Religion; is it real or a business? Is it still needed?

2 years, 10 months ago

I know there’s been a number of conversations on religion and I didnt want to spam them so I started my own…

I’m looking for feedback on the show we did on religion from many different people…your opinion is ok whether it differs or not, i think we should be able to see each others opinions without getting hostile.

The show can be found here http://www.spreaker.com/user/solace015/ep_32_religion_pt_1

May 15, 2012 at 12:41 pm

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Profile photo of Ray Butler Ray Butler M (@trek79) 2 years, 10 months ago ago

I have a hell of a lot of comments on the other religious discussions but to summarize: The Bible is an example of how we fall short, even the Ten commandments are about how LOVE may manifest in our lives. That is the ultimate aim, that righteousness is love. But a lot of religious people take such instructions, or rather examples of how we fall short, as permission to be judgemental. Rather that righteousness being love, righteousness is confused for judgementality. When you have a mass of people with a judgemental religion that has been engineered to be sympathetic to the sovereign or authority, the fear of deviation instills in the general populace, manifesting in ideas like lynching and inquisitions.
So I agree with your opinions on religion being a control, but also in the case of love being a faith, this is a moderator also but for the right reason, care not fear, and such a faith is often in defiance of sovereign or authoritarian rule in itself, and so faith becomes the target, the enemy, of religious doctorine.
Evidence on defering away from the message of Jesus, primarily love, to more irrelevant principles elevated to greater importance than that message, muddy the water so that hate can be employed. Examples of this muddying of the message are: Jesus is the son of God, or even IS God. Jesus is lord and saviour, no one comes to God except through him. These things are detestable to God…blah. You will go to hell if…blah.
Then comes in all these ideas, we must separate ourselves from the sinners lest we be corrupted and be destroyed with them, we are better than them, we shall inherit the Earth while they suffer eternal damnation…blah. Suddenly we are segregated and giving up on each other. Jesus didn’t do this but we are led by our religions to do it. A common idea is that we all sin, and sin is sin, but we are not led to believe that by our religions.
I just believe you can love or hate others, not tolerate them because tolerating is what you do to actions and non-human things. You can try not to harm others or interfer with their choices, or not care or deliberately do such things, but ant other alleged sin that does not harm others, or harm others against their will, is irrelevant.
I’d rather have love for people and try not to harm others or interfer with their choices, but I’m an idealist, but I also highly value the right to choose what you do. You can tell people they are harming others, or interfering with the choices of others, just in case they don’t realize their consequences, but who is to stop them? The sovereign or authority, perhaps that grants them some leighway.

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Profile photo of Ray Butler Ray Butler M (@trek79) 2 years, 10 months ago ago

When you say “Faith” it is associated with belief and hope, stuff like that, even the metaphysical. When you say “Love” it is associated with emotion, caring, compassion, romance. When I speak of love, it is in part these things but it is also a fundamental property of the universe. Love is scientific, not only in psychology and neuro-chemistry, but in the quantum universe.
You can observe love in nature, not just in animals, but in the constructive relationships of matter and energy. What defines love? Would you not consider it co-existing, co-operating, converging and combining to form a larger, more complex unit, a unifying and structuring of individual components into a purposeful community? This is exactly what atoms, energy, even “strings” do but this is not called love. Why not?
Atoms are not self aware emotional beings with conceptual thought, that we know of, yet they display these relationships, which means that either they actually are self aware emotional beings with conceptual thought, or that love in itself is not exclusively a human emotion but a state we all exists within, it simply just manifests in out nature no doubt because of its fundamentality.
So what is its source? Some kind of non-local consciousness? God? Now that part is a matter of faith.

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Profile photo of Ray Butler Ray Butler M (@trek79) 2 years, 10 months ago ago

On the flip-side of that coin, hate/destructive forces also are a fundamental property of the universe, one that is as irrevocably nessecary to the function of the universe as love. The Yin cannot be without the Yang otherwise the universe spirals in on itself and implodes.

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Profile photo of Solace015 Solace015 (@solace015) 2 years, 10 months ago ago

@trek79, I didn’t want to respond and and interject my own opinions or responses to your statements until the conversation died…apparently its just you and I but I honestly think that the business of religion has no place in our society anymore.

While I personally do not have faith, I understand the need for it. It guides us, helps us answer the eternal question why but also creates conflict since many people [especially in the middle east] cannot accept other people’s opinions or beliefs.

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Profile photo of Ray Butler Ray Butler M (@trek79) 2 years, 10 months ago ago

Many people all over can’t accept peoples beliefs if they hear them, forget about singling out the Middle East. If one belief system doesn’t leave room for others to have their own belief system then people will be against it but also if it does allow them then it will not be accepted by others. A lot of religions are absolute, it is when people have their own interpretations of faith that freedom and preference of choice and structure arise, for themselves and others.
The fact that it is a choice that people take means that it still has business in modern society, it is when the choice to follow any given religion is removed that it no longer has a place. But there is social pressure for people to conform with a religion, especially the more traditional communities around the world.
Western pop culture communities are incredibly liberal towards religion. On one hand, people are free to find a deeper meaning and what works for them which is a positive, but in the negative other people have less or no consideration for others. You can say what you want about people from the Middle East but generally, without a religious debate arising, they are polite and accomodating people who will help a stranger, a lot of the people in my neighbourhood wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire.

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Profile photo of Solace015 Solace015 (@solace015) 2 years, 10 months ago ago

@trek79, I only single out the middle east, not in an effort to discriminate, but in a basic realization that a lot of the wars are because of religion [that or power or freedom of the people etc]

AS for everything else you said, so true…and how very sad

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Profile photo of Ray Butler Ray Butler M (@trek79) 2 years, 10 months ago ago

I mean apathy is a huge problem in a liberal society, conflict of belief is mostly between seperate religious societies, but within their communities apathy is for the most part non-existent. Just as many conflicts arise from people who don’t care for others as there is from people who care too much for their beliefs. (but I can’t back up that statement, but it sounds reasonable)

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