Punishment

2 years, 4 months ago

I had two interesting relative thoughts, if we are punished and we do not question our punishment does that make us weak? And does accepting punishment and submitting give us mental strength?

Like if I were to of committed a crime that was in my nature, and I didn’t question why I was locked up then I would be lying to myself.

Or if I did something that was an accident against my nature but didn’t hesitate to argue that it was an accident and took the punishment, does that make me mentally strong?

Seem to not know how to feel about these things, your opinions?

December 5, 2012 at 8:06 pm

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Profile photo of highideals highideals (@highideals) 2 years, 4 months ago ago

well… I’m unsure about this.

Since right and wrong are societally constructed.. who is to say it goes in either direction?
I believe that one can determine right and wrong based on life experiences personally. Therefore what is right to one may be wrong to another. And, in this same sense if we each have our own definitions of right and wrong i would say that the rest depends on integrity. And by integrity i mean that if we can assess what is right and what is wrong in our own individual reality, we can then judge based on our experiences to determine a logical punishment.. However, i am unsure if you are referring to a “godly intangible punishment” or one that is societally produced such as “federal law” Because if you look at it in godly terms their would be an all powerful “Truth” with a capital T. and this truth would reflect exactly what is wrong and what is right and how you are punished for doing wrong (hell or something like that). However i believe that their is no all powerful “Truth” and that right and wrong varies from situation to situation depending on context and previous experiences. Therefore who is one imperfect human to tell another imperfect human that what they are doing is right or wrong? Since right and wrong dont exist.. they are just creations of society to keep us in line.

Hope this helps…

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Profile photo of ELI var namnet ELI var namnet (@manimal) 2 years, 4 months ago ago

@everymorningbornfromtheashes,

Depends what aspect of your mind you’re talking about. And what kind of questioning.

Fighting back always strengthens your mindframe, but it can weaken other parts of your mind, especially awareness and sense of truth. Because to keep a strong mindframe often means you must close your mind and project. Especially when you’re fighting for untruth or uncertainties, that’s guaranteed to lock you down.

If you do not question when you’re punished for something you didn’t do wrong, then you are plain weak. If you submit, then you are plain weak. Submission does not strengthen the mind, it only weakens it.
Most of all, it stifles the spirit, drops your self esteem, puts you in a purely reactive state. You lose all your power, and the mind tries to protect itself, this inevitably leads to a buildup of bullshit.

Your mind is always weakened when you’re not questioning. The fact that a person does not question is a surefire indicator of a weak mind.
The free mind is always curious, always wants to know, always wants to get ahead.

A weak mind is never free. Not all strong minds are free either, but a weak mind can never be free.
A weak mind is afraid of freedom, and keeps building more bullshit to keep itself locked tight.

Here’s some questions. What IS your nature? What IS an accident, REALLY?
How are you so sure that there really are such things to blame? How do you know that you didn’t somehow make it happen? How do you know that someone else didn’t “make” you do it?
Etc.

A strong mind needs no punishment, it punishes itself sufficiently.

Regardless of strength of mind, most artificial/external punishments are just salt in the wounds. Completely unnecessary.

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Profile photo of MPHill MPHill (@everymorningbornfromtheashes) 2 years, 4 months ago ago

@highideals, Yeah, that helps a lot, so because right and wrong are social constructs to keep us in line we feel an adequate punishment ensues based on our experiences with law or truth or Truth, and weather or not we agree with it.

So is it safe to say with what you’ve said we as humans developed a system that punishes for what many many many individuals feel is an adequate punishment for things a person outside the scope deems acceptable? Wow. That is quite enlightening.

And if you believe in a Truth, heaven/hell that is more up to you (considering there is no physical proof of either). It could be used as a way to cope with a considerable amount of selfish gains that one feels like society shouldn’t punish for.

Thanks for your help you really took the time to figure this brain teaser out I appreciate it so much :)

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Profile photo of MPHill MPHill (@everymorningbornfromtheashes) 2 years, 4 months ago ago

@manimal, Thanks for taking your time to get to me on this perplexing issue I’ve been pondering.

“Fighting back always strengthens your mindframe, but it can weaken other parts of your mind, especially awareness and sense of truth”

Okay, I agree with that. And you say that an extreme rebellion is a stupid rebellion basically? Like, I maybe able to argue a point but am I arguing it and neglecting that I don’t believe all of it just to prove myself completely correct.

So fighting for untruths and uncertainties locks me down? That is very perceptive, because If I know it to be untrue, or I feel uncertain that what I am saying is true, I am only the only one that knows that personally. But if I keep battling it then I am just projecting a view point in it’s stereotype so to speak.

I agree constantly questioning is what keeps a strong mind, but I feel like submitting is necessary to avoid suffering when force or logic can not prevail. So I ran into that wall.

But I like what you have to say on weak minds being weak because they are weak in the first place. I do believe that… I believe it can change, with dedication.

And the reactive state is something that is punishing all in its own.

How strong does a mind have to be to be free? Is my new question for you. How is it measured? By actions or thoughts or a combination I wonder? But there are always prisons the mind can not conceive. So how strong and how perceptive must one be?
Also,
You say the mind punishes its self. It could make the best out of any situation then. What is the difference between that and submission? I think you are getting at that it is different because it will find comfort in ignorance of some kind the persons actions.

Do you think we should even have a legal system if they are unnecessary, or do you think it is good as salt in the wounds even though it is unnecessary?

I am looking for this information myself, but I appreciate you helping me sort it all out :)

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