Official ‘Zeitgeist: Moving Forward’ Discussion
Always good to hear a counter-argument when forming an opinion.
What would prevent the “administrators” in the zeitgeist society from tweaking the allocation computer to fit their needs, much like the rich and powerful manipulate legislation in todays model? Obviously there are huge problems with the global economic system, but can any system/institution avoid human corruption? Even religious institutions (e.g. Catholic Church) have had their fair share of corruption and scandal.
The best things to take from the Zeitgeist film was the initial portion about humans and human development, as well as the final potential layout for a future city.
So I watched it yesterday. I found it thought provoking in the best way possible. As far as the last hour of the movie goes, when talking about the ideal societal structure I can’t help but disagree that it would work as well as the creators think it will. I think there would be inequality in terms of who would have to work (3% according to the movie) and what would everyone else spend their time doing. I really do believe that there is a real need for competition and the idea of “capitalism” BUT of course i agree that it has been taken to a WHOLE new level with the stock market, and the HUGE environmental wastes that our society produces. I think that this documentary is on to something HUGE and I think everyone should watch it.
|Fedor A Prozorov|
So where do we start after we return the money? do i give half of my fridge to my neighbor? how do you convince millions and millions of people to give up their greedy and evil habits? If media was on the same page you can easily teach the young minds of this subject. But just a personal opinion there needs to be a leader in order for all of this start, someone to guide the people to a better world. Much respect, this is a good site
First of all I’d like to adress your statement about qualifications because I think in an healthy discussion, whether it consists of conspiracy theorists or truck drivers, I believe no one is 100% wrong. This answer by Noam Chomsky comes to mind:
Man: Mr. Chomsky, I’m wondering what specific qualifications you have to be able to speak all around the country about world affairs?
Chomsky: None whatsoever. I mean, the qualifications that I have to speak on world affairs are exactly the same ones Henry Kissinger has, and Walt Rostow has, or anybody in the Political Science Department, professional historians–none, none that you don’t have. The only difference is, I don’t pretend to have qualifications, nor do I pretend that qualifications are needed. I mean, if somebody were to ask me to give a talk on quantum physics, I’d refuse–because I don’t understand enough. But world affairs are trivial: there’s nothing in the social sciences or history or whatever that is beyond the intellectual capacities of an ordinary fifteen-year-old. You have to do a little work, you have to do some reading, you have to be able to think, but there’s nothing deep–if there are any theories around that require some special kind of training to understand, then they’ve been kept a carefully guarded secret.
In fact, I think the idea that you’re supposed to have special qualifications to talk about world affairs is just another scam–it’s kind of like Leninism [position that socialist revolution should be led by a "vanguard" party]: it’s just another technique for making the population feel that they don’t know anything, and they’d better just stay out of it and let us smart guys run it. In order to do that, what you pretend is that there’s some esoteric discipline, and you’ve got to have some letters after your name before you can say anything about it. The fact is, that’s a joke.
Understanding Power, pg. 137
Do you feel we lost our morals because in general the lives of the people that run the system have a spiritually nihlistic foundation? Or, as in your example, would the vet choose to do his business in an ethical way if he had a stronger moral foundation? Or, does the structure of capitalism shape most vets, no matter what their foundation may be?
An Enlightened society needs ofcourse much more than meditation, but yes, it would be a fundamental foundation. As long as you don’t experience living, everything else will be based on illusions. Same point from another perspective, I think meditation could close the gap between science and spirituality, getting the same conclusion from different angles always creates a more cooperative whole. The new trends of education have already found this route through psychology and I believe many more will folow. Eastern wisdom, Western mind. Ironic dualism?
I definately believe we live in exciting times, and who can know for sure what the influence of the internet and all other trends will bring? Only He, up there, knows, maybe; Or perhaps, not even He.
Don’t mind me, but I’m sure the only answer lies in a higher state of being. We’re all just cave people who have gotten really, really, really good at math. We need some Human 2.0s up in here!! From what I’ve seen and read (I’m sure not much compared to you gentlemen, but my fair share), I believe a literal “upgrade” in our default imbued empathy will be needed to create real change. I don’t know how long that will take, but I know it will be very gradual, and I know I see it happening around me with discussions such as this – and I’m totally down with it. I take full responsibility for seeming idealistic and naive. Continue, smart people!! :)
I 100% agree with you; who are you to distinguish between who is qualified or unqualified to speak upon a subject like this? Statements like that made against this film actually are just proving it right all together, that individuals in our society are brainwashed and conditioned to believe that this is the only ways in which an economy can be run. Critics are saying things like ” it would be a mad dash to over pay for the goods they need to sustain normal life” ….but I thought you watched the film? You might want to go back and actually pay attention this time and listen instead of sitting there and thinking of the argument you’re going to post on threads like this. There would not be a payment plan like we have now. Please just, simply put, think outside of the box. Critics like Krish and other people on this forum are being applauded by these large corporations, like ones mentioned who buy stocks according to how many people are in jails, how many people are sick, how many people are basically miserable for there own expense.
