Has anyone ever heard of this?
I remember watching ‘Reefer Madness’ when I was a teen and laughing my ass off at how ridiculous it was. Granted, I was high when I first watched it, but I’ve watched it plenty of times sober and it’s still just as ridiculous.
But I was presented with the connection of Marijuana and Schizophrenia by my Fiancee, and since I’m an average smoker (1/4-1/2 of mids-krip per month), she showed great concern for me considering my father showed signs of being schizophrenic prior to taking his life when I was younger.
Apparently, Marijuana use has been linked, according to some of the following articles, to early onset psychosis.
I was hoping to get some insights and perspectives from different groups, medical buffs, marijuana buffs, psychology/psychiatry buffs, and even the average joe who may frequent this site. If you don’t know enough about it, I’ve provided some links below
I have my opinions on the topic, but what do all you HEthens think?
“Previous studies suggest that long-term cannabis use causes cognitive impairment, including lack of motivation and impaired attention, conditions that also resemble core negative symptoms of schizophrenia. The anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) plays an important role in normal cognition, particularly in relation to motivation and attention. This could suggest that changes in the cannabinoid (CB) system might be present in the ACC of patients suffering schizophrenia. The present study examined the distribution and density of CB1 cannabinoid receptors in the left ACC taken postmortem from patients with schizophrenia (n=10) and matched control subjects (n=9). Radioligand binding of [3H]SR141716A, an antagonist that specifically targets CB1 receptors of the endogenous cannabinoid system, was examined on ACC sections using quantitative autoradiography. CB1 receptors had a homogenous distribution among the layers of ACC. A significant 64% increase in [3H]SR141716A specific binding to CB1 receptors was found in the schizophrenia group as compared to the control group (mean±S.E.M.: 46.15±6.22 versus 28.02±4.20 fmol/mg estimated tissue equivalents; p=0.03). The present results support the suggestion that changes in the endogenous cannabinoid system in the ACC may be involved in the pathology of schizophrenia particularly in relation to negative symptoms.”
This study is done later and finds the exact opposite (not willing to look into methodologies):
Abstract: Objective In recent years, abnormal changes in the endocannabinoid system have been found in schizophrenia. The superior temporal gyrus (STG) is strongly implicated in the pathophysiology of schizophrenia, particularly with regards to auditory hallucinations. In this study, we investigated the binding density of cannabinoid CB1 receptors in the STG of schizophrenia patients compared to control subjects. Methods Quantitative autoradiography was used to investigate the binding densities of [3H]SR141716A (a selective antagonist) and [3H]CP-55940 (an agonist) to the CB1 receptors in the STG. Post-mortem brain tissue was obtained from the NSW Tissue Resource Centre (Australia). Results Contrasting to previous findings in the alterations of CB1 receptor densities in the prefrontal, anterior and posterior cingulate cortex of schizophrenia, which were suggested to be associated to impairment of cognition function, no significant difference was found between the schizophrenia and control cases in both [3H]SR141716A and [3H]CP-55940 binding. Conclusion We suggest that CB1 receptors in the STG are not involved in the pathology of schizophrenia and the auditory hallucination symptom of this disease.
Cannabis abuse and particularly heavy abuse can be considered a stressor eliciting relapse in patients with schizophrenia and related disorders and possibly a premorbid precipitant.
Study done this year:
In a representative cohort of 145 male patients with schizophrenia, 68 (46.9%) used cannabis. Mean age at onset of schizophrenia in cannabis using patients was significantly lower than in non-cannabis using patients. No other cross-sectional demographic or clinical differences were observed between users and non-users. In a series of longitudinal analyses, cannabis use was not associated with differences in psychopathology, but relapse in terms of the number of hospitalizations was significantly higher in cannabis using patients compared to non-cannabis using patients.Patients with schizophrenia using cannabis are more frequently hospitalized than non-cannabis using patients but do not differ with respect to psychopathology. Possible explanations for these findings are discussed.
Cannabis users demonstrated better cognition at psychosis onset, which was explained by higher premorbid IQ. They also showed better social function and neither measure changed over the subsequent 15 months. Cannabis users had an earlier age at onset of psychosis, and there was a strong linear relationship between age at first cannabis use and age at onset of both prodromal and psychotic symptoms. Cannabis use spontaneously declined over time with 3-quarters of users giving up altogether. Later age at first cannabis use predicted earlier cessation of use and this in turn was linked to fewer positive psychotic symptoms and days in hospital during the first 2 years.
Conclusions are a bit extreme
Conclusions: Cannabis use brings forward the onset of psychosis in people who otherwise have good prognostic features indicating that an early age at onset can be due to a toxic action of cannabis rather than an intrinsically more severe illness. Many patients abstain over time, but in those who persist, psychosis is more difficult to treat.”
yeah i can see if you smoke 50 joints a day that’s not a good thing but c’mon! a guy’ll go nuts if he drink a 40 oz of vodka everday too! MODERATION is they key
“.Patients with schizophrenia using cannabis are more frequently hospitalized than non-cannabis using patients but do ” ***NEWSFLASH***
@tigerturban, lol… yeah. propaganda. you’re not… paranoid are you?
Listen, I’m being honest. I’m giving you what is known. The correlation between schizophrenia and marijuana is well established. Its not a fucking myth, its not a conspiracy, its not propaganda. If you believe it so, then you’re limiting yourself and putting this plant on a high pedestal.
