What if government didn't exist?
if we weren’t country’s but we were individual people life would be so much cooler instead of war were millions of people die there would be duels between small groups of people it would be like skyrim but in real life now wouldent that be cool
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I don’t like the government much, but nevertheless I think we need something to protect us from the elite/big business. I know the government isn’t even doing much now to help us with that, but with no regulations at all, I think they would give us all a ride on the meat train six ways to Sunday. Food would be made even more cheaply and with even less regard for safety/nutrition because it would be cheaper to do so, car safety would go out the window, there would be no one to enforce pollution laws, and no one to break up monopolies, just to name a few things. There’d be no social welfare programs either, and nothing to defend the weakest members of society from the strongest, I simply don’t think enough people would care to pitch in. Then again maybe it is because people think the government will rescue them that we let things get so bad. It’s like recess, the elite are the school bully, we’re the little nerdy guy, and government is the teacher who’s supposed to make sure the big kids aren’t beating the crap out of the rest of us.
Our Prime minister, here in Australia, and her political party wanted to introduce a law, or bill, or whatever, and she was taken to court and it was found to be in discordance with a U.N regulation, even though the U.N had condoned the action. So tell me, as far as making laws what is it exactly that the government does that a court of law cannot?
@thelaughingfool, Stefan Molenuex covers these issues and many more thoroughly.
He is highly rational, isn’t ‘just another guy’ and isn’t there to waste time.
19 Tough Questions for Libertarians:
He argues from first principal; that being ‘The non-initiation of force.’
Government isn’t the only way to solve problems.
Then again I am for lower taxes though, especially as it rates to top public servants’ pay, and some of the benefits they get are simply obscene. I vehemently disagree with public servants living like rock stars off the taxpayers’ expense.
As long as there are problems that only a few can solve, there will be the construct of leaders and followers. And moreso in a monetary system where it is to the advantage of the few leaders to place a monetary value on the solution of the problem, then the construct will continue to be sustained. The only way a world without government could exist is if people freely shared the solutions to problems with everyone, and everyone was enlightened enough to be interdependent and equally valuable socially. To remove the concept of government, you’d have to also remove the concepts of money and property as well. Otherwise, as pointed out before, a government system would inevitably return.
@giraffe, It’s taking me a while to get through your video link. It’s hard for me to focus through his Rush Limbaugh levels of arrogance and misinformation. I’ve only listened to ten of the questions he’s “applying logic to”, but so far, he hasn’t gotten one right. I will now take the time to prepare a rebuttal to his arguments. It may take a while.
once a rebel asked me: isn’t trespassing a fun?
and i never replied him
whether its GOVT. or individuals .. its composed of humans
and every one has got his addictions (by the passage of time)
whether its power, virtue , money , intellectualism or crime
Government is a monopoly of power, you don’t NEED government to make roads, schools, fire departments, or any of those services.
Any service or product deemed worthy enough to create demand will be met with people willing to spend money on it. If people want or need it, they will barter, pay, work to get it.
As long as there are people who want power (“leaders”) and there are others who need to have some type of cohesion and rules in their lives, there will be some type of government or a set of established cultural norms that they are willing to follow.
No doubt there are people prepared for an anarchy situation, such would become probably localized but no less dictators. You would have a feudalism not long after anarchy. Be it a gang feudalism or some kind of corporate feudalism, probably a bit of both. This chain of command thing is pretty much inevidable.
A one world government would be religated strictly to international affairs, if one ever happened. This means that the 3 current levels of government, local/mayoral, state/governoral and federal/presidential would not become obsolete. The only thing that would change is that presidential would be predominantly religated to domestic national affairs.
@giraffe, I don’t have time at the moment to counter all his arguments. I have other things to do you know. Still, here’s my response to the first 4 questions raised:
John Stewart: Is Government the Antithesis of Liberty?
Stefan Molyneux: Governments do not exist. The initiation of force (or people with guns chasing people without guns) is the antithesis of morality and liberty.
