Purpose of a Soldier
It seems that it is considered morally wrong to not support our troops. Americans are expected to unquestioningly respect and admire the troops for their service. What purpose are our soldiers serving these days ? It seems obvious to me that the U.S. is not in Iraq or Afghanistan to fight evil Nazis or protect innocent people. In fact many of those people hate the soldiers and don’t want them there. .However, year after year thousands of people are killed and billions of dollars are lost . This is why I don’t and many other people don’t support the war. Therefore it would seem logical that you can’t support the troops if you don’t support the war , right?
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@smalls Way to discuss in a civilized manner, immediately going for the ad hominem bullshit like an 8yo ADHD kid. Very mature…
If I’ve been part of any military? I served a while in Kosovo and later in Afghanistan, it wasn’t very long ago that my contract ran out.
Desertion is punishable by death in some backwards countries, and long prison sentences in others. Yes, it is punishable, but that’s a risk a person must be willing to take in order to be free. If you can’t take a risk like that, you don’t really want to be free that much, and then you might as well serve. Freedom is something a man must take, it will never be given to him. If you sacrifice freedom for safety, you deserve neither.
I never said you don’t have the right to disobey unlawful orders. Correct orders must nonetheless be obeyed, that’s the deal. Pulling the trigger is indeed your choice, and so is staying or leaving. It’s all your choice, there’s nobody else to blame.
A game player? You gave your time and attention to someone else’s cause, just because they offered money and some other stuff. You got your strings pulled, mate. That makes you a puppet. And you could have ended up in situations where you more or less “had to” kill people, just for some payment, so it looks like there’s a bit of monster in the equation too.
Being a patriot is another puppet trait, and the rulers of the US are monsters, so you just validated my claims anyway.
They say war is hell, and it’s easy to see why. Being surrounded by death is no fun at all, anyone with real experience knows that.
No. Not really. Yep. Nope. Not really. Nopetinope.
How would having a bank account turn someone into a puppet? It’s nice to have a place to put my money, and getting interest is nice too. I’m gaining from it, and it’s not like the situation is out of my control.
Now THIS is laughable. Your assumptions are not correct. I do not live under anyone’s system, sure I am part of some systems but there is nothing controlling me there, and I could easily leave at any given time. Using the internet, puppetish? How? I am simply using an electronic device to communicate, there is nobody controlling me there. And I’m not exactly known for following rules, which you probably remember.
Sure, I was a major puppet, I wouldn’t deny that. But that was in the past, I have no strings to pull. I think that’s the biggest advantage of this lifestyle.
What if you lost your job and the situation became out of your control. They can screw your credit, and claim anything you own that’s worth money if it came down to it. They convince you about what your making off them, but they’re making more off you than you make off them.
If you want to close out your account they can tell you that you owe them money for closing your account. If you ignore them they can put you in collections. They can screw you over for a minimum of 8 years and they still have you convinced that your the one in control.
Yes, it is an excuse. And I don’t know about you, but I think death would be a very inconvenient penalty. I get your point, but as I said, if you sacrifice freedom for safety you deserve no freedom. And no safety either. If you aren’t willing to face the risk of dying for what you want, you don’t deserve to have it. That’s why the people who take great risks achieve the most.
I did serve, but how has that got anything to do with agreeing with irresponsible who play the blame game? I knew what I signed up for, signing up for something without understanding the terms is idiocy. I knew I would be pushed and pulled without mercy, and I knew I would have to face a bunch of fuckers who wanted to shoot me, and I knew that maybe I’d have to kill. It was part of the deal, I chose to sign up so there was no sense in complaining. Neither did my comrades complain, they took responsibility for their choices. We all knew what we signed up for, we all knew what roles we would have to play. We learned to like it.
I’m not the one that doesn’t understand, you are. A person who signs up for something he doesn’t want is a jackass, the rest is just a bunch of excuses.
Now I ask you, have YOU served?
Soldiers, Marines, sailors and airmen are all trained to fight. However, it isn’t their jurisdiction as to WHO and WHY they are fighting. It’s the ultimate decision of the President, Congress and House of Representatives.
