I have written about this topic before, but I feel its time to create a post solely focused on it.
First off, there’s no such thing as god, its an impossibility, mostly becuase something cannot have unlimited power. Could god make a rock that was so heavy he himself couldn’t pick it up? No, thats a paradox. If you ever ask somebody this question, they will almost always answer “Why would he want to do that”, which is known as a cop out. But I’m going to get off the topic of god, it’s almost impossible to convert somebody to atheism, which is simply becuase the only way one can become atheist is through self decision, it takes inner thought to disbelieve a lifetime of being pressured to believe in a god.
When a Christian talks to an atheist, the Christian believes that the atheist really does believe in god deep down, and the atheist believes that deep down the Christian really does know there is no such thing as god. This is becuase it’s impossible to put ourselves in the shoes of another person, mostly becuase we’re all so fucking different. If our boss is being an asshole we think that there is no other reason for his behavior than him being an asshole, when really he could have a real problem. His marriage may be failing, his kid might be dangerously sick, or he himself may have a terminal illness. But we never take these things into account. Someone might be a Christian becuase they experienced a “miracle”, maybe they or a loved one got into a huge car crash, and came out unscathed, they see it as a miracle, an atheist sees it as luck.
Lets move onto the afterlife. Now, this may be old news to some people, but there is a chemical in your brain called DMT, it is released at three points in your life a large amount when you are born, a moderately large amount when you sleep, and an incredibly massive amount when you die. A common misconception is that it causes dreams, it does not, in fact, in large amounts, you will not be able to remember any of the trip, at all. Now, a DMT is pretty hard to explain to someone who has never used it before, Joe Rogan did a pretty good job as explaining it as “Flying through a universe of four dimensional shapes made of love.” 10 mgs of the drug can make the fifteen minuets of tripping seem like hours. Now imagine 21 grams. That’s right, grams. An insane amount. That many drugs could make the moment of death seem to stretch on for eternity. The afterlife. Could this be the heaven, or hell, people talk about when they have near death experiences? Could this be the overhead view people get? Could DMT be god?
If you spend your whole entire life devoted to god, going to church, you will defiantly see this as heaven, what else could it be? But nothing could last forever, at the end of your trip, your body will be dead, but… Your brain would still be alive. Think of everything your brain has to regulate, all the signals it has to constantly send, it’s insane. But, for those seven minuets between body and brain death, something interesting will happen. All your brain power will be dedicated to thinking, 100%. You will become a genius for those 7 minuets, more than a genius, a level of brain power untouched by the living, a new level, nirvana.
Then death. No god, no heaven, no hell, no pleasure, no pain. We shouldn’t be afraid of death, it’s going to happen to each of us, it could happen at any time. People have spontaneously combusted, been instantly blown up, or been hit by a car going so fast that the death was instantaneous. But they didn’t mind, they were dead. Think about it, you fear prison, everyone does, you fear it becuase it’s a pretty horrible place to be, Christians fear hell becuase an eternity of torture is no fun. But why do we fear death? Once it happens, we’re done, gone. What does death feel like? It feels like the time before we were born. Nothing. Nothing whatsoever. Not blackness, not like floating in a void. Just nothing. It’s not painful, you’re just not living. It’s kind of scary, but life is long, it’s the longest thing you’ll ever do, and 5 billion years of evolution have prepared you for that moment, it’s a scary concept right now, but most people who are on their deathbed have an acceptance before they die, this is becuase your brain knows that you need to die, you only fight situations becuase your brain deems them a danger to your life, if your friend wants you to jump off a sky scraper for his music video, you’d say no, becuase your brain has calculated that this action would result in death, but there is no action that can be taken to avoid death, so your brain’s natural state towards it at the end is acceptance.
Sure there are people who are afraid of death at the end, there’s an exception to every human condition, but for the majority, don’t be afraid of death, it’s a natural part of life.
I do not say this because I believe in an afterlife, nor do I believe in God, but there is no evidence of DMT actually being released at the time of death. It’s a theory, and a pretty good one at that, but it has not been proven. Perhaps a new study came out recently that I’m unaware of, but as far as I know there still isn’t evidence of a DMT release at the time of death. By no means am I attacking your point of view; we are all entitled to our own opinion but I’m just letting you know that what you claim concerning DMT has not been proven.
