Marijuana linked to Schizophrenia
Has anyone ever heard of this?
I remember watching ‘Reefer Madness’ when I was a teen and laughing my ass off at how ridiculous it was. Granted, I was high when I first watched it, but I’ve watched it plenty of times sober and it’s still just as ridiculous.
But I was presented with the connection of Marijuana and Schizophrenia by my Fiancee, and since I’m an average smoker (1/4-1/2 of mids-krip per month), she showed great concern for me considering my father showed signs of being schizophrenic prior to taking his life when I was younger.
Apparently, Marijuana use has been linked, according to some of the following articles, to early onset psychosis.
I was hoping to get some insights and perspectives from different groups, medical buffs, marijuana buffs, psychology/psychiatry buffs, and even the average joe who may frequent this site. If you don’t know enough about it, I’ve provided some links below
I have my opinions on the topic, but what do all you HEthens think?
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no one knows which causes which -
if schizophrenics are more likely to smoke
smoking is likely to cause schizophrenia
there has been no way to confirm either way and both seem probable, and it probably is a little bit of both. To me smoking is quite intense on the brain, especially when you have one of those “bad highs” that seems uncomfortable – once you have one of those you should stop immediately, as its a slippery slope from there on out.
@tigerturban, Have you met the majority of the people on this planet?
I’m not surprised they would laugh at someone else for differences. You seem so enlightened.
You’re defending marijuana likes its your child or something.
Maybe we all are a bit schizophrenic, consciously we just aren’t aware of it because we are to busy focusing on receiving hundreds of thousands of other signals and thoughts from life. But once you let you mind settle and start to think about whether or not you should do something is when schizophrenic features pop up.
I view life from a perspective of evolutionary adaptation. It makes completed sense to have the ability to converse with yourself on whether or not that is good decision. But with all adaptions, some hit the “psycho” spectrum and become a negative mutation causing these people to be clinically insane. Nothing is wrong with these people, just societies selection thinks other wise. (Also they can be dangerous.)
Think about it, when you dream who are you talking to in those dreams?
@tine, @ijesuschrist, @tigerturban, @trek79,
Ehem… the links I provided?
Has any of you bothered to even glance at them?
I provided the ones that I thought were the most credible, and even included the only debunking article I could find.
I don’t need to research the topic, I already have, I just wanted opinions from real people who may know something about this, may have experienced this, or know someone who has experienced this or something like this.
Though I love the way this thread has evolved throughout the day, it’s provided me with some insight as well as alot of entertainment whilst cleaning my apt. :)
i already told you, you’re argument is one-sided…you’ve already tried to dismiss my point that cannibus is prescribed (SUCCESSFULLY) for a wide variety of psychological and physical ailments. That makes you a goof. (for lack of a better word)
And how can you detect those latent psychosis in someone to determine is they should or should not take drugs anyway? My best friends brother used to smoke a lot of pot with us back in the day. His schizophrenia slowly creeped up on him. Now he’s locked up in the hospital and not going anywhere because he’s too dangerous. What if that could have been avoided?
I wouldn’t consider myself “brave” per se, but merely inquisitive. I was presented with my Fiancee’s fear of the correlation a little over a year ago because of it being brought up in one of her classes. And while there is little evidence showing that my ‘bio’ was schizophrenic, there is some suspicion that he was paranoid type, which they thought might have lead him to his eventual suicide. Basically, there is little evidence that I am genetically dispositioned to the disorder, and the research only shows a correlation but not a definitive link.
And while I agree with what you and the research claims about the correlation between drug use and early onset of mental and personality disorders, it pains me to say these are often misdiagnosed or mistakenly interchanged. Seeing that Schizoid, Schizotypal, and Schizoaffective, are all personality-type disorders, whereas Schizophrenia and Bipolar are psychotic disorder, I can see how the similarities might lead to a misdiagnosis.
Could you provide me with a link to the videos? I would like to use them, along with the other case studies I’ve found, to better educate myself on the different circumstances involved in different cases. Thanks :)
@alexxxwakeup, i agree, its all in the mind. its the same when you think about all the anti depressant drugs and that shit out there. you can go to any hospital in the world and see people loaded with prescription drugs that are numb to the world around them or find someone that seems schizo or crazy or whatever, its all about perspective to me. my dad tried to tell me im going crazy because i believe in things outside of Christianity and things outside hardcore republican views so take everything with a grain of salt. this is coming from a frequent smoker and someone who has seen the good and bad it can do. your state of mind contributes to how you react no matter the substance or lack there of.
