Has anyone ever heard of this?
I remember watching ‘Reefer Madness’ when I was a teen and laughing my ass off at how ridiculous it was. Granted, I was high when I first watched it, but I’ve watched it plenty of times sober and it’s still just as ridiculous.
But I was presented with the connection of Marijuana and Schizophrenia by my Fiancee, and since I’m an average smoker (1/4-1/2 of mids-krip per month), she showed great concern for me considering my father showed signs of being schizophrenic prior to taking his life when I was younger.
Apparently, Marijuana use has been linked, according to some of the following articles, to early onset psychosis.
I was hoping to get some insights and perspectives from different groups, medical buffs, marijuana buffs, psychology/psychiatry buffs, and even the average joe who may frequent this site. If you don’t know enough about it, I’ve provided some links below
I have my opinions on the topic, but what do all you HEthens think?
@tigerturban, and now you know me. Marijuana can certainly exacerbate psychosis, even if symptoms are not present in sobriety.
Its an incredibly strong entheogen, but daily or habitual use tends to decrease those types of effects. However, most people eventually encounter the negative trip, and its not a pleasant thing to deal with.
@tigerturban, everyone is a fucking nut. Most people are just numb to it and consider themselves ‘normal’. Other people think they are above it, and are quick to throw around the term ‘enlightened,’ because they are too afraid to look at themselves. Every mind is capable psychosis. If you haven’t experienced the cunningness of the mind and how easily it can trick you into believing anything it wants, then I am not sure if you’ve really taken the time to look at yourself.
It has been proven that weed can aggravate latent psychological problems such as schizophrenia. The key notion being that the problems already exist within the user.
However, in users with healthy, balanced psychological systems, there is no evidence that marijuana leads to psychosis, schizophrenia, or any other psychological problems – except possibly acute anxiety/paranoia, which remit after the duration of the drug.
There are plenty of medical journals/studies which conclude the above – you may find them yourself.
@tigerturban, So be it man, I’ll be here to lend an ear when you hit that point.
It is unlikely someone can continually smoke weed without hitting a point where it becomes apparent what the drug is actually doing, and let me assure you, its a very strong substance.
@mikeyw829, ya i notice you like to chime in every once in awhile with your naive inexperienced platitudes, son. Ok, I’ll bite this time: so, If your saying I’m calling myself ‘enlightened’ the answer would be no..but i am an experienced meditator and feel I have gained some progress in the art. And I have also experienced real mental health problems in the past (which required me to be on serious medication: chloropromazine and zyprexa to be more exact) i did not use pot much during that year and a half of Bad Times but as soon as I was back on my feet it was back to the bong. Don’t be a little dink! :)
I think that marijuana don’t cause any mental disease but if you are mentally predisposed to any of them it can help the disease to develop. And that disease maybe never appeard if you never smoke.
When I was 17 I was smoking sometimes and because of that one day when being high I developed derealisation symptomes and it really suck I felt really bad for a long time.
Marijuana, just like just about anything, can cause chemical imbalance in the body. Because marijuana effects the brain, it can cause chemical imbalance in the brain itself and this could mean a number of symptoms such as depression and paranoia, as well as many others. The key is moderation, nay sayers are defensive about their baby but objectively anything can be abused and have negative effects.
@danfontaine, do you know what correlation means??
@tigerturban, I’m not decrying marijuana at all, you’re projecting that. I’m saying its a lot stronger than people realize, including, apparently, you.
It almost is as if your insinuating I can’t handle marijuana because I’m not capable. If the day comes that you have a full blown event on marijuana, you will understand, but until then, please don’t stigmatize someone who has intense effects from weed… its not becoming of you. :)
Schizophrenia – is a mental disorder that makes it hard to tell the difference between what is real and not real
A lot of people believe the voices inside their are not their own, its God, its the Devil, its a ghost, and this creates the mental foundation, level one. Now add to this a substance that changes how you perceive reality, this creates level two. Now imagine filtering reality through a mind like this.
So, perhaps marijuana doesn’t cause the schizophrenia, perhaps if the individuals is susceptible to the condition: “The voices are not them and the voices have become influential”, shifting into another alternative reality cannot be beneficial for their mental state.
Also, consider the individual susceptible to schizophrenia, is this disturbed individual more likely or less likely to partake in substance abuse?
So perhaps the weed is merely the tool that unhinges the mind completely in these cases. I guess, consider the question from the angle, sometimes things are correlated inaccurately. before you come to any final conclusion
I agree with this ten-fold. A while back when I first started to smoke marijuana I noticed that every time I got lifted I began to see the things I have seen during acid trips, mushroom trips, etc. I knew that marijuana is a slight hallucinagenic in itself, but not enough to make someone experience a trip each time, especially as tolerance increased. However, as time went on I realized that I see the same patterns and hallucinations on a smaller level even when I’m sober. I believe that the marijuana has acted as a catalyst to produce a never ending hallucination for me (which is frightening to some) but I have become used to it and have been able to control whatever it is without medication and I still go on smoking. I’m not say that marijuana has a direct link to what I’m experiencing but it sure does amplify it greatly to the point of delusion, extreme reality morphing hallucinations, and manic behavior. To my excitement however, and also after speaking with diagnosed patients, as well as researching medical studies, marijuana as well as any mind altering substance can alter the amount of the chemical responsible for monitoring DMT levels in the pineal gland as well as the rest of the brain. It is POSSIBLE for someone have an excess of DMT functioning throughout the brain due to THC, LSD, and psilocybin. It is curable with or without proper medication depending on the type of person you are. Everyone has the genetics for any disorder, just some are more prone to certain disorders than others. If you’re like me, you can live comfortably with this type of disorder and/or chemical imbalance, it just takes an extraordinary amount of self discipline. If being crazy scares you, stay in the reality that has been laid out for you, if not, create your own; you’ll be a lot happier.
