The 80/10/10 (Raw Vegan) Diet
These past few weeks I have been very interested in nutrition and the optimal diet (note, it’s not supposed to be a lose-weight-diet but a way to live), and am fairly convinced that 811rv is the way to go. This is based on reading a few books, including “The 80/10/10 Diet” and Steve Pavlina’s raw food blog posts (he tried the diet for 30 days and posted about it daily, having very good results at the end).
The diet consists of getting at least 80% of your calories from carbs and a maximum of 10% from fat and protein respectively. You should eat only what is raw and whole and exclude animal products. This leaves you with fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds to choose from, although most of the calories should come from fruits anyway.
For the past few days I have been including more fruit in my diet and eating 100% raw for at least breakfast. In September I am planning to do a 3-5 day juice fast and then try the diet out for the whole month.
My questions for you guys are: have any of you tried this? how did it go? what are your opinions and experiences about/with different diets? I remember @manimal writing extensively about food in the past but I can’t find the thread, so if you could help out with that ti would be great, too!
Thanks a lot!
(even if you don’t have any tips for me specifically, you can view this thread as an open discussion about the 811rv diet)
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Quinoa, bellpeppers, avocado, fruits of every color of your chakras, enzyme supplements.
blend all your food for easier assimilation.
Greens, greens and more greens.
i snack on string beans with sea salt and pepper instead of chips etc.
original hummus for dips.
you can make it yourself fucking easy
thats all you need.
Get a blender, i got a magic bullet for 20$ at hardware store.
@vasco, I was on a vegan/raw food diet for a month, and I loved it. I felt more alert, had more energy and didn’t eat nearly as much as I used to. I’ve strayed from it lately, but just started a detox (I can’t find the HE article now, but there’s a great one about a 10 day detox drinking only vegetable and fruit juices which I’m currently doing) and I’m planning on going back to something along the lines of 80/10/10. I highly recommend it and wish you the best of luck!
You’re going to start shitting like 5 times a day. this will continue for a week or so.
You ‘re going to start feeling faster than everyone else, like time is slowing down. Veins will start to show in your forearms. You will start remembering things that you wouldn’t have before, like someone’s birthday, and you will look sentimental when in fact you are just superhuman.
You will start ranting to your friends and family about “enzymes” and “denatured proteins,” asking them to try a sip of your “not that bad” green smoothie or your
You will not be able to eat anything else because most foods, to put it plainly, suck. You will start to sense things, like the vitality of a tomato. Someone will remark how they grew it in the backyard and you will say, instinctively, “Did you use miracle grow?” and they will say “Yes.” and you will say “Thought so” and look like a complete dick, but hey, I’m not trying to deplete my minerals here.
These are all good signs, now get ready for the rest of your life.
P.S. Listen to these guys:
Dr. Robert Cassar
and buy some food from here:
you’ll thank me for that last one
Protein: some stuff made of amino acids, meat only has like 30% and it gets damaged when cooked
Everything pretty much contains protein, and many foods (often the best ones too) contain free amino acids, which are the dope dope. If you lift look into hemp, brown rice protein, Sunwarrior has a good pea/BRP powder with 98% bioavailability I believe.
I would also recommend getting at least one really powerful food in your diet, regardless of what it is the energy of it will help chase the cobwebs away.
If you’ve only got like ten, twenty bucks I would say go down to the sto’ and buy yourself some spirulina, chlorella, or blue green algae. Like right now. Thank me later.
And if you have any more questions concerning protein and stuff and things and suchandsuch, google Bill Pearl.
Never underestimate the local farmer’s market. Never overestimate the chain stores, even Whole Foods.
Fresh is paramount. Organic is good, biodynamic and others are better. Heirloom is beauty, but doesn’t mean the minerals are necessarily there.
Sodium bicarbonate(aluminum free) is like 3 bucks and will alkalize the shit out of you in the morning when you’re stiff or after a splurge on those damn pizza rolls.
