I was just reading someones post about psychosis and it made me think…..
Who is to say mental disorders exist? Just because some people think differently than most? Who is to say that is wrong( In cases not involving drugs)? Usually the “cure” is sedatives. Does anyone here know what I mean?
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@spaceghost, dude I understand where you’re coming from. But when you meet a real paranoid schizophrenic, or someone with heavy psychosis, this statement you just made is going to be foolish. There are some fucked up things that can happen to the mind.
Yea its different thought processes, but they are seriously debilitating. Its not just some feelings of discomfort, or new perspectives – in a deep case, your entire world is turned inside out. A real schizophrenic cannot control the self, has constant black outs, uncontrollable violence, the inability to rationalize, and the inability to empathize (or to empathize to painful levels).
Its not like schizophrenics just see the world differently – their world is really different.
They probably aren’t prophets, they probably aren’t talking to god, they create incredibly detailed delusions, mimicking dreams in real-time reality.
Trust me man. I’ve been pretty fucked up, but I know there is a huge difference from how shitty I was, to how a truly psychotic person experiences things. I was lucky enough to see the delusions happening. When you don’t see it occurring… bleh.
@spaceghost, I see where you’re coming from, but the brain is part of the body so it has to be susceptible to disorders, like all other parts. Like if someone has a heart disorder you don’t just say that is how their heart works. Though I do believe there is a massive overuse of sedatives in the psychiatric world, but it is partly to do with people. Many people seem to think doctors are infallible or that they know everything and are just happy as long as they take some sort of action. Psychological disorders are very hard to treat because we know very little about the brain.
But I just wanted to clarify something: schizophrenics usually aren’t violent, but when they are it’s usually because they feel threatened. However, my mother sometimes had violent episodes. When she was lucid she was a kindhearted, lovely woman, but at times she even became violent to her own children.
@dalniente, My mom worked at a … half-way house? I forget the name… a lot of mentally ill people came in, schizophrenic, usually, and were often very violent.
Of course these are the schizophrenics who aren’t functional most of the time in society. I understand they aren’t always violent, but from my experiences with my friend who is diagnosed and all the stories from my mom it was the jist I got.
@ijesuschrist, it’s understandable that you think that because of the background you have, but there are other factors to consider.
(What is their socioeconomic background like? Do they have a support system? Are they abusing certain substances? Are their medications helping? Are they taking them properly? Are they even taking medications? Etc.)
Hi, one of my close friends is suffering from Paranoid Schizophrenia, OCD, Depression and Anxiety. He can’t tell what is real and what isn’t. He ended up going to prostitutes in his condition and is now very very paranoid that they are having his baby, despite me having explained all the logic and reasoning to him, he just doesn’t take it in…
I have told him so many times that, that is their job and that is what they do, whether they want to or not is a different story but the fact of the matter is that they do that day in and day out and so they have to be on some kind of precaution i.e birth control pills etc. He doesn’t believe me. He keeps on saying ‘oh but you don’t know what they are thinking, or what their intentions are/what if they forgot to take their pill, what if this, what if that?’
I even offered to go to speak to them for him so that is what I did, I called up the first one that he went to and she said that there is no baby so there is nothing to worry about. I managed to track down 2 of the others that he went to and they both have ensured me that they are not pregnant etc but even then he does not believe it. His mind keeps altering what happened when he went there so it changes his view of reality. So to answer the original post, there sure is a norm when it comes to medically being mentally fit and stable…
Can anybody help me with my friend? What shull I do and or say? I have even hired a private investigator to find things out but it seems as though my friend will keep coming up with doubts. I mean, ‘what ifs’ can carry on forever’. Where shull/do I draw the line?
Many thanks in advanced…
@tsingh, You’re not going to be able to prove his concerns right or wrong, in fact that will get you in a rut, and just make him play in his schizophrenia for a longer period of time.
All people are different, and I’m not saying this is going to work, but it would have with me, in my worst states;
You need to explain to him that he has control of reality. His vision of reality is under his control, and not something else. The problem with this schizophrenic thought is not the actual ideas, but the reinforcing of them, and the ability to keep them coming.