Me: How fascinating. So you subscribe to the vision of the government being the steel toed boot on the neck of the hardworking man robbed of his livelihood. I honestly thought that vision went out with the hand painted Nazi propaganda fliers. Maybe I need to see more of his videos, but what I’m getting here is that a government cannot exist without taking away the rights of the people it’s sworn to protect. Well, yeah, that’s kind of how the social contract works. Every enlightened philosopher who you seem to be drawing morals and ideas from said as much. Rousseau, Locke, Hobbs. And the clincher is that we agreed to this. There are some who disagree with this, and we tend to put them in jails for murdering, robbing, and raping.
John: One of the things that enhances freedoms is roads; Infrastructure enhances freedom; A social safety net enhances freedom (Not sure what the question here was).
Stefan: Freedom isn’t the goal. Morality is the goal. Also, things like welfare give you the opportunity to make bad choices like not completing your education or having too many kids when you can’t afford to have them. It doesn’t matter what the results are. What matters is morality.
Me: Hey jack ass, sit and spin. I personally know some people who are struggling to raise their kids. They didn’t drop out of college and get pregnant because they saw all that welfare money out there and said “Goodness Gracious, I could live like a queen if I took advantage of the system.” They’re not in a bad situation because we have a safety net. They’re in a bad situation because we don’t have a big enough one. Oh, and let’s see how long it takes for you to start asking for freedom again.
John: What should we do with the losers who are picked by the free market?
Stefan: There are two kinds of “losers”; those who are mentally unable to cope and those who bet wrong on their choices. But we have charities for the former (so we don’t need a welfare system) and the latter made a choice. Freedom is risk.
Me: Well that didn’t take long. So do you want freedom or morality, and don’t get greedy on me now. You just made a point that freedom can be countered by morality. Freedom to take risks includes the risk that you will be put into slavery to pay off your debts from your get rich quick scheme. Make up your mind. By the way, those friends I mentioned earlier. Some of them are below the poverty line. As far as I know, they haven’t gotten a cent from any charity (unless you want to call a welfare check charity). I’m pretty sure most of those charities go to saving pandas in China over saving hungry children in America. But hey, I guess those kids took their chances when they decided not to miscarry in their mother’s womb.
John: Do we live in a society or don’t we? Are we a collective? Everybody’s success is predicated on the hard work of all of us. Nobody gets there on their own. Should it be that the people who lose are hung out to dry. For a group that doesn’t believe in evolution, it’s awfully Darwinian.
Stefan: The market is based on a win-win negotiation. This always happens. In evolution (which john Stewart doesn’t understand), the lion eats the gazelle and this is win-lose-and eat. If your business fails, you don’t get eaten by predators. People who succeed have lenders, investors, the people who heat their building, but we voluntarily trade to gain these services and support.
Me: Alright, let’s start from the beginning. There is no such thing as a win-win negotiation. Again, you just said that business ventures are inherently risky. The guy who has a warehouse full of widgets isn’t going to make any money if people don’t want to buy them. And when they can’t pay back the bank loans they took out to fund this venture, the person will go into bankruptcy and lose everything. Thank god we have the safety net of bankruptcy protection law, or people would be sold off like cattle to finance their failures. Also, some woman who I’m ashamed I can’t her name made a great point on this next issue. She said something to the tune of “To sell you goods, you drove trucks over public roads. To work in your factories and stores, you hired people educated by the public education system. All of that was paid for by your tax dollars.” Oh, and one more thing. A lion hunting a gazelle has nothing to do with evolution either. That was a predatory relationship between two species. The Gazelle that didn’t get eaten was the case of evolution.
Maybe I should start a separate thread when this is done.
If you consider the way things are now, there are few celebrities who are not advocating some kind of humanitarian thing. Every big business and corporation feel obliged to give back in some way, if only to give some illusion of caring or “playing ball”. Because Greenseas is dolphin free, consciencious people buy their tuna (for example). What role government has in this trend (at least a trend gaining traction in western cultures) I don’t know, but it seems to me that it is not all that bad, it is slow but seems the right direction.