You’re gonna get very alkaline, and experience things you may not have before, including a deeper respect for your body.
All the poop will come out, all of it.
Bon voyage, mon ami.
i’m a holistic nutritionist, and for a lot of clients, it is best to remind them to listen to their bodies. the 80-10-10 is a good method of eating, make sure the food you are consuming is balanced in nutrients, vitamins, and minerals….over consumption of one type is just as bad as under consumption! as long as you feel good, then continue on. your body will let you know what you need….there are a lot of sites that will tell you if you are craving a certain thing, it may mean a deficiency…like craving sweets could mean you are low on chromium, sulfur or phosphorus.
when you start a fast or detox, lead up to it….for a few days decrease solid foods and increase juices or soup, decrease onion and garlic, and pump up natural healers and detoxifying herbs. then do a stint of 3-5 days of liquid. you will feel amazing!
good luck! and happy eating!
Thank’s so much for the input!
@dsundre, I already own a blender and a juicer (though for the 30 days I’ll only be using the blender), but I might get a better one like Vitamix.
@generaltitsvonchodehoffen, actually, from what I’ve read, you don’t need that much protein. If everything goes well I will do the Insanity workout program in October while still keeping up the 811rv diet, so I’ll see for myself if muscle gains are possible with such a diet.
@season, So I’m assuming you eat like this? Seriously, thanks for telling me that I’ll feel good, I’m certainly hoping I will :) I’m not really concerned about the protein, because, as you said, it’s basically everywhere. I also won’t eat any spirulina or chlorella, at least during the 30 days, because food coming front he sea is not a part of the diet. I might give it a try later though.
@cocobeen, Thanks :)
Anyone else got more tips?
@vasco, Athletes/ weightlifters need ~ .7 to .9 grams of protein/ pound of body weight (according to the NSCA, who I generally trust). Let’s say you’re an average sized dude (150lbs), you need about 120 grams of protein per day. That’s 480 calories of protein. So following your diet’s ratio, that’s 4,800kcals a day from all your macro nutrients. Not saying that is out of of the question (I eat about that much, but I’m bigger than that) but just something to keep in mind.
There’s no way of getting even remotely close to an optimal diet if you’re vegan. The human body is made for eating animals and plants, it needs both. You can survive pretty well on nothing but plants, and on nothing but animals, but you will never reach actually good health levels without both.
And 80% carbs, that’s fucking insane unless you’re a long distance runner or something like that (which, in itself, is pretty damn unhealthy too.) Carbs are nothing but extra fuel. Fat is the base fuel, and it’s needed for synthesis of things your body must produce to stay healthy. Protein is what rebuilds your body, and it’s what makes you feel most full after you eat, if you don’t eat plenty of protein you’ll feel hungry very soon after eating. Getting plenty of protein and fat is KEY for rapid healing and high performance, as well as really high energy levels and hormone levels.
One of the main problems with vegetarian/vegan diets is the severely fucked up omega3:omega6 ratio. A healthy ratio is between 3:1 – 1:1, but a typical vegan is somewhere around 1:30. The results? Worse bloodflow and oxygenation, lowered HDL (“good cholesterol,” takes lipids out of the blood, and is used for healing injuries) levels, higher risk of cancer and cardiovascular disease, promotes inflammation, can lead to autoimmune diseases, lowers mental performance. Excessive omega6 is toxic, it slowly kills you, it’s credited as one of the causes people are so sick these days. Most vegetable fats are shock full of omega6 and contain very little to none omega3. Seafood and red meat are good sources of omega3, the supplements you buy in the store are not, in fact most of them are rancid or hard to absorb.