What happens is first a fear gets put into place. The fear usually comes from something odd, but builds up quickly, but is usually attributed to something completely wrong. For example he may be nervous to ask his parents for money or he may be concerned that his parents are not supportive of him, a quick flash of the thought might jump into his mind, and he’ll feel uncomfortable. But then what happens, is where the ‘norm’ and the ‘ill’ differ – he will be unable to relate his discomfort to the idea of his parents being disappointed in him. What instead will happen is he will TRY to IDENTIFY something to worry about.
I.E. “I feel bad that I had sex with those hookers” “I wonder if they got pregnant” “I bet they did get pregnant” “What if they are trying to get pregnant?” “I bet they are trying to get pregnant.” “They’re gonna fuck me over if they do that!”
Most people would stop at “I feel bad that I had sex with those hookers” and end up with anxiety or even a panic attack (for the inability to identify the true cause of the anxiety). But in the case of psychosis and paranoid schizophrenia, the worst case scenario is often portrayed. What is worse, is often the fear becomes hard to deny – something like early pregnancy.
Essentially fear is born in the brain, and settles somewhere that is completely irrelevant to where it first came from. As the fear creeps from idea to idea, it eventually settles on one that cannot be disproven easily, and there it will stay.
A huge problem with this is logic doesn’t get rid of the fear because
1) The original problem is not solved, and the unsettling feeling will persist, and new fears will pop in and out of reality
2) Fear and logic are two very different parts of the brain. To remove the feeling of fear is not very easy using just logic (Especially if you’re not getting to the root!)
I hope that makes sense. This is basically the cause of all anxiety and paranoia-based illnesses. Who knows why our brains have such problems with it…
@tsingh, You cannot successfully take on the magnitude of your friend’s issues by yourself. Your friend needs to be in continual contact with a mental health professional.
It’s awesome that you’re going to such great lengths to be a supportive friend.
Working in a mental health facility, I can tell you that these disorders are very very real. It’s unfortunate that those who get admitted into psych hospitals are drugged up pretty heavily (depending on the place), but one has to remember that at least the facility I work at is acute care, so sometimes these kids just need a couple days of “easier living” to start working on their illness. It’s hard for me to understand most of the time even working there, but I can say that these illnesses are very real.
@equanimity, I’m praying to ‘God’ that he fixes this guy up so that he will know what he has and or hasn’t done. I have spoken to the doctors and they have said that once he is back to normal, he will be able to know what he did and or didn’t do.
He has severe delusions as well. When he gets a bad thought, he thinks that it has actually happened. Last time he was obsessed that he has impregnanted a prostitute so he went around finding out all the brothels in his area and went to check on the women there. It’s crazy but it’s so sad for him, he is at his mind’s mercy…
Do you think hiring a Private Investigator is too extreme?
Mental disorders are bullshit.
Everyone has a unique mind, they’re all different. And according to the DSM (which is the standard and holds the definitions for the “disorders”) EVERYONE HAS A HOST OF MENTAL “DISORDERS.”
There’s many reasons for this.
One reason is money. You can make lots of money off counseling, therapy and DRUGS if people believe there’s something wrong with their minds and that you can fix it.
Another reason is compliance. By labelling people who refuse to obey, you discourage people from going against the grain, and you get people to shun those who do, etc.
Nobody has mental disorders. A mind is a mind, it can be anything. None of it is right and none of it is wrong.
As of right now, there are a lot of people who have the general idea of what a mental disorder is, but can’t specifically pinpoint a criteria. The DSM-IV (which is going to be updated very soon) as of right now is the most used method to diagnose mental disorders. But personally I’d define mental disorders according to the personal discomfort the afflicted feel. I currently do have clinical depression, and I can definitely say that a depressive episode is completely different from regular sadness. When I’m in a depressive episode, I barely have any control over myself. Sometimes I can even feel, and know, that depression is kicking in, and I had times when I curled up in my bed and told myself to make it go away, that I’ve been having such a fine time for a while and I don’t want it to end. But it comes anyway, no matter where I am or how I am feeling. Also, there’s no reasoning with depression. With sadness you can usually have a general idea of why you’re sad, and you can try to improve that aspect of your life. Not with depression. With depression I don’t know why I’m sad, I just am. As a result I can’t even begin to try to make myself happier. It leaves me in the dark with no direction on where to go, and everything, literally everything only serves to make my existence more miserable.