I can understand that people wouldn’t support the current war, or the troops involved. But consider this: if the government makes the military force’s decisions, then should you support it [the government]? After all, it is the American people that voted these guys and gals in office. If you feel shame towards warriors, then you should also feel shame to your fellow citizens, as they played a part in the ultimate decision-making by voting representatives into office.
Just a thought.
@manimal, where was the ad hominem? I said I didn’t want to make assumptions about you, so I asked if you ever had served. Maybe it’s not so nice to have you back, things were nice while you were away.
“You gave your time and attention to someone else’s cause, just because they offered money and some other stuff. You got your strings pulled, mate.”
Hmm… that sounds like every job, or are people in your world just doing shitty jobs they hate out of the kindness of their hearts? My point was that I wasn’t delusional about what would happen, or what I might have to do, I knew full well what it entailed, and I thought the benefits outweighed the costs (still do).
Being a patriot is a “puppet trait?” I didn’t say I thought my country was perfect, we can do no wrong, and everything we touch turns to gold. Just simply that I love the US, I hate the direction we seem to be going, but I’m happy to have been born here and I think we still have the potential to right the ship.
“Correct orders must nonetheless be obeyed, that’s the deal. Pulling the trigger is indeed your choice, and so is staying or leaving. It’s all your choice, there’s nobody else to blame.”
I completely agree with you there, but I didn’t stay in because I was afraid of punishment, I’m sure that may be the case for some people though.
I don’t have a job. Remember in my last post when I answered “no” to your question “do you have a job?” Priceless.
Nor will the situation go out of my control, since I pay attention to what I’m doing. But let’s say it did, it wouldn’t bother me one bit. So what if I lost a bunch of shit? It’s just a bunch of stuff, some of which is more or less just abstract concepts, there’s plenty of stuff in this world. But let’s say I did care about this stuff, and they wanted to take it, I could prevent it through methods such as hiding or misleading. They make money off of the accumulation of many people’s savings, not a single person, and ironically people with more savings get more returns. And if they were making a bit more off the deal than I, that would be worth it for the service and I would know.
But it’s all off topic. This is about soldiers, not money. If you want to discuss money we can do so elsewhere.
@ortezjp Now this is good. Indeed, signing up for something you don’t want is crazy, and they’re definitely wasting their talent on fighting when they could instead help build and improve.
@ortezjp, “In fact many of those people hate the soldiers and don’t want them there”
Can I ask where you get this ‘fact’? Is it from experience? Or is that what the media tells you? Certainly the Taliban and their supporters aren’t fond of us, we’re there to get them out. In fact my Battalion’s sole mission was to remove the Taliban from 1 town in the south. Say what you want about our Government’s underlying purposes for being there, we had nothing to do with any of that, ours was to protect civilians, and push the Taliban out. The only reason I bring it up is because every local Afghani that I had the pleasure of meeting was very grateful, and helpful. We built wells, protected schools, handed out school supplies and water. I can’t speak to the rest of the areas in either conflict, but in ours, they were definitely better off with us there instead of the Taliban.
@zonetti, Why don’t the presidents fight the wars? They do. They are the commander in chief of the armed forces. If you’re asking why don’t they fire a gun, it’s because that isn’t their role in the war. If you’re going to chastise the president for not being a grunt (and remember that many historical presidents are veterans), you had best chastise yourself for not lacing up your boots as well.
So have I volunteered for service? No, seeing how the military doesn’t want to pay for my medical bills (guess that means I’m 4-F). However, I still hold onto a set of principals that says that those who can fight but choose not to are lower in society than those who fight only for themselves. Those who fight for the sake of others, such as soldiers, are among the highest in society.
@smalls How is beginning a post with an intended insult not an attempt at ad hominem? Sure, you edited it out, but that doesn’t change anything. And the two posts are still littered with pointless and uncalled for derogatory slurs such as “your laughable oversimplifications.”
Jobs are for puppets, I never said they weren’t. And while you might not have been that delusional about what the service entailed, you still got your strings pulled just because they waved a paycheck.
Being a patriot is a puppet trait, yes, there’s no denying it. How is surrendering to a system and letting it draw your boundaries anything else but becoming a puppet? If you have a ruler, you are a puppet, it’s that simple.