Another HUGE problem with no-meat diets is SOY! Soy is one of the most toxic “foods” out there, hands down. It’s much worse than excessive omega6, no doubt about it. It fucks up your hormone levels, promotes cancer and birth defects, inhibits mineral absorption, blocks calcium, cripples vitamin D synthesis, causes INFERTILITY and cripples sex drive, makes you weaker, promotes many kinds of infections, etc. That’s just some of the horrible things soy does to your body. And then there are all those cases of infants dying because their stupid vegan parents fed them soy milk instead of real milk. Soy is the worst “food” out there, stay clear of it. Oh, and the protein which is its main selling argument, is not a complete protein at all and doesn’t do much for your body.
Another popular source of protein for vegans are other legumes. Legumes are great food in moderate quantities, but in large quantities they’re very harmful. Why? Because all legumes contain relatively high levels of antinutrients, with excessive legume intake this shit accumulates and fucks your body up. It’s not as bad as soy, but still pretty bad.
Then there are the damn grains. HUMANS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO EAT GRAINS. Very few mammals are. Grains, just like soy, is actually foreign to the human body. It’s not supposed to be in our diet. Worst of all are the heavily processed stuff like pasta and bread. There’s no real nutrition in there. Just a metric fuckton of starch, insoluble fiber, and antinutrients such as gluten. Starch converts to sugar when digested, I shouldn’t have to explain that sugar is bad, but a lot of the starch isn’t digested and then it forms a sticky paste which is left to ferment in your stomach and intestines. That shit makes you sick, and releases lots of sulfur into your body. Insoluble fiber is just that, insoluble. Your body cannot use it, and as if that wasn’t bad enough it also causes intestinal damage. Antinutrients need no explanation, they’re just bad. Grains cause inflammation, indigestion, fermentation, poor vision, slow healing rate, and a whole bunch of other symptoms. Also, high grain intake is supposedly one of the causes of diabetes being so common these days, both due to the ridiculous amounts of starch, and due to the gluten protein which promotes several auto-immune diseases.
Fruits are great, in moderate quantities that is. Most fruits are high in sugar, and very acidic. Again, sugar needs no explanation, everyone knows the dangers of excess sugar. Not as many people know the importance of your body’s PH value. Acidity is bad, causes overheating and release sulfur, slows down healing, cripples performance of several organs, weakens your blood, dissolves certain neurotransmitters, promotes cancer, causes inflammation, increases indigestion, and does a bunch more bad stuff to your body. Gotta keep your PH value in a healthy alkaline range, or you will never be healthy. Some scientists claim cancer cannot develop in an alkaline body but I don’t know whether this is true or not.
Nuts and seeds, awesome in moderate amounts, poison in large amounts. Mostly due to the high omega6 levels, but the high UFA levels are bad to without enough SFA to balance it out.
Then there are all the damn pesticides. They’re a lot worse than most people seem to think. Especially if you live in the USA, their pesticides are really really bad, did you know they even use Agent motherfucking Orange? Just look at what that shit did to Vietnam, and it’s on your dinner plate if you eat commercial veggies.
Veganism isn’t healthy. Some will claim it is, but these people are wrong. Humans evolved eating animals, it’s key to good health, no exceptions. Most “health experts” are full of shit, they all have their agendas, profit or promotion of their values etc. but most of them don’t even have any idea what they’re talking about, or what real health really is like.
It is true that going vegan will show some improvements very fast, but that’s just because you get rid of the undigested meat traces in your body. That’s all there’s to it, it’s not the vegan diet that’s healthy, it’s getting rid of fermenting junk that does the improvement.
Meat isn’t bad, it’s fucking great, but the way most people consume it is really bad. First of all, eating meat from morbidly diseased animals is obviously bad. Then there’s the exaggerated cooking, it destroys a bunch of nutrients and almost all enzymes (which means it can’t be properly digested.) And another important factor, insufficient mastication, people don’t chew their food enough, and meat requires lots of chewing for proper digestion. Always chew your foods to a liquid.