Marijuana, just like just about anything, can cause chemical imbalance in the body. Because marijuana effects the brain, it can cause chemical imbalance in the brain itself and this could mean a number of symptoms such as depression and paranoia, as well as many others. The key is moderation, nay sayers are defensive about their baby but objectively anything can be abused and have negative effects.
Nope, I assumed you wanted various perspectives and logic possibilities, so instead of arguing the science, I argued the logic of the correlation, not because I assumed you hadn’t done your research, but because the logic itself seemed shaky
I may not be 100% accurate with this since it’s been awhile since I’ve read about it, but I think I remember reading that schizophrenics have a higher level of dopamine than people without the disease. When the THC enters their brain, it raises the levels of the dopamine and alters their thinking more than a normal person’s.
As for the link between it, there is evidence that shows that it can catalyze the psychosis of schizophrenia, or just make the symptoms impairing.
@tigerturban, Its not some kind of conspiracy dude, this is a legit phenomenon.
try and find a study that claims the opposite, I will as well;
“Previous studies suggest that long-term cannabis use causes cognitive impairment, including lack of motivation and impaired attention, conditions that also resemble core negative symptoms of schizophrenia. The anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) plays an important role in normal cognition, particularly in relation to motivation and attention. This could suggest that changes in the cannabinoid (CB) system might be present in the ACC of patients suffering schizophrenia. The present study examined the distribution and density of CB1 cannabinoid receptors in the left ACC taken postmortem from patients with schizophrenia (n=10) and matched control subjects (n=9). Radioligand binding of [3H]SR141716A, an antagonist that specifically targets CB1 receptors of the endogenous cannabinoid system, was examined on ACC sections using quantitative autoradiography. CB1 receptors had a homogenous distribution among the layers of ACC. A significant 64% increase in [3H]SR141716A specific binding to CB1 receptors was found in the schizophrenia group as compared to the control group (mean±S.E.M.: 46.15±6.22 versus 28.02±4.20 fmol/mg estimated tissue equivalents; p=0.03). The present results support the suggestion that changes in the endogenous cannabinoid system in the ACC may be involved in the pathology of schizophrenia particularly in relation to negative symptoms.”
This study is done later and finds the exact opposite (not willing to look into methodologies):
Abstract: Objective In recent years, abnormal changes in the endocannabinoid system have been found in schizophrenia. The superior temporal gyrus (STG) is strongly implicated in the pathophysiology of schizophrenia, particularly with regards to auditory hallucinations. In this study, we investigated the binding density of cannabinoid CB1 receptors in the STG of schizophrenia patients compared to control subjects. Methods Quantitative autoradiography was used to investigate the binding densities of [3H]SR141716A (a selective antagonist) and [3H]CP-55940 (an agonist) to the CB1 receptors in the STG. Post-mortem brain tissue was obtained from the NSW Tissue Resource Centre (Australia). Results Contrasting to previous findings in the alterations of CB1 receptor densities in the prefrontal, anterior and posterior cingulate cortex of schizophrenia, which were suggested to be associated to impairment of cognition function, no significant difference was found between the schizophrenia and control cases in both [3H]SR141716A and [3H]CP-55940 binding. Conclusion We suggest that CB1 receptors in the STG are not involved in the pathology of schizophrenia and the auditory hallucination symptom of this disease.
Cannabis abuse and particularly heavy abuse can be considered a stressor eliciting relapse in patients with schizophrenia and related disorders and possibly a premorbid precipitant.
Study done this year:
In a representative cohort of 145 male patients with schizophrenia, 68 (46.9%) used cannabis. Mean age at onset of schizophrenia in cannabis using patients was significantly lower than in non-cannabis using patients. No other cross-sectional demographic or clinical differences were observed between users and non-users. In a series of longitudinal analyses, cannabis use was not associated with differences in psychopathology, but relapse in terms of the number of hospitalizations was significantly higher in cannabis using patients compared to non-cannabis using patients.Patients with schizophrenia using cannabis are more frequently hospitalized than non-cannabis using patients but do not differ with respect to psychopathology. Possible explanations for these findings are discussed.
Cannabis users demonstrated better cognition at psychosis onset, which was explained by higher premorbid IQ. They also showed better social function and neither measure changed over the subsequent 15 months. Cannabis users had an earlier age at onset of psychosis, and there was a strong linear relationship between age at first cannabis use and age at onset of both prodromal and psychotic symptoms. Cannabis use spontaneously declined over time with 3-quarters of users giving up altogether. Later age at first cannabis use predicted earlier cessation of use and this in turn was linked to fewer positive psychotic symptoms and days in hospital during the first 2 years.
