken the power within ourselves, to understand the charade that is humanity.]
It was a bit of a trick question, as most people will take the stance of “no power” (as in Eric) or totalitarian rule. I’ve watched this process for a long time, so let me pass on my observations:

1. You cannot awaken that which you have voluntarily given away.
2. We have a NEED for power, as do all biological organisms–the power to control our own survival.

Think about it carefully. Examine the terminology, “those in power,” “the powers that be”… they did not take the power, you gave it to them with your IMPLIED consent, which is a fundamental principle of the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code)–the international rulebook to govern the world as a corporation. The law is clear: if you don’t disagree, then you agree. And “ignorance of the law is no excuse,” so they don’t actually have to go out of their way to make things publicly known. As I said, mine is the “covert” generation–always keep that in mind.

Few people control their own survival these days. How many of you live on a self-sufficient farm or ranch? If your money is cut off, how long will you last? This constant worry, conscious or subconscious, generates the fear that is used for control. What is needed it to RECLAIM that power, and that is done through knowledge, intelligence and experience.

What @mANIMAl described is exactly correct, and the feedback being sent into the governing system is “you are responsible for my survival, not me, whatever the cost.” What would happen with a paradigm that sent the signal, “I don’t need you; I can do it myself?”

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Profile photo of Jason Jason (@thinknowlivenow) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Bruce; I am well aware of what you are saying, and I have stated in numerous threads that the people are half of the problem.

I have not held a formal job in over six months, and I make my money by directly helping local businesses until I get my own income streams up and running. Yes, I make less right now, but I am not pumping my excess funds into supporting the very systems and company’s destroying this planet. If everyone did this, we’d make a huge dent.

Again, this is why I am constantly hammering that everything is choice; your choice to perceive the atrocities of this world as a victim or a warrior is just as valid as your choice of what clothes to wear today. Problem is, people only care about the later, while remaining unaware that they are actually choosing in the first place. Choosing not to choose via ignorance and denial is STILL A CHOICE!

I do not have a cellphone or even a car at this moment in time, two things I accept living without temporarily while I establish my footing and set up MY systems. Of course I will have a car and a cellphone in the future, but how I pay for them won’t be the result of “asking for a raise” from the puppet masters, or trading hours for dollars at some corporate chain that does nothing but soak up resources so that I can text my friends about “last nights game”.

The entire purpose of my website is to get people into the state of mind which you are describing : )

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Josh… just yesterday i came across something somewhere (electronic media jamming my senses!) of the kind of atrocities you mentioned, and i thought how the FUCK is anyone okay with that?!!! when did it start becoming okay for shit like this to happen? seriously… unimaginable shit happens everywhere everyday and thats just the things that get ”media (the fuckin hypocritic media) attention’…
yours is a brilliant idea, and i shud do that here as well. i’ll contribute my ideas to this thing… and when its done, if u dont mind send it here as well for distribution. LETS DO SOME SHIT! seriously, diggin that idea.

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Profile photo of bruce bruce (@lonebear) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Nicholas [Granted, there are many brilliant teachers out there, but it could be so much better.]
As a former High School teacher, I’d like to comment on this. In the US, schooling is already about profit, not education. Teachers are paid to entertain the kids to fill the seats, because each filled seat is $1800 of government money for the school’s owners, per class. Probably more now, as I’ve been out of it for a while.

And if you actually educate the kids, you get yelled at or fired. I used to get sent to the principal more often than the kids did, and got fired after I taught my computer class about how inflation works–prior to their economics debate. (Man, was she pissed at me–red in the face–you guys aren’t supposed to know how government steals your savings.) Another excellent teacher friend of mine got fired, just a couple years ago, for saying a student gave a wrong answer. Student was hurt, complained to parents, and parents complained to school. Fired the next day.

Heaven forbid you actually grade students on their work, so they can find out what needs improvement! In my day, we got percentage grades. These days, you can’t do that… the lowest “grade” you can give is BTU – “Beginning To Understand.” What a crock.

Dumping more money into teacher salaries will just give you a better class of entertainer–not a good education. These days, your best option is to teach yourself.