All that talk about SFA being bad is nothing but bullshit. Humans ate lots of SFA for millions of years and there’s no sign of disease there. And then you look at the last century, SFA has been replaced more and more by “healthy” (nothing but a marketing scheme) alternatives, and at the same time the symptoms claimed to come from SFA have risen higher than ever before. SFA is pretty much the main fuel of the human body, and it’s also used for repairing injuries.
RAW eggs and RAW milk are pretty much the most complete foods you can eat. They’re the top superfoods, but vegans don’t eat these. Seriously, these two foods are so great for your health it’s almost ridiculous, and you don’t have to kill anything to eat them.
Veganism isn’t healthy, never was, never will be. The human body needs meat and other animal produce to be truly healthy. That’s a fact, anything stating the opposite is nothing but a foolish opinion or deceitful propaganda.
Peace and love, enjoy your health journey
You should definitely check out Chia . I came across it when i read “born to run”, which is about a mexican indigenous tribe who, for centuries have established a culture of “super athletes”. Apparently it has also been used by aztec runners as well as by the aztec culture in general, where it was equally a part of nutrition as maize/corn. As for the nutritional facts : “Chia is very rich in omega-3 fatty acids, even more so than flax seeds. And it has another advantage over flax: chia is so rich in antioxidants that the seeds don’t deteriorate and can be stored for long periods without becoming rancid. And, unlike flax, they do not have to be ground to make their nutrients available to the body. Chia seeds also provide fiber (25 grams give you 6.9 grams of fiber) as well as calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, manganese, copper, iron, molybdenum, niacin, and zinc.” (http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA365093/Chia-for-Health.html)
“In a one-ounce (28 g) sample, dried chia seeds contain 9% of the Daily Value for protein (4g), 13% fat (9g) (57% of which is ALA) and 42% dietary fiber (11g), based on a daily intake of 2000 calories” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_hispanica)
I ordered some of it (quite expensive in europe, but i guess it would be cheaper in the us as most of it is produced in SA) and i think its awesome. The neutral taste (it really tastes almost like nothing at all) makes it go with every kind of food or drink. I usually have a blueberry-lassi with about an ounce of it in the morning for breakfast and it keeps me going for about 6 hrs.
@manimal, I really value that you put all that effort into writing your comment and am thankful for all the information. Luckily, some of the dangers you mention don’t apply to the diet I’ll be experimenting with, but there are other points which make me somewhat concerned. So, from top to bottom, I’ll try to explain the best I can what I will be eating and why. Maybe my information is flawed, but it’s what I have so far.
I turned vegetarian by convection before I started caring a lot about my nutrition. It is true that my beliefs may change in the future, but I don’t think it’s necessary for me to eat meat again to improve my health. I’ll consider the meat-issue at a later point, but it’s not on my schedule yet.
As stated in his book, the reason Doug Graham recommends a diet of at least 80% carbs (simple carbs, that is), is because most of our cells function on simple sugars only. I’ve also noted that whenever a meal isn’t high in fruit or otherwise sweet enough, I always crave something sweet, like a dessert. This can very well be my body telling me that I didn’t have enough simple carbs. I don’t generally feel hungry for a long time after eating a lot of fruit, so either the protein in the is just enough to make me full, or it’s the sugars that do it. Isn’t 10% plenty of protein and fat? There are many diseases associated with too high a level of fat and protein in the diet.
The standard american diet usually leaves people with an omega6:omega3 ratio of 30+:1. This isn’t to say that it won’t happen in a vegan diet: it will, if you eat too many oils or the same type of nuts (pine nuts, for instance, have way more omega 6 than omega3). According to the table in Graham’s book, though, the omega3-omega6 distribution is fairly even among fruits and vegetables with none predominating. Also, the required amounts will be easily reached with a small addition of varied nuts and seeds to the diet.
In regards to soy, it used to be a big part of my diet when I first went vegetarian, but it isn’t anymore. It doesn’t even belong in the 80/10/10 program because it is not something we evolved to eat and most of its products like tofu are not whole foods.
