Discuss? Personally, I think we may find in the future that the Higgs field is what provides us with consciousness. They say that the field permeates everything, and quite literally gives everything it’s matter. And other properties of quantum physics suggest that reality is not merely matter, but an interaction of matter and concious experience. Could the Higgs field be subjectivity manifest?
@dsundre, Science is not silly. It is why you have a computer in the first place. Science has not dabbled with human experience as evidence so far, but I believe it needs to take that leap into psychedelics and “mystical” experiences (meditation and such). Don’t go bad mouthing science, it is why I am currently talking to you right now.
@mercurial, I don’t understand why people are hating on science. Yea children dying around the world is important, but if your going to trivialize a topic, why not chose one of the many on this site that are truly useless. Not to mention by trivializing this topic, your patronizing all those who care about it. I’m not into spirituality and mysticism like many on this site, but I try to understand and internalize their opinions regardless of the fact that they are not in line with my proclivities, its called being open minded.
Dr Hagelin does a good job of explaining in layman’s terms, the connection between Science and Spirituality…
John Hagelin, Ph.D on Consciousness 1 of 2
@imhotep, one day you should try and set up a real meditation practice for your self, with your open mind…
nice piece for you to cogitate on by the above Dr. Hagelin:
The impact of our actions, individually and collectively, is inconceivably vast. We can all appreciate, to some extent, the environmental impact of polluting behavior. But based on what we now know about the universe, the true impact of our actions is far broader. For example, chaos theory has established that even our most minute actions can have incalculably large effects. This places a great burden of responsibility on everyone. Exercising common sense consideration and care towards our environment is a good start. But if we really want to protect our planet against the negative effects of human behavior, we must bring our thinking and action into spontaneous accord with Natural Law. We must align our behavior with the universal intelligence that governs the universe and sustains millions of species on Earth. Fortunately, such spontaneously life-nourishing behavior is natural; the human brain physiology is hard-wired to experience Enlightenment–higher states of consciousness in which we directly experience, and become attuned to, cosmic intelligence, or the Unified Field in the terminology of modern physics. The development of our total brain potential, and the resulting expansion of human comprehension to be universal, should be the goal of education today.
The Unified Field is the deepest level of physical reality discovered by Science. It is a universal field of Nature’s intelligence that governs the vast universe with perfect order. Cosmic Consciousness is the state of Enlightenment, a state of human awareness in which the individual mind directly experiences (and identifies with) universal intelligence. In this state, the individual ego expands to become Cosmic. Such individuals are Cosmic individuals, and their actions are spontaneously supportive to all life.
The connection is simple. During meditation, consciousness quickly expands to experience universal consciousness (the Unified Field). The individual consciousness temporarily identifies with universal consciousness in the simplest state of awareness–the state physiologists call “pure consciousness.” Not all meditation techniques achieve this pure consciousness experience, however. My remarks pertain to meditation practices that provide this fundamental experience in an effective and efficient manner.
More than 50 studies, published in the world’s most esteemed scientific journals, have repeatedly demonstrated that group meditation can quell violence and war in war-torn areas. It defuses the acute religious, ethnic and political tensions that fuel social conflict. It has been shown to prevent global terrorism, and to reduce crime, domestic violence, and all negativity born of acute social stress.
When two nearby loudspeakers emit the same sound, these sound waves add constructively. They produce a sound volume equivalent to four loudspeakers (the square of the number of speakers, which is two). This is a universal principle of wave behavior. When a ripple in the Unified Field is generated by individuals in close physical proximity, the power of their combined waves grows as the square of the number of individuals. This is what the research confirms. Because of this, even relatively small groups can have enormous societal impact. Indeed, 8,000 individuals meditating together for extended periods can transform world events. This has been very rigorously demonstrated.
It’s not a matter of opinion. The scientific method provides incontrovertible methods of establishing scientific fact through rigorous experimentation. The efficacy of group meditation to reduce crime and war has been more extensively studied and rigorously established than any phenomenon in the history of social science. It is a scientific fact; there is no room for arguement.
The experience of pure consciousness is self-evident. Just as when you’re awake, you know you’re awake. If you’re not absolutely sure you’re awake, the chances are you are dreaming. Similarly, if you’re not sure you are experiencing pure, unbounded consciousness, then you’re probably not. It may be time to try a more effective system of meditation.
