I find our current topic article offensive…

Homepage Forums HighExistence.com I find our current topic article offensive…

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Avatar of Kayne Wong
Kayne Wong (@kayne)    3 years, 2 months ago

Thats called a simile and is a very different thing to a metaphor (the main one being that the word after "as" in a simile is a literal reference). find a metaphor like that which works and then we’d be talking about the same thing. but as it stands. you’re talking about 2 different things and don’t really understand what they are. so go ahead and beat your drum. bleat like the stupid sheep you are. There’s no talking to you. earlier you claimed that we were engaged in debate. we weren’t. i was laying out how it was and you were going "bah bah bah, my bull dyke mom told me blah blah blah". grow the fuck up, or at least learn how to think.
*wanders off*

0 votes, posted 05.26.2011 at 10:27 pm
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Avatar of
Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Kayne- It;s nonsense to equate being socially inept to being a little girl. Isn’t that what I just said?

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Avatar of Martin Walsh
Martin Walsh (@kakistos)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Funny kirsten cos i never said that. this discussion evolved into a discussion of literal interpretations regardless of context. which ironically is exactly what you’ve done.
step 1 read the featured article
step 2 read the content of this thread
step 3 tell someone who cares cos you just exposed yourself as someone who values their own opinion so greatly that they don’t even bother to see if they are talking about the same thing or not. you’re the one on an unrelated tangent.

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Avatar of
Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Martin – ooohhh…I exposed myself :P

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Avatar of
Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Oh and 1 I read the article
and 2 I read the thread.

And 3: Opiions don’t really matter that much to me. But by your reaction to my comments I can see that you come from a very EGO-based position, Martin.

ps. I didn’t expose anything about myself except for my honesty.

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Avatar of
Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

*opinions

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Avatar of Martin Walsh
Martin Walsh (@kakistos)3 years, 2 months ago ago

what the hell are you talking about? you’re literally saying that i said something that i didn’t…

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Avatar of
Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

no i’m not.

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Avatar of Martin Walsh
Martin Walsh (@kakistos)3 years, 2 months ago ago

“You were challenged for saying little girls are socially inept.”
- Kirsten

No i wasn’t, nor did i say that or even imply it…

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Avatar of
Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Yes you did say that. You used the analogy of being a little girl to describe being socially inept. And if you can’t see that this is what you have been challenged on I don’t know how I can help you see that. Just accept that I think it was a poor choice of words and I am entitled to that perspective. Probably if you were smart you would admit fault and apologize…but I feel that your pride is getting in the way.

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Avatar of Kayne Wong
Kayne Wong (@kayne)3 years, 2 months ago ago

The way your first post is written it could be ambiguously stated you agree with me over Martin and can rise above the situation, agree with Martin over me and you see my argument as nonsense, or agree with Martin but still see my statements as valid, but that our argument is nonsense.

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Avatar of Kayne Wong
Kayne Wong (@kayne)3 years, 2 months ago ago

@Kirsten
I think the issue here is you may think Martin wrote the article. To my understanding all our front page articles are written or found by Jordan.

@Martin
I think you place too much weight on intent and don’t understand subversiveness. Because while the subconscious does not ‘think’ in words, it responds to them. More so then we do consciously. Our use of language should be very well tied to our sensibilities because it is how we communicate larger, complex ideas. You keep insisting I am missing nuances, but what nuance is there to miss? an you explain even remotely how the language here is so unclear that I am missing out on some kind of meaning? I doubt you could, because there seems to me to be no rational, logical leg to stand on. No one is yet to produce a single shred of evidence that there isn’t something offensive about the statement. Just that culturally/socially it seems to be okay to make such remakes because there isn’t any negative intent. There is some other message to be put forth.

However negative intent is completely irrelevant. Anyone can intend to do or mean good things but do wrong things by mistake or without knowing. This other message is not missed, it is very clear the person speaking dislike being socially inept or shy. However you are yet to give a single reason as to how equating this trait to young women is remotely justifiable.

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Avatar of Martin Walsh
Martin Walsh (@kakistos)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Em, i didn’t say that though. the original article didn’t even say that. rain said just that and was the only one who did. which is something i didn’t address because i disagree with that point but didn’t find it incendiary enough to warrant response. also she’d know better than me cos she’s a mother anyways.
you seem to have some idea that just because you accuse someone of being egotistical or prideful thats whats actually going on or that i should be so fearful of you interpreting me as such that i would acquiesce to your misinterpretation which is quite frankly, egotistical and prideful. i know what i said, i know what i meant. but ok, quote me, the bit where i said what you’re saying i said. surely not an impossible task…

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Avatar of Kayne Wong
Kayne Wong (@kayne)3 years, 2 months ago ago

I’m almost 100% certain Martin is defending the use of language in the article, but has not stated it himself.

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Avatar of
Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

whoops…i DID think Martin wrote the article. My bad ;D

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Avatar of General Tits Von Chodehoffen

I joined this site just because I found it ridiculous that someone felt so offended by such a silly thing that they decided to complain online. Anyways, I only read a few of Kayne’s arguments because they were boring, but the first videos she posted were the best. She clearly wants to show how tough and badass women can be. You think ay of those women could beat a male pro fighter in their weight class? If you answered yes you need to sit down and watch some K-1/ UFC. There are plenty of examples of things women can do better then men but she picked fighting like a fucking idiot. If I came into this argument thinking Martin was being an asshole I would probably support the whole “lets stop using little girl in a negative way” thing. Until then I hope Kayne stops shitting her pants over nothing.