Legumes is also something that I am eating less and less, and not at all during my 30-days following the 811rv diet, precisely because they are toxic to humans in their raw state.
Grains go without saying. I’m trying to stay as clear from grains as possible (my mother won’t believe they are toxic, so she sometimes insist I eat bread and the like), and won’t eat them at all during the trial, again because they can’t be eaten raw.
Supposedly, you can eat as much fruit as you crave as long as you don’t have excess fat in your blood preventing the sugar from exiting your bloodstream, as the fiber in the fruit will slow the sugar digesting a bit thus providing a slow rise of the sugar levels. Also, when you have enough fuel in your body, you won’t crave fruit anymore. According to this table (http://www.angelfire.com/az/sthurston/acid_alkaline_foods_list.html/ scroll down for table), the 811rv diet is very alkalizing, posing no real danger in terms of blood PH.
Overconsumption of nuts and seeds will not be problem, either, because they are too high in fat to meet the standards of the diet.
I live in Portugal, and I doubt that our veggies come from the US. Still, I am going to buy more food at street markets and try to get it organic. This is all new to me, so I haven’t had time to find the place where organic produce is sold in my city etc, but I will do so when I get back to Lisbon (I’m in Germany now and will then head to the beach, so that will be at the end of August).
Again, I still have to dig deeper into the whole animal products topic. For now I believe that vegan will be best than the alternative, which is commercially bought animal products from who knows where that underwent who knows which treatments. Later I might find organic egg and raw milk sellers, but I won’t worry about it just yet.
How do you suggest meat be eaten? I’m not sure I’d know how to cook it just right and all that…
First of all, let me make sure I understand: SFA = saturated fatty acids and UFA = unsaturated fatty acids, right? I’ll continue under that assumption. I’ve read that we should get 20% saturated fats and 80% polyunsaturated fats. The book also states that most meat’s ratio is 80/20, exactly the opposite. I’m also wondering what you mean by fat being the main fuel for the body. I’ve read that when there aren’t enough carbs in the diet, the body will turn fat into simple sugars, creating toxic by-products in the process. The book “The 80/10/10 Diet” contains a detailed chapter about fats and firmly states that more than 20% of calories from fat is plain unhealthy and that the adequate amount lies below 10%.
With this diet I hope to reach a new understanding of what health is and experience a big improvement. Of course after a while I will start reading more into nutrition and tweaking the diet according to how my body responds to the changes.
P.S.: Where does ‘Elion’ come from??
Shit, I read that wrong.
Manimal is right on everything right there. I’m NOT a vegan, and I love raw milk and eggs.
80% carbs is bollocks in most cases, unless you’re an athlete. There are not just “carbs,” there’s a huge difference between a banana and spaghetti.
Also watch out for bullshit fruit. Almost all fruit is hybridized, which means it benefits the person selling it to you, but not you. We were made to eat fruits but these varieties will spike your blood sugar.
Get good meat. My buddy has a grassfed buffalo farm and it’s far removed from conventional meat.
What I’ve found is it’s more important to maximize QUALITY of your food rather than what foods. Do that and eat what you feel and you’ll be set.
@vasco, First of all, sweet cravings are most likely due to being used to a high sugar diet. Sugar has addictive properties.
10% isn’t plenty of fat or protein. But fuck the percentages, that shit doesn’t really mean anything, it’s all about amount. And there is NO RIGHT PERCENTAGE WHATSOEVER, since every lifestyle requires its own levels of various nutrients. And those simple sugars needed for fuel, your body can synthesize them from other carbs.
Sure, there’s a lot of associations of disease with high fat intake, but these aren’t scientifically clean studies. There could be a hundred different factors leading to that result. Not to mention, that a lot of those studies were sponsored by people with marketing agendas. High protein levels are only harmful if the proteins are bad or if you don’t have enough fat and carbs to balance it out.
