I find our current topic article offensive…
Which bit is exactly nonsense?
Kayne- It;s nonsense to equate being socially inept to being a little girl. Isn’t that what I just said?
Funny kirsten cos i never said that. this discussion evolved into a discussion of literal interpretations regardless of context. which ironically is exactly what you’ve done.
Martin – ooohhh…I exposed myself :P
Oh and 1 I read the article
And 3: Opiions don’t really matter that much to me. But by your reaction to my comments I can see that you come from a very EGO-based position, Martin.
ps. I didn’t expose anything about myself except for my honesty.
what the hell are you talking about? you’re literally saying that i said something that i didn’t…
no i’m not.
“You were challenged for saying little girls are socially inept.”
No i wasn’t, nor did i say that or even imply it…
Yes you did say that. You used the analogy of being a little girl to describe being socially inept. And if you can’t see that this is what you have been challenged on I don’t know how I can help you see that. Just accept that I think it was a poor choice of words and I am entitled to that perspective. Probably if you were smart you would admit fault and apologize…but I feel that your pride is getting in the way.
The way your first post is written it could be ambiguously stated you agree with me over Martin and can rise above the situation, agree with Martin over me and you see my argument as nonsense, or agree with Martin but still see my statements as valid, but that our argument is nonsense.
However negative intent is completely irrelevant. Anyone can intend to do or mean good things but do wrong things by mistake or without knowing. This other message is not missed, it is very clear the person speaking dislike being socially inept or shy. However you are yet to give a single reason as to how equating this trait to young women is remotely justifiable.
Em, i didn’t say that though. the original article didn’t even say that. rain said just that and was the only one who did. which is something i didn’t address because i disagree with that point but didn’t find it incendiary enough to warrant response. also she’d know better than me cos she’s a mother anyways.
I’m almost 100% certain Martin is defending the use of language in the article, but has not stated it himself.
whoops…i DID think Martin wrote the article. My bad ;D
|General Tits Von Chodehoffen|
I joined this site just because I found it ridiculous that someone felt so offended by such a silly thing that they decided to complain online. Anyways, I only read a few of Kayne’s arguments because they were boring, but the first videos she posted were the best. She clearly wants to show how tough and badass women can be. You think ay of those women could beat a male pro fighter in their weight class? If you answered yes you need to sit down and watch some K-1/ UFC. There are plenty of examples of things women can do better then men but she picked fighting like a fucking idiot. If I came into this argument thinking Martin was being an asshole I would probably support the whole “lets stop using little girl in a negative way” thing. Until then I hope Kayne stops shitting her pants over nothing.
Ok, Kayne, I will argue your point. You stated that “The fact is he likened being a little girl to being a bad thing, regardless of the context.”; Which is not actually correct. He likened being a little girl to being shy. It is up to the reader to determine whether or not they find shyness, or being like a little girl, as bad or negative. You said yourself that he could have restated the question as “Are you tired of being shy?” – paraphrased. So now we have taken our own meaning which is that little girls are shy. Little girls could also be hyper, talkative, and even manipulative(some girls learn early). Now, what I have just done is stereotyped little girls (still going with under the age of 10) into a category having the previously stated traits. If those traits are incorrect as for the average, please inform me. No one said that any of those traits were bad, except you. The article is actually posing a question and giving advice for those of whom said “yes, I am tired of being shy.”.
Remember that stereotypes do not mean that every person in the group has the associated qualities, just the average. It is a generalization, meaning that it has general application, not absolute application.
I’m guessing your next response will be something to the degree that, the writer of the article is directly relating being a little girl to being a bad thing by saying “are you tired of being a little girl”. To this I say “are you tired of being smart?” “are you tired of being attractive?” “are you tired of having money, and being able to buy things?”. – I used such extreme examples to illustrate that any word or words put into the phrase in place of “little girl”, could then be taken negatively; or not, it all depends on the reader. I hope you are aware that some people are actually tired of being attractive, tired of being smart, or tired of having money. – each of these comes with it’s own positive and negative side.
Russ: if you are tired of being attractive, having money and being smart could you pass those things onto me? I would really appreciate it :D
Kayne is a guy. Welcome to point proven via assumptions. Did you even look at my profile? As for the fighting video, it was meant to be funny, rather then serious. I honestly didn’t expect anyone to answer, as gender discussions until recently never take off. Not anyones fault, we just didn’t have an audience for it in the broader membership who was one during the same times of day as I. The videos are completely separate from my argument, and the fact I’m not writing an article on the subject or in any way making some sort of general public statement with them sort of invalidates your use of them against me. Say I had an extremely sexist profile picture maybe, but a few embedded videos?
And on that note do you have a point somewhere? What invalidates martial skill from my argument anyway? Or the performance of martial skill? To place oneself on the internet as a sports competitor or to compete in live arenas shows a large amount of social security. Again these things are not meant to tied to my argument but at the same time I fail to see how they detract.
What? No. If a person is writing an article, news story, anything at all meant for the general public it is on THEM to write effectively. If you re a writer and you rely on your audience being able to decipher what you wrote, then you are a poor writer. Effective writing is about putting your message across.
Now the exception to that is poetry or other forms of writing which are cryptic by nature. But this was a self help article. Which implies in it’s opening lines we need help to not be childish, physically small and feminine in social interactions, not that people need to not be shy. One cannot equate ‘little girls’ with whatever they want, but it doesn’t change the nature of the article.
Just FYI while I am passionate about this kind of thing, I am not at all butt hurt, or even complaining really. I’m looking for academic and enlightened discussion on the topic. I used our title article as an amazingly circumstantial on hand item to use as example. I bear the author of the article no ill will so to speak, but I do believe the language used in the article is inappropriate.
|General Tits Von Chodehoffen|
No I didn’t look at your profile, but after taking a quick look I wouldn’t have read that novel you wrote about yourself anyways. Yes I did assume you were a girl because of the argument you were making, but your picture also looks kind of feminine.
As for the videos why include them if you didn’t have a reason to do so? My point was that those videos in no way help your argument and also that it seems you did get a little butt hurt. Finding offense in tiny little things is for people who don’t have more important shit to do. However, you did use “butt hurt,” one of my favorite phrases, so I guess I can stop hating so hard.
Words are just words. And you really honed in on the most minute part of the whole article.
Women are great. Men are great. We’re all great. Everyone is different. One thing that makes us different is gender. It’s not that fucking complicated.
This discussion should have ended after Rain posted her four responses.
In the real world (not the ideologically argumentative one), little girls are less socially dominate than more aggressive men and women. Some women are more socially dominate than some men through the sheer amount of shit that comes out of their mouths. Some men are dominate through excessive volume and physical presence. There are many factors to social badassery that cannot be attributed to any single gender, race, culture, or personality type. I’ve met people who can drive a conversation without saying more than a few sentences.
It’s relative, but in conceptualizing a social badass, you must acknowledge what the opposite is. The honest truth is that when you think of the term badass you do not think of a little girl. That is not to say little girls cannot be badass or are always less strong (or have less potential for strength). There is sexism in the world, but theres not so much on HE that we should be reduced to indulging in such a petty argument.
|General Tits Von Chodehoffen|
Well said Aaron
I just love that I didn’t assume Kayne’s gender one way or the other. :)
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