– John Hagelin Phd.
@tigerturban, meditation has never really done anything for me. Although it’s very possible I’m doing something wrong. Many people, I think, create there own methods of meditation, meditation is basicly a method to gain focus and clarity. I agree with some of that text you transcribed, but at the end of the day its speculation, correlation doesn’t equal causation. I do think there are multiple path to reach similar conclusions, as was eluded to in the text. If I’m part of this “Cosmic Consciousness” collective, aren’t my perceptions and ideas, just as true as yours, given that were the flip side of the same coin? I would be interested in getting a few book recomendations from you or anyone else, on meditation, or this subject matter.
@imhotep, What exactly is Meditation ?
OK ! What is Meditation ?
I hope by now you know ‘what is not meditation’.
(If not read What is not meditation )
Let us see what is meditation.
Meditation is a process to know who we really are.
If I ask you, ” Who are you?” what will you say ?
You may say – Well I am 25, male, American , white, Roman catholic, Masters in Computer Science, doing a job in HP, planning to marry this year.
Does the above answer describe you completely?
Probably you would like to add this : OK I am 5’11”, strongly built, curly hair, clean shaved, love ice-cream and Coke, my hobbies include surfing the internet, gardening and watching movies ..
Again I shall ask, ” Does that describe you completely?”
Tell me If you were not born in America, of white parents and instead had born in an African village, of black parents, inherited a tribal religion and never got a chance to read or write, what would be your answer to the question:” Who are you”
Think over it
All the identities that we call ours – our name, our nationality, religion, education, physical appearance and thoughts – all of them are the sum total of circumstance under which we born and grow.
You are a white American catholic, it’s because of the family you are born in.
If you are long/ short, thin/ thick, strong/weak, it’s because of the genes you’ve inherited from your parents.
If you have a masters degree from Harvard, it’s because you get the opportunity (which is the sum total of your hard work and your luck) to study there.
Think it over.
What if you had born of different parents, with a different name, a different nationality, religion, education, physical appearance and thoughts- in short under a different set of circumstances ?
Well the attributes which we use to describe ourselves are just the result of being born in a particular set of circumstances. Had we gotten a different set of circumstance then we would be a different person.
Well why I am discussing this?
Just to tell you who you really are.
The attributes which you use to describe yourself – like your name, nationality, religion, height, physical appearance- no matter how exactly they describe you with reference to your place in this world, they can not describe the real you. They can not describe the fundamental unchanged aspect of your being which remains intact in all circumstances.
No matter where you born in, no matter of which religion you follow, of which nationality you belong to or what is your educational or financial status, you have an identity which is independent of all these external attributes. The identity which is the fundamental core of your very existence in this world. Meditation is a mean to recognize that identity – yours true identity.
What is this identity? Who you really are?
In reality you are just consciousness.
You are not body, you are not mind, you are not thoughts, you are just consciousness which feels and witness everything as you play your part in life. This consciousness by its very nature is peaceful, calm and rejuvenating.
and Meditation is a process to know this consciousness within you.
@imhotep,, there is also a gigantic amount of information relating to meditation/consciousness studies/experimentation going on world wide. Maybe do some investigation yourself to see what’s going on in the world to expand your cultural and intellectual horizons.
here is a something pedantic enough to interest even you Imy (taught at a major university) : http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/
@tigerturban, “Pedantic.” No comment. First of all I didn’t disclude the ideas you’re presenting, I was simply stating, that just because something happens at the same time as something else, that doesn’t mean that one occurences cause the other. Further proof is recquired to say something is proved scientificly. FYI I do investigate on my own, I also think my own thoughts, and come to my own conclusions, I try to avoid constantly regurgitating the thoughts of some past intellectual. Something you should consider.
@imhotep, @ijesuschrist, Am I missing something? Please correct me if I’m wrong, but this is my understanding: Schrodinger’s Cat is a ‘thought experiment,’ originally a criticism, a reduction to the absurd, pointing out what Schrodinger saw as a problem with the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics. He wasn’t trying to explain anything, he was trying to mock an already established idea. But for some reason his joke is taken seriously. A cat in a box with poison and radioactive material doesn’t prove or disprove anything (and Schrodinger knew that), it was meant to pose the question, when does a quantum system stop existing as a superposition of states and become one or the other? “if you actually lock a cat in a box like that, nothing magic happens. The cat just dies, and you’re just an asshole.” I would assume what they are attempting to disprove is the Copenhagen Interpretation, I’d be interested in seeing that, but what would disproving something meant as a joke prove?