Excess fat in the bloodstream preventing the sugar from exiting. That’s funny. It’s not excess fat, it’s normal healthy levels of fat. Sugar is meant to be used up, it’s the extra fuel the body needs for major energy output, which is of course a cornerstone of a healthy lifestyle. Sugar isn’t meant to be kept in the body, it’s to be used up. Same goes for slow carbs and most fat, but fat is also an important building block for your body. Fat is much more needed than carbs.
Yes, SFA means saturated fat. No, the 80/20 ratio is the more healthy one, 20/80 is not. Humans have been primarily hunters since the start and our bodies are still the same, meat has always been the primary food for humans. Ruminant meat typically has that 80/20 ratio, which is what our bodies are optimized for consuming, which we have evolved for millions of years to eat. All archaeological findings support that humans were always primarily hunters, and even a quick look at our biology supports the notion. The human body is superb for hunting. In many climates there’s nothing for humans to eat but animals, and people survive there just fine. But, y’know even if meat has too much SFA compared to UFA, that’s still balanced out by other things you eat, not to mention that different types of meat have different ratios.
Humans have been eating lots of SFA for millions of years, and only recently when people replaced it with “healthier alternatives” have we seen so much sickness. When people replaced good old butter with nasty margarine, people suddenly fell ill, and somehow the “experts” blame this on “too much SFA” despite SFA intake being lower than ever, and even more hilarious is the fact that people are silly enough to believe in those stupid claims. Saturated fat is what humans adapted to eating, it’s what we specialize in eating, it’s what gives us the most power, it’s crucial for real health.
You gotta realize that all these weird books on dieting are nothing but marketing schemes. Proper nutrition is very simple, it’s the same as it’s always been, humans eating what they’re made for eating. For millions of years people were smart enough to eat the right stuff, but for a few millennia now people have been getting more and more retarded when it comes to eating. The last 100 years have by far been the worst though. If meat wasn’t great food for humans, then humans wouldn’t have eaten it for millions of years, that’s self-explanatory. The facts are obvious, but people ignore them.
Fat is the food of foods. Carbs are nothing but boost fuel. Protein is needed for rebuilding your body and keeping your genetic material intact, technically you are nothing but proteins.
I’m super healthy, and so are the people I’ve mentored on their health journey, and we all eat lots of SFA and not much carbs. I never exceed 120g and I workout a whole fucking lot, someone who doesn’t work out a lot shouldn’t exceed 90g. That’s a healthy carb intake, anything above that is just begging for a shorter life full of physical malfunctions and a bogged down mind.
You still have the same body that your caveman ancestors had. They weren’t vegan, they were hunters. They knew their shit, they gave their bodies what they needed, your body is just the same and needs the same stuff.
As for Elion, it’s my middle name, I prefer it over my first name. It’s of ancient Hebrew origin and means “God most high.” I come from Sweden though.
@manimal, I want to understand what you’re telling me better. Can you give me some sources relating to what you said?
Now I’m getting a little hesitant about going 811rv. I suppose after a month I could experiment with higher fat and protein and note how I feel. Would that be a good way to go at it? I’m also willing to reintroduce dairy and eggs (and maybe meat) into my diet after September if I see benefits to doing it.
By the way, do you guys know of any books that might complement my knowledge?
Right now I’ve read “The 80/10/10 Diet” by Doug Graham, “Grain Damage” also by Graham am reading “The Live Food Factor”, “Go Fruit Yourself” and “The Sunfood Diet Success System” by David Wolfe.
Oh and @manimal, please don’t forget to give me the sources relevant to your information so I can look it up and understand better. Thanks :)
Trust your intuition. Some need more amino acids, aka things like nuts, avocados, oils, etc. Others thrive on sugars from fruits. Greens are pretty much a universal good. A liquid B supplement can really help you through the transition if you’re feeling low energy. Research B-12 in plants.