Conclusions are a bit extreme
Conclusions: Cannabis use brings forward the onset of psychosis in people who otherwise have good prognostic features indicating that an early age at onset can be due to a toxic action of cannabis rather than an intrinsically more severe illness. Many patients abstain over time, but in those who persist, psychosis is more difficult to treat.
You can’t prove a correlation wrong – its something that is just there. You can prove the reasoning wrong… But really – just accept there is a correlation with schizophrenia and marijuana. Its not really up to debate.
@tine, I don’t know. I know there is a correlation, and as people who tend to have psychotic breaks tend to explain it on the internet – I’ve ready plenty of them over the past 5 years. Nearly all of them stemmed only from smoking weed.
I think marijuana has the ability to cause schizophrenia in people who would otherwise not develop it. That being said, I don’t think its the sole source. Nor is it always necessary (obviously) to cause it.
@tigerturban, I will be the bigger man and stop talking to you. But it is spelled cannibis*
I would be more convinced with actual research articles from journals than just popular press publications. The popular press has a tendency to over-exaggerate trends.
My assumption is that if a correlation between Marijuana and Schizophrenia existed it wouldn’t be at the users conscious control. Schizophrenia is probably a poly-genetic threshold disorder. So it’s genes of the individual and the environmental factors that can lead to expression.
If a chemical in Marijuana was a mutagen that effected certain genes that controlled expression of Schizophrenia, and since Marijuana has a large amount of mutagens, then I would believe it.
Edit: Believe it could be possible that is.
@blankey, that sucks about you flushing your weed, I know I’d feel like a complete jackass after sobering up if I did that, but I’ve often been paranoid as shit when smoking the good stuff. That doesn’t necessarily mean its the same as schizophrenia, because, for me, the symptoms don’t last beyond the duration of the drug itself.
I never said that I personally was having psychosis or anything of the like, nor do I have any trouble dealing with weed-paranoia, but I thank you for the advice, as I’m sure it might help someone else who may come across this thread. Yes, I agree that mids are crap, but they also might just be a weak strain that doesn’t carry as much potency as something like say a true sativa(which really prefer).
A lot of people get paranoid when smoking weed, this is true, but some people are affected by it to a higher(no pun intended) degree than others.
The links I posted aren’t just some opinionated bloggers ramblings about his brothers mothers cousins uncles psychotic episode after smoking weed, but are in fact credible(mostly) medical, psychological, and literary sources, such as the APA website (American Psychological Association), Psychiatric Times, Time Magazine, WebMD, and I even present the ONLY debunking I could find of this theoretical connection, at the very end.
I don’t believe everything I read, I trust my instincts and my cognitive reasoning before I trust what you or anyone else in this world has to say, but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to explore unfamiliar ideas.
“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” -Hindu Prince Gautama Siddharta a.k.a. Buddha
@danfontaine, do you know what correlation means??
@tigerturban, I’m not decrying marijuana at all, you’re projecting that. I’m saying its a lot stronger than people realize, including, apparently, you.
It almost is as if your insinuating I can’t handle marijuana because I’m not capable. If the day comes that you have a full blown event on marijuana, you will understand, but until then, please don’t stigmatize someone who has intense effects from weed… its not becoming of you. :)
IF it were true someone would have to tell me why schizophrenia rates don’t vary from countries with less cannabis use to those with more, or why it has fallen in the UK despite more cannabis use or why the main source of evidence for this is linked to a questionable Swedish study.
But mainly empiricism trumps all as always, if Schizophrenia were linked to Cannabis use the explosion of cannabis use would mean an increase in Schizophrenia, there is no correlation.
@aidenblair, marijuana just gives you an unbiased view of things, it is part of the experience. However, just remember, if you think it is bothering you, or causing problems, its not that big of a deal to stop for a while and see how things play out. Play it by ear and do what you think is right for you, it’s just like any other “drug” (i put in in quotations because i do not consider it to be a drug.) it effects everyone differently.
“Nearly all of them stemmed only from smoking weed.”
Was it the weed that led to the break, or was it the circumstances of their reality, combined with the demotivating/slowing effects of weed, that led to it?
I say this because of a generalization I have observed, I find the frequent use of weed is correlated to emotional damage, as the individual has a conscious/subconscious need to leave the reality they are in for a better one.
So, in what you read, did they describe the circumstances surrounding their reality?
It has been proven that weed can aggravate latent psychological problems such as schizophrenia. The key notion being that the problems already exist within the user.
However, in users with healthy, balanced psychological systems, there is no evidence that marijuana leads to psychosis, schizophrenia, or any other psychological problems – except possibly acute anxiety/paranoia, which remit after the duration of the drug.
There are plenty of medical journals/studies which conclude the above – you may find them yourself.