“yeah i can see if you smoke 50 joints a day that’s not a good thing but c’mon! ”
So you admit there may be a correlation lulz.
You can hide away from the fact all you want – I don’t know why you WOULD, but its your choice.
@irea, I’mm very inclined to agree that it is purely a subjective thing – but most people who are happily toking along, and smoking makes them comfortable can lose that feeling entirely – suddenly, it seems and the experience becomes very uncomfortable.
I highly doubt that people, generally quite happy and relaxed while smoking would suddenly decide to go into the experience saying “This is the one! This is the one where I go nuts!”
@ijesuschrist, I also said if you drink a 40 oz of vodka you’ll probably go crazy as well as quoted the study…:
““.Patients with schizophrenia using cannabis are more frequently hospitalized than non-cannabis using patients do ” ***NEWSFLASH*** haha!
Let’s not forget that doctor’s prescribe “The Green Queen” for anxiety and stress-related disorders every damn day (not to mention a variety of physical ailments such as arthritis, chemo patients etc., I’m just trying to describe the picture more completely here, young’un.
@ijesuschrist, “but most people who are happily toking along, and smoking makes them comfortable can lose that feeling entirely – suddenly, it seems and the experience becomes very uncomfortable.” a ‘negative buzz’ is hardly a descent into madness; this is a phenomenon that diminishes over time as a person matures and learns too deal more effectively with everyday stressors :P
And I smoked a lot for years. Only at the end I couldn’t bear it any more and quit entirely. The 4-5 times I let myself smoke a little bit after that was pretty unpleasant so I just don’t. I have no trouble believing that for someone prone to mental illness, psychedelics may very be triggers. However pleasant being high all the time was for a while. It’s a lot more work to be high spirited and manage stress with natural techniques like physical exercise, healthy food, mediation and breathing but so much more rewarding in the long run.
And how can you detect those latent psychosis in someone to determine is they should or should not take drugs anyway? My best friends brother used to smoke a lot of pot with us back in the day. His schizophrenia slowly creeped up on him. Now he’s locked up in the hospital and not going anywhere because he’s too dangerous. What if that could have been avoided?
I would be more convinced with actual research articles from journals than just popular press publications. The popular press has a tendency to over-exaggerate trends.
My assumption is that if a correlation between Marijuana and Schizophrenia existed it wouldn’t be at the users conscious control. Schizophrenia is probably a poly-genetic threshold disorder. So it’s genes of the individual and the environmental factors that can lead to expression.
If a chemical in Marijuana was a mutagen that effected certain genes that controlled expression of Schizophrenia, and since Marijuana has a large amount of mutagens, then I would believe it.
Edit: Believe it could be possible that is.
@tigerturban, “doctor’s prescribe the green queen…” Yes, they also prescribe anti-depressants, carcinogens, things linked to birth defects, what is your point here?
Dude why are you taking this tone that somehow I’m a pussy and just can’t “handle” my weed? The fuck is wrong with you? I smoke marijuana, I’ve done mushrooms, I’ve done ayahuasca, I’ve done DMT, I’ve done salvia, I’ve done LSD, and marijuana still ranks as one of the strongest experiences I can have. If you don’t believe me, so be it, but don’t try to diminish me as a person for it, the fuck dude, seriously.
To me, it seems you need the maturing, here, not I.
@fijj, I posted plenty of actuual research journals in this thread, take a look.
I believe it can cause a schizophrenic break in people already susceptible to it, but I dont think it can cause the problem out of the blue. Dont take that with too much worth though, I’m just some random guy on the internet.
It’s not like your mindset will prevent you from getting Schizophrenia. If your predisposed to getting Schizophrenia, but if your genomic heredity haven’t given you the disorder it at birth, then the research that @ijesuschrist would suggest that Marijuana could cause the Schizophrenia “threshold” to be passed. Bradley Cooper may be “super attractive” and not want to lose his hair cause he thinks hes famous and cool, but male pattern baldness will still effects him. So is the terrible realization of life, in realizing that you have little control over it.
Btw, science is contradictory. So when you say “PROPAGHANDA” I don’t think their trying to say weed is bad, their just trying to find out whats really true. And sometimes their studies can produce difference results.
I’ve had good friends of mine have severe psychotic breaks from reality, all of whom do a fair amount of drugs and smoke weed everyday. I have no doubt that they’re linked, it makes sense to me. Whether or not you’re predisposed is a big factor I believe, and your own mental stability…as well as to what extent you use the drugs.
Nope, I assumed you wanted various perspectives and logic possibilities, so instead of arguing the science, I argued the logic of the correlation, not because I assumed you hadn’t done your research, but because the logic itself seemed shaky
IF it were true someone would have to tell me why schizophrenia rates don’t vary from countries with less cannabis use to those with more, or why it has fallen in the UK despite more cannabis use or why the main source of evidence for this is linked to a questionable Swedish study.
But mainly empiricism trumps all as always, if Schizophrenia were linked to Cannabis use the explosion of cannabis use would mean an increase in Schizophrenia, there is no correlation.
@ijesuschrist, @aidenblair, Yes, I have experienced this, I have had marijuana schitzophrenia and I have been in treatment with people who have regular schitzophrenia unrelated to marijuana use, there is a huge difference yet remarkable similarities. The people claiming schitzophrenia and marijuana shcitzophrenia may be looking at brain scans but they are weak on actually talking to sufferers. They would not place the two illnesses as the same thing otherwise.