@ortezjp, I support people willing to risk their live for me.
That being said, I have no idea if those men/women are doing that and I am fairly certain that our government is NOT even CLOSE to doing that, so yeah…
@comicsanmc Then you must have misread the part about my definition. It’s nowhere in there, you made it up. That’s just pathetic, if you can’t discuss things without making shit up you shouldn’t discuss at all. And if it was an honest misunderstanding, then pay more attention when reading/listening or don’t discuss.
One who has no strings to pull cannot be a puppet, and I lost my strings quite a long time ago. That’s why I spread this way of being, so people won’t be puppets “against their will.”
@bongodeburrito, It’s OK. The majority of people who crucify soldiers for supporting an agenda they disprove of support the same agendas as a civilian all while feeling morally superior.
The purpose of a soldier is to serve and protect. All men should be trained, but never follow an order other than their hearts. I know this sounds dumb and possibly naivly unviable as there is no time for such matters when immediate action is life or death, but I believe there is something underlying what I’m saying that is founded in truth.
And as the guy above me reminds me. Soldiers think they are morally superior, as they put on the facade of martyr, for people who don’t ask them to.
Are you not bound by societies laws and conventions? Do you pay taxes? Do you have a bank account? Do you have an apartment lease? Do you have a job at all? Are you in school.
By your own definition any of the following makes you a puppet. Besides you still have control over yourself. You can quit following what anyone tells you as a human. Just depends on whether or not your willing to accept he consequences of such actions.
Ah true enough there isn’t any direct line of text that brought me to that conclusion. I suppose it was more a definition that resulted from the ongoing conversation as to what we define a puppet as. The closest I came to it is below.
“You gave your time and attention (money) to someone else’s cause (making money off your money), just because they offered money and some other stuff (Interest on your money). You got your strings pulled, mate (homie). That makes you a puppet (Pinocchio).”
I think were getting too bogged down specifically in warzones like Iraq and Afghanistan that are surrounded in controversy.
How about the air superiority campaign in Libya that allowed them to at least try their hand at democracy. The US Naval Hegemony in the Asia Pacific and South East Asian Region has meant that many of the governments there have seen no need for military build ups, distrust, and military competition in their region. Meaning because the US military is present there as a dominant humanitarian (Yes Bitches I said Humanitarian) and peacekeeping force those countries haven’t seen the need to fight eachother.
During the tsunami’s in Asia a few years back US Carriers hooked their generators up to the power grids of cities who’s power generation was destroyed by natural disaster. Hospital ships can be parked off the coast of an impoverished country to provide them with humanitarian assistance and health care they’d normally have to travel half the world for.
The genocide in Rwanda was possible largely because the international community was unwilling to pledge military support to stop it. Between 800,000-1,000,000 million humans were butchered with machete’s over a course of 3 months. I bet they would’ve appreciated a few soldiers at that point.
I don’t support everything the military does, but if we all put on our critical thinking caps and get past our cognitive bias, the answers you come up with may surprise you.
@manimal, the only reason I edited is because it didn’t make sense, because originally I didn’t ask if you had served. But since I don’t know you I didn’t want to assume, no ad hominem there. And your oversimplification was, to me, laughable, not sorry if that hurt your feelings, so sensitive.
So then your argument isn’t that I was a puppet, so much as it’s that everybody is a puppet? Unless you’re living on some chunk of land that isn’t ‘owned’ by a government, in a house you built for yourself, eating food that you acquired and grew for yourself. Unless you are completely isolated and self sufficient, you’re a puppet? So I suppose, if that’s the way you choose to define it. So are you a puppet? I mean I know you were, because you said you served. I mean, are you currently not living under someone else’s system? Are you an expat? Have you given up all citizenship? You’re on the internet right now, so I’m guessing you’re on somebody’s system. Everybody is a puppet, even the people at the top are puppets to other people at the top. The only person who isn’t is the guy sitting in a log cabin somewhere, off the grid, patting himself on the back for ‘cutting the strings.’ But screw being that guy, not for me, I’d rather try to do some good for those who aren’t fortunate enough to have the opportunities that I have. You can call me a puppet then I guess, means nothing to me in that case.