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Profile photo of Jason Jason (@thinknowlivenow) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

^Bruce, that was the best thing I’ve read all morning : )

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

forgive the ignorance, but who decides the kind of education and syllabus to be taught thru school in the US?
in india we have 2 types of schools – govt, private. govt schools have govt syllabus and private schools follow Central Board of Secondary Education (cbse) syllabus. both suck. its just feeding information via textbooks and asking them to regurgitate onto the exam paper thrice a year. there. you got a pass. or a fail.
i think a lot can be done to the society’s world view (to make them more aware of what really matters, making them better human beings, and better planetary citizens) by changing school level education. those folks up at these educaTion boards shud have a revamp.
please please please check this link i give you. its about A.S.Neil’s (experimental) school called Summerhill. this shud how schools shud be like… he has written a book on his school too. change is fuckin possible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerhill_School

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Profile photo of bruce bruce (@lonebear) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Jason [that was the best thing I’ve read all morning ]
I just found your web site… best thing I’ve read all morning.

@vishnu: there are 3 types of schools here, public (government, curricula decided by the National Education Association), private religious (decided by church, but heavily influenced by NEA), and private corporate (in it for the government money, so “by the book”). I will check out your link.

I attended Catholic school, and got an excellent education from the brothers and sisters, because it was their vocation–they didn’t get paid to teach, they did it because they enjoyed it. Perhaps the solution is to REDUCE teacher’s salaries–that way, you’ll only get people with a passion for teaching!

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Profile photo of Jason Jason (@thinknowlivenow) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

@Bruce; I attended public and Catholic school as well. Your idea of salary reduction co-incides with Vishnu’s idea of optional attendance. People who actually want to teach and learn, instead of a half-ass mix of social confusion under the guise of political correctness and education.

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

oh man, this revolution in education and workplaces (where they take ppl in by their human value as priority no.1 ) shud happen. will contribute a lot right????

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Profile photo of Jason Jason (@thinknowlivenow) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

The only thing really stopping a revolution is the corporate/government stranglehold, and people’s consequential apathy regarding change. It’s a Chinese finger-trap.

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Profile photo of daveb daveb (@daveb) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

This thread has been an interesting read. I agree that change is needed and asking the current political structure to make those changes is a waste of our energy. being the change is vital, but has one flaw. it’s reach is often limited to the people we interact with frequently enough to inspire to change. how do we spread a message to a wider (and largely apathetic) audience?

there are two sides: one, is it right for us to want or expect others to change to fit the world-view we think is necessary to thrive in the coming century? even in HE, we have some pretty differing viewpoints on problems and solutions.

Second – if we believe we’re in the right to push large-scale change, how do we reach the herd? This balance: “I want it to be short enough to be easily absorbed, but informative enough to make an impact” is so difficult to attain in any kind of generic communication. when you’re passing out info to a more or less random group of people, you’re going to get tons of misses.

here’s what bugged me about Occupy. They got everybody’s attention, and what did they ask everyone to do? Listen, instead of giving a direction to act. Same thing with Obama, he motivated a huge base of people during the election, but then didn’t issue much of a call to action, and didn’t take definitive action himself, either.

I have no immediate solution. how to grab attention and deliver a message? the crop circles would have worked. maybe the “loud noises in the sky” crowd are going to use the attention they’re drawing to inspire change. Some kind of coordinated worldwide hoax/action that grabs everyone’s attention and then has a real message instead of a gotcha or paranoid conspiracy theory at it’s core . . . like 10,000 HEthens conducting coordinated acts of kindness and beauty across the world until they go viral and the true meaning is unveiled.

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

DAVEB!!!!
oh man, this thing: “is it right for us to want or expect others to change to fit the world-view we think is necessary to thrive in the coming century? even in HE, we have some pretty differing viewpoints on problems and solutions.”
i was thinking it was not right but i was too desperate to find a quick practical solution.
and thank you thank you thank you for this timely intervention on this thread.
“Some kind of coordinated worldwide hoax/action that grabs everyone’s attention and then has a real message instead of a gotcha or paranoid conspiracy theory at it’s core . . . like 10,000 HEthens conducting coordinated acts of kindness and beauty across the world until they go viral and the true meaning is unveiled.”
i think it is upon us. tine stated the same here, http://www.highexistence.com/discussions/topic/are-we-not/
we inspire each other too much anyway, lets do some shit. i am soooooo in. and thanks for imbedding the 10,000 number there.
we are approaching that, and as a celebration of sorts, but more importantly, to make a change, thats wat we shud do. 10,000 (or whatever amount of us) HEthens CONDUCTING COORDINATED ACTS OF KINDNESS. +++++++++++
LETS DO THIS.

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Profile photo of vishnu vishnu (@vizznou) 2 years, 9 months ago ago

this is like pay it forward, the movie….
ok 10,000 is too less a number worldwide, and even lesser number is gna sign up… so we need to come up with something that really hits harrrrrd, penetrates through all the BS… or something that wud inspire more and more ppl to make this a chain reaction, not just the initial 10,000!

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