@shivvy, Correct. It has not been proven but people love to spout off theories and say it’s fact, especially about DMT for some reason. It has never been proven that DMT is produced in the pineal at all. Not to say it’s not an amazing compound that is widely available in nature and has some fucking profound effects but NONE of the theories have been proven. It is frustrating to hear over and over again. Don’t get me wrong, I am a huge advocate of DMT, psilocybin and the positive effects that they can have. Hell, I don’t even find it that hard to believe that the stoned ape theory could have some merit but once again, just theories.
As far as God and the afterlife.i’m agnostic and I’m comfortable with not knowing but I always find it funny how atheists always bitch about organized religion and call christians, or people who believe in god “stupid or irrational”. Ironic that they are just as zealous and stubborn as the christians they despise so much.
Nothing personal towards the poster but this is my experience and observation.
@cadeus333, Your view resonates a lot with mine. I don’t claim to know what happens when we die because no one, no matter what they say, knows or can even pretend to know what happens. Is DMT one hell of a chemical? Fuck yes. Does it make you see trippy shit? Hell yes. But we can’t just assume that DMT is the cause of Near-Death experiences simply because we would like that to be the case due to the fact that it would fit in to the materialist paradigm. Think about it, why on earth would our body release this stuff right before dying? It makes no sense whatsoever. On top of that, like you said, we haven’t proven that DMT is produced in the pineal gland. Strassman brought this idea to life with his research but it was just a theory that was never proven.
@shivvy, I have a feeling if it hasn’t been proven that it is produced in the pineal yet, it never will be. I don’t see how it could be that hard to prove. It just frustrates me when I hear people tell other uninformed people that it is a fact, it’s so misleading and really gives the psychedelic community a bad wrap. I am actually guilty of it myself, I took someones word as fact and repeated it to other people. After doing my own research I felt like an ass because I had to go back to people and be like “oh, you know that really profound, life changing information I gave you? yeah, turns out i’m an idiot. Sorry”. Joe Rogan should really be ashamed of himself because he is one of the biggest DMT advocates out there and he spews it as fact, when i’m sure he knows better.
@thomaschong For the most part, you’re spot on. But when I interpreted your description of death process, I lost you. You’re saying at the moment of death, one will experience a brief but powerful trip from the DMT released, and then after 7 minutes, boom. Permanent non-existence. How do you know this for sure? You say things like “impossible”, but if you actually think about it, statistically, life itself should be “impossible”, yet it happens. On a purely physical level, yes there seems to be an order that our physical bodies are governed by.That cannot be denied. But there is also a metaphysical dimension of energy that humans have a relationship with but is not yet fully understood. And when you contemplate the complexity and mystery of the human mind, all laws go out the window. The human mind and the things it can do are LIMITLESS. Think about it. Would the concept of an iphone seem impossible to someone in the 18th century? Of course. Their notion of what was possible was limited by what they knew then of the nature of reality. Same notion can be applied to our day and age. Who’s to say in the near future there won’t be a scientific process that enables us travel into other dimensions? To claim that something metaphysical (like the notion of God) is impossible is to be ignorant of your own inner power. The current state of our species is in this state of limited perception. But there are ways to expand this perceptual limitation. How do you explain enlightened beings who have transcended this realm entirely? Your personal experience (or lack of) with God/spirit/source (whatever you wanna call it) can not account for the entirety of the human experience. No one knows for sure what comes after death. People have had glimpses like you said, but it is just as likely that they transcend to another dimension than it is for so called non-existence to occur.
@cadeus333, You bring up a good point there; we’ve pretty much been able to identify where every chemical is produced in the human brain. Why the hell is it so hard to prove where DMT comes from? I don’t know. You seem to be much more knowledgeable about DMT than I, do you know of any studies that show the link between DMT and dreaming? I’ve never found one of those and I’d like to read one.
@shivvy, No, there is no link between dreaming and DMT that I have found. In fact, I think the only person who i’ve even heard make that connection is Joe Rogan and possibly Terence McKenna. Which is not suprising, all Rogan does is regurgitate shit that McKenna said 20 years ago. He is not the intellectual that many people think he is. At least Mckenna was an actual scholar and always made a point to say “this is just my theory”.