Schrodinger even starts his letter to Einstein with the line “One can even set up quite ridiculous cases. A cat is penned up in a steel chamber, along with the following device…”
Back to the OP, the Higgs Boson discovery is pretty cool, I’m interested to see what comes of it.
@smalls, It may have been to spite some people’s interpretations of quantum mechanics, but it is in all fairness, a very good paradox as to how quantum mechanics functions, which is why it has remained so prevalent. The cat is both dead and alive until you open the box and view it.
Japanese physicists have observed a particle, before it collapses – “observing” it in 2 states at once. Indicating that, indeed, the cat IS both DEAD and ALIVE, and could even be observed to be so. Which, of course, brings up some very interesting extrapolations.
@mercurial, Sorry man, but although it is the truth you speak this is not much different than the age old “Eat your food. There are children dying in africa.”
It’s a sad truth, but what exactly are you doing about it? I could be overly spiteful about this, but I’ll leave it at that.
@ijesuschrist, my point is that it sounds like the Japanese physicists are attempting to disprove the Copenhagen Interpretation. Working to disprove Schrodinger’s Cat would be fruitless, it’s a joke, a satire. “Schrödinger did not wish to promote the idea of dead-and-alive cats as a serious possibility; quite the reverse, the paradox is a classic reductio ad absurdum.” He simply wanted to ask, mockingly, when does something stop existing as a superposition of states and become one or the other? And describe how one could, in principle, transpose the superposition of an atom to large-scale systems. It was meant to show what he thought was the incompleteness of the Copenhagen Interpretation, rather than to affirm it. Which is what people today seem to have taken it as. I think, at best, it serves as a rather weak metaphor for the Copenhagen Interpretation.
@ijesuschrist, I’m just against the way it’s used today, it promotes a misconception. My answer to it would be “Smalls’ Person:” Wherein I place you in a room for a week without food, water, limited oxygen. After 1 week I put my ear to the door and there’s no noise, you are now both dead and alive, only by opening the door and observing will you be one or the other. But the reality is that you always have a classically defined state, if I open the door and you’re alive you have no recollection of being dead, and if you are dead I can use science to determine at what point exactly you made the transition. The Copenhagen Interpretation is meant to describe the superposition of things that fit neither the classical idea of particles nor the classical idea of waves. Things that exist as simply a possibility spectrum, the act of observation causes that spectrum to collapse instantly and randomly into a reality state. It’s this literal (mis)understanding of Schrodinger’s Cat that leads to the shotty science in movies like What the Bleep Do We Know? Point is, it was just meant to ask the question of why quantum effects apparently break down for classical Newtonian objects.
But it’s all rendered null if you subscribe to the Many-Worlds Theory. Simply put, there is no wavefunction collapse, just the splintering into a reality where the cat is alive, and one where it is dead. Schrodinger’s Cat is great food for thought, if that’s what people use it for, but I find that most just watch Big Bang Theory and blindly accept and regurgitate what they hear in an attempt to seem knowledgeable.
@smalls, Michio Kaku or whatever the fuck his name is is a fan of what you are talking about – making extreme examples of shit.
I somewhat agree, but I don’t think people… never mind. People do believe this stuff.
Many people believe that the moon doesn’t exist until they look at it.
Which, is bullshit. Further more I’d like to understand how superposition works at all, since all things have a gravitational field, everything would be constantly effected (observed in a sense) by the placement of any particle, anywhere. There can never be a particle in two places at once, even if directly not observed, due to its gravitational, or electromagnetic force on all other objects in the universe, no matter how weak – unless, of course, this force is quantized, and there is a limit to the force applicable, which if I remember correctly may actually be the case.
TL:DR – the moon exists, even when nobody observes it, for it is constantly pulling on you with a gravitational field, thereby interacting with all particles, constantly, indirectly displaying it’s existence, and position.