Have any of you watched the film “Esoteric Agenda” produced by Ben Stewart? It is similar to the Zeitgeist films in the way information is presented. The scope is much the same, with different information. If you like ZM, you will probably like this guy too. I don’t know if he has ‘qualifications.’ But I do know that he is human. He has a brilliant mind and a voice to be heard. I happen to like his films. The sequel called “Kymatica” is even better than his first, in my humble opinion. Both of these films are well over an hour. So those of you with the attention span of a gnat, don’t bother.
And Jordan, Thank you for posting the ZM film! And for providing a place for discussion about it. Most of my friends scoff at the so-called ‘crazy conspiracy stuff’ and think I’m a loon for watching these films. This community is such a breath of fresh air!
@Ashley – No offense, but your train of logic seems suspect.
If group (A) says something (We will call it a math question in this case) along the lines of 34 x Y (87* 45>34* – B) 47/34 = 12. Then solves it without fully explaining their math that a current understanding of math cannot solve this problem correctly.
Then group (B) comes along and solves it using an existing concept of math, showing that the answer from group (A) is either incorrect or possibly incorrect. Group (A) suddenly has the monopoly on truth, because when they made their initial claim that there would be dissent against their claims of validity? That is questionable logic AT BEST and foolishness at worst. Not meaning to call you down, but your position on the matter should be clarified :/
I disagree with Zeitgeist in practice because it like many films of good intention is akin to the Underpants Gnomes. Steal underwear, ????? , Profit! It offers a utopian answer, an delightful alternative, but no realistic way to implement the answer or adjust existing structure peacefully and manageable to the alternative. Not saying the film is wrong. I’m saying it has some missing math.
Has anyone else watched the documentary called “The One Percent”? It’s definitely an amateur film. But well worth watching IMO. The trustifarian great grandson of the Johnson &Johnson Company’s founder interviews a whole bunch of filthy rich people. He asks a lot of good questions, and their answers certainly reveal how flawed (and SICK) our current economic system is. Want to learn about the ever growing wealth gap between America’s elite and the rest of us?
If you like that, you might enjoy a video that isn’t based on bizarre insane ramblings of conspiracy theorists, but rather direct tacit experience
Who is that directed at?
Anyone who seriously believes that shifting personal responsibility onto some mysterious shadowy conspirator is anything more than moral laziness. So people who buy into the Zeitgeist bullshit.
Stephen, will you please elaborate? How is this movie any more accurate than Zietgeist?
His video is equally accurate really. Simply shorter and infinity less complex in the nature of it’s inaccuracy. Zeitgeist i simply more elaborate with an attempt at positive outlook. In the end it is also a system of messages which are neither verified or conclusively proven.
Did you read my post that defines ‘conspiracy’? Please do. I am not a conspirator! Please stop calling me one. Also, these ideas are not of conspiracy. They are just that: ideas. Information presented in an unconventional way? Definitely. Difficult for a socially conditioned mind to absorb? Probably. Conspiracy? Not at all.
@Stephen- I Love You. And baby I won’t hurt you ;)
At a glance I can’t find your conspiracy post anywhere. Also, Stephen didn’t call anyone here anything.
I wish to holy hell I had more time to watch that movie (I thought it was 2 minutes at first not 2 hours haha).. I’ve skimmed through some of this (and don’t have time give a well thought out answer).. but I’ve given this a lot of thought & have had NO ONE to talk to about it…god I love you guys! So, a short answer–without having watched the movie or really read through everyone’s responses, so I apologize if I repeat or disregard what someone has already said.
Simply..money does not equal hard work. I don’t think I need to elaborate on that, it’s fact. Some 3% of the entire world’s population owns 90 some % of ALL the money IN THE WORLD. Exact figures? It’s something like that tho– that’s disgusting and scary. And we keep hearing-the rich are getting richer & the poor are getting poorer. Ok, logical math—the way things are set up…someday the rich will have about all the money & resources & the general population will have next to nothing. This scares the crap out of me. And we are all chasing our tails in this rat race not many people notice–and those who do are thought to be crazy.
It’s closer to 13% control a low 80% of the worlds resources. New figures would include fresh water and other untapped resources.
“Anyone who seriously believes that shifting personal responsibility onto some mysterious shadowy conspirator is anything more than moral laziness. So people who buy into the Zeitgeist bullshit.”
Frankly I can’t defend him because he directly accuses people in the thread of moral laziness. Not everyone, and no one person in particular. However the implication is DISTINCTLY clear.
I’ll tell you there’s never any reason to take anything personally–bc it has nothing to do with the person/people the negativity is directed at–it has to do with interpreting the world differently and misunderstanding the other person’s description. But it’s impossible to really see things from another person’s point of view. These situations are when you throw down your swords, agree to disagree, kiss & make up, and realize you’re all on the same team <3
@ Em – wise words! TY :)
@ Linsay–muah! & what’s TY? (I’m new here)
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