I cannot think of one reason why DMT in the Pineal couldn’t be proven if it was true. I’m no expert but I’ve done my homework and as of right now ALL of it is theory. Not taking anything away from it, my DMT experience was literally life changing and I’m glad I tried it. SO much so that I feel no need to do it again, I think it would only tarnish my original experience. Same goes for most psychedelics. Like Alan Watts said “once you get the message, hang up the phone”. Although that is not entirely true for me, I do eat mushrooms about once or twice a year and I always find it to be a really cleansing experience when done that way.
@cadeus333, Rogan has his pros and cons. He reads a ton of stuff and then tries to convey it to his listeners in order to get them to think more freely. The only thing that irks me about the guy is his false DMT facts that he throws out there. Come on Joe, you know that’s not true, you’ve read The Spirit Molecule and yet you still act as though the whole pineal thing is true. Pull your shit together :p His podcast is really good though, he has some interesting people on there. For instance, Les Stroud (Survivorman) is on tomorrow, I’m so amped :D
@shivvy, I am probably being a little harsh on ol Joe, I have listened to his podcasts and they are usually pretty good but the DMT thing really gets under my skin. He seems to have a habit of repeating other peoples ideas and theories and passing them off as his own. I know he’s not writing a paper and doesn’t need citations for everything that comes out of his mouth but that irks me a bit also. The guy is pretty funny though, I am a fan of his stand up. At least the one on netflix, seeing as it’s the only one i’ve seen lol.
@toniolo, You made so many good points that I don’t think I have time to cover them lol. I find it so funny how people say “that’s impossible”. Really? Are you sure? We thought a lot of things were impossible 100 years ago and yet, today we know that these things are possible. Who’s to say that 100 years from now we won’t look equally as ignorant? I am sure this will be the case, especially with the ever increasing speed of technology.
The other thing is, when talking about god the poster is speaking from human perspective of reality and a human perspective of the nature of god. “Could god make a rock so heavy that he himself couldn’t pick it up?” a paradox indeed but only because we think in human terms. Again, I am agnostic but I find it rather arrogant to think that such rules and perceptions have anything to do with “god”, “the creator” whatever. I’m pretty sure if there is a god, him explaining himself to us would be like me trying to explain algebra to a fucking beetle.
Either way, I may be a bit out of the loop but I think the jury is still out on this one…
@cadeus333, It’s impossible to be all powerful, the list of things that are impossible in this universe is infinite, you can’t make something totally dark and bright at the same time, you can’t make something colder than 0 Kelvin, but if there was an all powerful being, he should be able to do these things. Think of all the things we though WERE possible 100 years ago, we thought Venus would be habitual, but its not, and its not going to be habitable anywhere in the future, we won’t find new information that shows it is habitable, we already know it’s 900 degrees.
@thomaschong, If the evidence is so strong, why has there been no formal study? I can’t imagine that it would be very expensive or take too long. The spirit molecule has been out for over 10 years I believe, and If the evidence was so strong I would imagine that Strassman would have jumped at the chance to go down in history for proving his theory or hypothesis correct. Theories are proven wrong every day Einstein’s static universe “theory” for example. I just find it hard to believe such a popular subject would go so long without a formal study.
@thomaschong, By all means show me the strong evidence sir. I’m not here calling you a heretic or anything, it’s just that I’ve researched it quite a bit a the evidence is weak at best. Plus, like@cadeus333 is saying, if the evidence were so strong a study would most likely have been done already. So, if you have any sources demonstrating this strong evidence I’d be more than happy to read them,
@thomaschong,I see what you are saying, but we are using human measurements. Do you see where I am going with this? lol. I know this is circular logic, but to think that we could comprehend the thought process or motivations of this divine being is a little arrogant. I don’t know and I will probably never know, which is fine by me but I’m not a point where I feel as if I can completely rule out the possibility.
The study could be done anywhere in the world where it is not illegal, that reasoning is preposterous. All it would take is a human pineal gland and the right equipment. If his theory was correct these would still be a testable amount of residual DMT in the pineal. Simple as that. As far as funding, pshhh, the guy is loaded. He could fund it himself, be proven either right or wrong and still live a more than comfortable life until the day he died from the his book sales alone.