law and punishment, idea spin

2 years, 2 months ago

hi there, i would like to discuss something difficult, and also a possible solution, but first, please know this is only an opinion, an opinion based on solid logic, but an opinion nonetheless, therefore if you feel the need to get angry, just understand, i might simply ignore your reply, ( opinion ), all this is,

i would like to start off with a statement that has become incredible apparent ever since i became a father and have been forced to deal with the misbehaviors of youth, “the punishment should fit the crime”,

now, here comes one of those opinion thingies, ( – this is not the main point, but a parallel to it,- ) — i agree with the death penalty–, if you take another’s life, the only right punishment is the same, ( – another opinion – ), –i agree with how they do it–, both in terms of humane execution (something the perpetrator never, ever gives) and the legal process up to it,

see, there are checks and balances, simply because you kill does not mean you get the needle, there are levels of severity, that makes sure that there is a high, high probability that if you executed, you deserve it, now, is it perfect? Pfffttt wtf is? get over it, it’s the best we have to work with,

(please do not argue the death penalty in the thread, this is not the point, this is to show a legal parallel for the following:)

lets talk about rapist and child molesters,

– Total number of registered sex offenders nationwide in the U.S….. ( 747,408 )
– Total number of sex offenders under supervision of a corrections agencies….. ( 265,000)
– Percent of sex offenders that will commit another sex crime after being released from jail….. (5.3 %)
– Percent of sex offenders that will commit a crime (non-sexual) after release from jail….. (87 %)
– Percent of sexually molested boys who are molested by someone they knew….. (60 %)
– Percent of sexually molested girls who are molested by someone they knew….. (80 %)
– Percent of second offenses that occur while living in a supervised community….. (60 %)
– Average re-conviction rate for a child molester….. (20 %)
– Average re-conviction rate for rapists….. (19%)
– Percent of children who are sexually abused that will become sexually abusive later in life….. (30%)
– Average annual cost to incarcerate a sex offender….. ($22,000)
– Percent of sexual assaults that occur between 6:00pm and 12:00am….. (43%)
– Average number of years a sex offender serves of an 8 year sentence….. (3.5 years)
– Average number of children molested by 1 predator before they’re caught….. (117 children)
( – Source: http://www.statisticbrain.com/sex-offender-statistics/ -)

747, 408 ( registered ) offenders, these are the ones we know about. Of these, there is a 20% average re-conviction rate for child molesters, 19% for rapist, and there is a 87%, when offenders are released from jail, they will commit another crime (non-sexual related)

lets talk about the victims here for a second before i make my point, this taking advantage of someone weaker is so wide sweeping that it touches most people’s lives in some way, some of you know someone, some of you know ( i wish written word could properly describe my empathy for you ),

why is the victim worth considering? when someone is sexually abused they get a walking death sentence, it is something they can come out of with proper support, but most often is the case, support is nowhere to be found,

this reality becomes a stigma, a curse ( don’t get caught up on this term, i imply nothing supernatural, just an elongated stigma that can effect generations after ), this individual wanders reality, hurt, in the worst emotional way possible, the cause / effect of what was done to them can often be seen in their behavior towards their own ( children ) and all other important relationships, who then model and repeat because they do not know any better, it becomes like an emotional cancer,

the molester gets 5 years, the victim gets a life sentence, the molester 20% of the time re-offends, or, 87% of the time, continues in criminal action, the victim gets a life sentence,
perhaps the punishment does not fit the crime? perhaps?

now, to draw the parallel, if we can take a humans life due to a cause / effect they started, does that not leave everything in between open, ( if ) it matches the crime?

here is what I suggest, similar to the various checks and balances of the death penalty, based on severity and fact, when a child molester is convicted, he can receive 5 years – castration,

yes, ( castration ). he has clearly shown, through action, that he cannot control himself, that he will take advantage of someone weaker,

THE PUNISHMENT WILL FIT THE CRIME,

i am very serious here, consider what this would do to people considering the action. think about the comfort in the victim knowing, KNOWING, they can never hurt them again, ever,

what do you think?

Remember the last statistics:

Average number of children molested by 1 predator before they’re caught….. (117 children)

December 4, 2012 at 10:59 am

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Profile photo of  Anonymous (@) 2 years, 2 months ago ago

@tine, but would you agree that (non-chemical) castration is unnecessary and even barbaric? Chemical castration gets the job you want done, and the (non-chemical) surgical procedure performed on males doesn’t really apply to females now, does it (ovaries, more invasive and results in many long-term health effects)?

I agree that we should wait to see if they can exhibit more willpower before more drastic measures are used, but are you so sure that many of them can control their urges?They should be kept from hurting even more people, but people often become so blinded by wanting revenge, which doesn’t solve the underlying problem or take back what was done to the victims.

Again, the assumption is also made that we have free will.

You said there was only one interpretation (here’s your quote: “no, there is only one”) to “the punishment should fit the crime.” Your interpretation is fine (and you have every right to hold that view), but a different interpretation held by another person would show that there is more than one possible interpreration to that quote.

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Profile photo of Tine Tine (@tine) 2 years, 2 months ago ago

@dalniente,

for sure, i don’t think we should regress to brutality, o i see, sry, i guess i meant that, its the only interpretation that’s directly correlated to the act in the first place.

and i think we have free will, but it is not inherent, it is something realized, and means, ‘my mind is free’,

we should give them a chance (even though they do not deserve it after their act) and if repeated, consideration for castration should be presented to the judge, but a third act = three strikes rule, its mandatory at this point,

i feel it would only take a few examples of this to help deter the general mindset towards doing it

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Profile photo of  Anonymous (@) 2 years, 2 months ago ago

@tine, this won’t turn into a long debate over free will, but…

• It depends on how it’s defined. For example, compatibilists define free will so that it’s “compatible” with determinism, even though in the end they don’t think they have control over their actions.

• Many people point to the uncertainty principle or “uncaused causes” as though they debunk determinism. Not quite.

• Even with the previous point, it’s hard to argue that the universe is completely chaotic. Also, if determinism is not true that does not necessarily mean free will exists. So how exactly do we cause those events, especially considering that they’re not just present in organisms?

While you have every right to hold your view on free will, my point is that we can’t prove it right now, and there is much more weight to the idea that we don’t have it.

Either way, I think it would be more effective to solve the underlying problems rather than painting people as evil monsters who had the ability to choose otherwise. I don’t approve of their actions, but I think a change in humanity’s supposedly “special position” (having free will and being able to transcend the laws of nature) in the universe could have quite an impact, especially on our justice system.

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Profile photo of Tine Tine (@tine) 2 years, 2 months ago ago

@dalniente,

i agree, it is a subjective term, but my mind is free, therefore there are unlimited paths ahead for me, this freedom effects how i can respond to reality and this is seen through my ability to supersede my circumstances and be whatever the situation needs, this being is incredible, it is flow, i understand that term now,

there’s a lotta thought behind my view on it, i just didnt want to make it a center point, my view on the term comes from personal revelations and my ability to understand reality

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Profile photo of Tine Tine (@tine) 2 years, 2 months ago ago

@dalniente,

they are only monsters if they receive the consequences and learn nothing and continue, the label is not subjective, knowingly continuing, the action, defines who they are,

i fully understand that, in most cases, the rapist / molester was a victim once themselves, they have my empathy for this, this is why i am not saying, castrate them all,

only those that show through action an inability to be human

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Profile photo of  Anonymous (@) 2 years, 2 months ago ago

@tine, in the end I think we could both agree that humane (temporary) measures should be taken to prevent them from harming more people, but the root cause should eventually be addressed.

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