@trek79, It is a well studied phenomenon that people who smoke weed are much more likely to develop schizophrenia… to claim that you know for a fact that weed doesn’t cause schizophrenia is disregarding all the research being done on the subject, and it may turn out that it does, in fact, stimulate or exacerbate schizophrenia.
There is a definite correlation, but nobody knows that causation.
A good term to remember is;
“Umbrellas are correlated with rain, but umbrellas do not cause rain.”
Again – they DO know there is a correlation between schizophrenia and people who smoke weed. They do NOT know which is the causation of the other. This is heavily debated in the research field with no conclusion in the near future to be seen. Please respect the people doing the research on this, and don’t claim to know for a fact either way.
@tine, @ijesuschrist, @tigerturban, @trek79,
Ehem… the links I provided?
Has any of you bothered to even glance at them?
I provided the ones that I thought were the most credible, and even included the only debunking article I could find.
I don’t need to research the topic, I already have, I just wanted opinions from real people who may know something about this, may have experienced this, or know someone who has experienced this or something like this.
Though I love the way this thread has evolved throughout the day, it’s provided me with some insight as well as alot of entertainment whilst cleaning my apt. :)
@tigerturban, Its not some kind of conspiracy dude, this is a legit phenomenon.
try and find a study that claims the opposite, I will as well;
“Previous studies suggest that long-term cannabis use causes cognitive impairment, including lack of motivation and impaired attention, conditions that also resemble core negative symptoms of schizophrenia. The anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) plays an important role in normal cognition, particularly in relation to motivation and attention. This could suggest that changes in the cannabinoid (CB) system might be present in the ACC of patients suffering schizophrenia. The present study examined the distribution and density of CB1 cannabinoid receptors in the left ACC taken postmortem from patients with schizophrenia (n=10) and matched control subjects (n=9). Radioligand binding of [3H]SR141716A, an antagonist that specifically targets CB1 receptors of the endogenous cannabinoid system, was examined on ACC sections using quantitative autoradiography. CB1 receptors had a homogenous distribution among the layers of ACC. A significant 64% increase in [3H]SR141716A specific binding to CB1 receptors was found in the schizophrenia group as compared to the control group (mean±S.E.M.: 46.15±6.22 versus 28.02±4.20 fmol/mg estimated tissue equivalents; p=0.03). The present results support the suggestion that changes in the endogenous cannabinoid system in the ACC may be involved in the pathology of schizophrenia particularly in relation to negative symptoms.”
This study is done later and finds the exact opposite (not willing to look into methodologies):
Abstract: Objective In recent years, abnormal changes in the endocannabinoid system have been found in schizophrenia. The superior temporal gyrus (STG) is strongly implicated in the pathophysiology of schizophrenia, particularly with regards to auditory hallucinations. In this study, we investigated the binding density of cannabinoid CB1 receptors in the STG of schizophrenia patients compared to control subjects. Methods Quantitative autoradiography was used to investigate the binding densities of [3H]SR141716A (a selective antagonist) and [3H]CP-55940 (an agonist) to the CB1 receptors in the STG. Post-mortem brain tissue was obtained from the NSW Tissue Resource Centre (Australia). Results Contrasting to previous findings in the alterations of CB1 receptor densities in the prefrontal, anterior and posterior cingulate cortex of schizophrenia, which were suggested to be associated to impairment of cognition function, no significant difference was found between the schizophrenia and control cases in both [3H]SR141716A and [3H]CP-55940 binding. Conclusion We suggest that CB1 receptors in the STG are not involved in the pathology of schizophrenia and the auditory hallucination symptom of this disease.
Cannabis abuse and particularly heavy abuse can be considered a stressor eliciting relapse in patients with schizophrenia and related disorders and possibly a premorbid precipitant.
Study done this year:
In a representative cohort of 145 male patients with schizophrenia, 68 (46.9%) used cannabis. Mean age at onset of schizophrenia in cannabis using patients was significantly lower than in non-cannabis using patients. No other cross-sectional demographic or clinical differences were observed between users and non-users. In a series of longitudinal analyses, cannabis use was not associated with differences in psychopathology, but relapse in terms of the number of hospitalizations was significantly higher in cannabis using patients compared to non-cannabis using patients.Patients with schizophrenia using cannabis are more frequently hospitalized than non-cannabis using patients but do not differ with respect to psychopathology. Possible explanations for these findings are discussed.
Cannabis users demonstrated better cognition at psychosis onset, which was explained by higher premorbid IQ. They also showed better social function and neither measure changed over the subsequent 15 months. Cannabis users had an earlier age at onset of psychosis, and there was a strong linear relationship between age at first cannabis use and age at onset of both prodromal and psychotic symptoms. Cannabis use spontaneously declined over time with 3-quarters of users giving up altogether. Later age at first cannabis use predicted earlier cessation of use and this in turn was linked to fewer positive psychotic symptoms and days in hospital during the first 2 years.
Conclusions are a bit extreme
Conclusions: Cannabis use brings forward the onset of psychosis in people who otherwise have good prognostic features indicating that an early age at onset can be due to a toxic action of cannabis rather than an intrinsically more severe illness. Many patients abstain over time, but in those who persist, psychosis is more difficult to treat.
You can’t prove a correlation wrong – its something that is just there. You can prove the reasoning wrong… But really – just accept there is a correlation with schizophrenia and marijuana. Its not really up to debate.