@tsingh, … Them being pregnant isn’t the point. And honestly who gives a shit. Its not going to be the end of his life if their pregnant. WHO GIVES A SHIT IF THEY’RE PREGGERS. Its his kid, yeah, then he’ll have a kid. Life change. Not end of the world. Just a new thing to adapt to.
Your responses allowed me to realize my real question. I agree disorders exist and that reality is different for these “sufferers.” Reality is different for everyone, right? So why do we need to fix people that are outside the norm? We are who we are, even if that means some kind of level is off balance. What is this measurement of sanity?
Yes there are a lot of cases where a person who has a radical but logical thought process is declared as mentally ill, this is so they can be dismissed or because people that agree with them fear being lumped into the same category of disorder.
I like a lot of what Manimal says, everyone has a range of disorders, I have heard that truely sane people are as rare as 1 in 10,000. The thing is, it is a huge industry, in both pharmasuticals and the fields of psychology, but there are real disorders that can make people a danger to themselves or others.
The thing is; addiction is a disorder and pretty much everyone has some level of addiction. I don’t mean specifically substance abuse, but there are a range of psychological dependancies and neurosis, insecurities, attachments to other people, to habits and routine. An example is television addiction, it is not a substance but a persons objective choice to stop watching can be seriously effected. Loving someone can become an obsession etc.
I do agree with certain disorders. Like, there should be a larger range of ‘normal’, However, when it comes to Psychosis etc. then I think that becomes a category of mental illness. People are way too quick to label people who are outside of their idea of ‘normal’ as being ill.
For example, I have heard people labelling people that are full of themselves as having narcissistic personality disorder. Or those who are unable to make friends, and are anti-social as having antisocial personality disorder. Those who are up and down as fitting ‘bipolar’. etc. Sometimes I think us humans tend to try to simplify things too much!
If mental disorders didn’t exist, we wouldn’t have to lock up dementia patients or delusional individuals for their own safety. If the word ‘disorder’ makes you so defensive, call them special. They’re still basket cases that can’t tell the difference between feces and food.
Well alright now, I think everyone here has made very good points. But I myself, am a paranoid schizophrenic and have been through psychosis. I can tell you that, I personally, do not believe myself to be insane. And at the moment, neither would my psychiatrist.
When in psychosis I was under the impression that I could take signs from the universe as being that from god. Simple things like a license plate number or song lyrics on the radio. Even now I still believe that I can in some way, as do many people. At the time of psychosis I started to believe very strange things almost immediately after conceiving them because there was perhaps some kind of sign or indirect reason for me to believe. Or perhaps I heard a voice in my head telling me it was true. This could even be something someone said to me that might have a double meaning.
I still have beliefs like this, but they are toned down. I don’t take to radically different beliefs or wild imaginations without having a more definitive reason for it. But I do believe that people are telepathic, and that many of them don’t talk about it. I also believe that everything is connected and those moments when your listening to music and the singer is singing about the exact same thing you were just thinking is no coincidence, it happened that way for a reason.
You can say that I’m cray cray or deluded or whatever. But I believe in the soundness of my own mind. My experiences are what guide me, and just because you don’t have the same ones that I do doesn’t really make me insane. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don’t believe the things I do without a cause or some form of logic. It is reason that has brought me to where I am today. I can’t speak for the rest of schizophrenics, but I believe in myself, and would be thankful if you believed in me too.
“But I believe in the soundness of my own mind”
If this is so, why do you define yourself via other’s opinions? Unless you truly believe you’re somehow different to everyone else.
If this adds fuels to your fire, please disregard it as the ravings of a pathological button pusher.