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Avatar of russ
russ (@russellc)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Ok, Kayne, I will argue your point. You stated that “The fact is he likened being a little girl to being a bad thing, regardless of the context.”; Which is not actually correct. He likened being a little girl to being shy. It is up to the reader to determine whether or not they find shyness, or being like a little girl, as bad or negative. You said yourself that he could have restated the question as “Are you tired of being shy?” – paraphrased. So now we have taken our own meaning which is that little girls are shy. Little girls could also be hyper, talkative, and even manipulative(some girls learn early). Now, what I have just done is stereotyped little girls (still going with under the age of 10) into a category having the previously stated traits. If those traits are incorrect as for the average, please inform me. No one said that any of those traits were bad, except you. The article is actually posing a question and giving advice for those of whom said “yes, I am tired of being shy.”.

Remember that stereotypes do not mean that every person in the group has the associated qualities, just the average. It is a generalization, meaning that it has general application, not absolute application.

I’m guessing your next response will be something to the degree that, the writer of the article is directly relating being a little girl to being a bad thing by saying “are you tired of being a little girl”. To this I say “are you tired of being smart?” “are you tired of being attractive?” “are you tired of having money, and being able to buy things?”. – I used such extreme examples to illustrate that any word or words put into the phrase in place of “little girl”, could then be taken negatively; or not, it all depends on the reader. I hope you are aware that some people are actually tired of being attractive, tired of being smart, or tired of having money. – each of these comes with it’s own positive and negative side.

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Avatar of
Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Russ: if you are tired of being attractive, having money and being smart could you pass those things onto me? I would really appreciate it :D

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Avatar of Kayne Wong
Kayne Wong (@kayne)3 years, 2 months ago ago

@General

Kayne is a guy. Welcome to point proven via assumptions. Did you even look at my profile? As for the fighting video, it was meant to be funny, rather then serious. I honestly didn’t expect anyone to answer, as gender discussions until recently never take off. Not anyones fault, we just didn’t have an audience for it in the broader membership who was one during the same times of day as I. The videos are completely separate from my argument, and the fact I’m not writing an article on the subject or in any way making some sort of general public statement with them sort of invalidates your use of them against me. Say I had an extremely sexist profile picture maybe, but a few embedded videos?

And on that note do you have a point somewhere? What invalidates martial skill from my argument anyway? Or the performance of martial skill? To place oneself on the internet as a sports competitor or to compete in live arenas shows a large amount of social security. Again these things are not meant to tied to my argument but at the same time I fail to see how they detract.

@Russ

What? No. If a person is writing an article, news story, anything at all meant for the general public it is on THEM to write effectively. If you re a writer and you rely on your audience being able to decipher what you wrote, then you are a poor writer. Effective writing is about putting your message across.

Now the exception to that is poetry or other forms of writing which are cryptic by nature. But this was a self help article. Which implies in it’s opening lines we need help to not be childish, physically small and feminine in social interactions, not that people need to not be shy. One cannot equate ‘little girls’ with whatever they want, but it doesn’t change the nature of the article.

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Avatar of Kayne Wong
Kayne Wong (@kayne)3 years, 2 months ago ago

@Everyone

Just FYI while I am passionate about this kind of thing, I am not at all butt hurt, or even complaining really. I’m looking for academic and enlightened discussion on the topic. I used our title article as an amazingly circumstantial on hand item to use as example. I bear the author of the article no ill will so to speak, but I do believe the language used in the article is inappropriate.

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Avatar of General Tits Von Chodehoffen

@ Kayne

No I didn’t look at your profile, but after taking a quick look I wouldn’t have read that novel you wrote about yourself anyways. Yes I did assume you were a girl because of the argument you were making, but your picture also looks kind of feminine.

As for the videos why include them if you didn’t have a reason to do so? My point was that those videos in no way help your argument and also that it seems you did get a little butt hurt. Finding offense in tiny little things is for people who don’t have more important shit to do. However, you did use “butt hurt,” one of my favorite phrases, so I guess I can stop hating so hard.

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Avatar of Vinh
Vinh (@vinh)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Words are just words. And you really honed in on the most minute part of the whole article.

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Avatar of CosmicLemonade
CosmicLemonade (@cosmiclemonade)3 years, 2 months ago ago

Women are great. Men are great. We’re all great. Everyone is different. One thing that makes us different is gender. It’s not that fucking complicated.

This discussion should have ended after Rain posted her four responses.

In the real world (not the ideologically argumentative one), little girls are less socially dominate than more aggressive men and women. Some women are more socially dominate than some men through the sheer amount of shit that comes out of their mouths. Some men are dominate through excessive volume and physical presence. There are many factors to social badassery that cannot be attributed to any single gender, race, culture, or personality type. I’ve met people who can drive a conversation without saying more than a few sentences.

It’s relative, but in conceptualizing a social badass, you must acknowledge what the opposite is. The honest truth is that when you think of the term badass you do not think of a little girl. That is not to say little girls cannot be badass or are always less strong (or have less potential for strength). There is sexism in the world, but theres not so much on HE that we should be reduced to indulging in such a petty argument.

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Avatar of General Tits Von Chodehoffen

Well said Aaron

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Avatar of
Anonymous (@)3 years, 2 months ago ago

I just love that I didn’t assume Kayne’s gender one way or the other. :)

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Avatar of Kayne Wong
Kayne Wong (@kayne)3 years, 2 months ago ago

@Aaron
I’m not looking for an argument. I,m looking for discussion. Martin, Russ and I were discussing it, albeit a debate format. However it WAS and IS still only discussion.

@Vinh
It`s the topic sentence. It’s what the entirety of an article or essay should be judged on to some degree on it’s effectiveness and appropriateness. Not only is being a girl/woman, child or small totally not mutually inclusive to the idea of not being a ‘bad ass’ (social or otherwise), but through use of pictures, role models and language through the article it only compounds the nature of the opening statement.

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