The Afterlife and God
I have written about this topic before, but I feel its time to create a post solely focused on it.
First off, there’s no such thing as god, its an impossibility, mostly becuase something cannot have unlimited power. Could god make a rock that was so heavy he himself couldn’t pick it up? No, thats a paradox. If you ever ask somebody this question, they will almost always answer “Why would he want to do that”, which is known as a cop out. But I’m going to get off the topic of god, it’s almost impossible to convert somebody to atheism, which is simply becuase the only way one can become atheist is through self decision, it takes inner thought to disbelieve a lifetime of being pressured to believe in a god.
When a Christian talks to an atheist, the Christian believes that the atheist really does believe in god deep down, and the atheist believes that deep down the Christian really does know there is no such thing as god. This is becuase it’s impossible to put ourselves in the shoes of another person, mostly becuase we’re all so fucking different. If our boss is being an asshole we think that there is no other reason for his behavior than him being an asshole, when really he could have a real problem. His marriage may be failing, his kid might be dangerously sick, or he himself may have a terminal illness. But we never take these things into account. Someone might be a Christian becuase they experienced a “miracle”, maybe they or a loved one got into a huge car crash, and came out unscathed, they see it as a miracle, an atheist sees it as luck.
Lets move onto the afterlife. Now, this may be old news to some people, but there is a chemical in your brain called DMT, it is released at three points in your life a large amount when you are born, a moderately large amount when you sleep, and an incredibly massive amount when you die. A common misconception is that it causes dreams, it does not, in fact, in large amounts, you will not be able to remember any of the trip, at all. Now, a DMT is pretty hard to explain to someone who has never used it before, Joe Rogan did a pretty good job as explaining it as “Flying through a universe of four dimensional shapes made of love.” 10 mgs of the drug can make the fifteen minuets of tripping seem like hours. Now imagine 21 grams. That’s right, grams. An insane amount. That many drugs could make the moment of death seem to stretch on for eternity. The afterlife. Could this be the heaven, or hell, people talk about when they have near death experiences? Could this be the overhead view people get? Could DMT be god?
If you spend your whole entire life devoted to god, going to church, you will defiantly see this as heaven, what else could it be? But nothing could last forever, at the end of your trip, your body will be dead, but… Your brain would still be alive. Think of everything your brain has to regulate, all the signals it has to constantly send, it’s insane. But, for those seven minuets between body and brain death, something interesting will happen. All your brain power will be dedicated to thinking, 100%. You will become a genius for those 7 minuets, more than a genius, a level of brain power untouched by the living, a new level, nirvana.
Then death. No god, no heaven, no hell, no pleasure, no pain. We shouldn’t be afraid of death, it’s going to happen to each of us, it could happen at any time. People have spontaneously combusted, been instantly blown up, or been hit by a car going so fast that the death was instantaneous. But they didn’t mind, they were dead. Think about it, you fear prison, everyone does, you fear it becuase it’s a pretty horrible place to be, Christians fear hell becuase an eternity of torture is no fun. But why do we fear death? Once it happens, we’re done, gone. What does death feel like? It feels like the time before we were born. Nothing. Nothing whatsoever. Not blackness, not like floating in a void. Just nothing. It’s not painful, you’re just not living. It’s kind of scary, but life is long, it’s the longest thing you’ll ever do, and 5 billion years of evolution have prepared you for that moment, it’s a scary concept right now, but most people who are on their deathbed have an acceptance before they die, this is becuase your brain knows that you need to die, you only fight situations becuase your brain deems them a danger to your life, if your friend wants you to jump off a sky scraper for his music video, you’d say no, becuase your brain has calculated that this action would result in death, but there is no action that can be taken to avoid death, so your brain’s natural state towards it at the end is acceptance.
Sure there are people who are afraid of death at the end, there’s an exception to every human condition, but for the majority, don’t be afraid of death, it’s a natural part of life.
@thomaschong, I’ll have to sleep on this one. Not sold yet but I’ve enjoyed the conversation and maybe tomorrow we’ll have some other perspectives thrown in the mix. Have a good night/day wherever you may be.
Yeah the articles are nothing new, oh hey we found dmt but we don’t know where it came from. But nonetheless, I think we’ve reached the point now where no new arguments will come from either side so Sir Chong I thank you for the articles, I enjoyed reading them :) Good night boys.
@shivvy, @cadeus333, Do you guys have any idea how challenging it is acquire the evidence that you’re requiring? At least ponder this hypothesis with as much respect as you give other explanations of the metaphysical. No one completely understands the process and there’s not necessarily a way to prove the outcome. Sure you may have had 1 experience with DMT? but you don’t seem experienced enough to know how complex and elusive it can really get.
“I’m pretty sure if there is a god, him explaining himself to us would be like me trying to explain algebra to a fucking beetle.” No shit man, now remove the ‘him’ and ‘himself’ and just call it G-force if that makes it easier to imagine G-force being the cause to this effect we call life. We identify life with sensory stimulation that creates a memory that we can build upon with experience. Anything we can sense is real and encompassed by the G-force that created it; omnipresent.
My hypothesis is very similar to Chong’s because the similarities between a DMT trip, lucid dream and near-death experience are all undeniably similar. You don’t need the print-out from a piece of lab equipment to identify what you are seeing. It’s a state of remote clarity, an ethereal mind-scape void of physical sensation. And it’s pure, not polar or judgemental; no thing is separate or a mistake, One harmony.
A DMT trip can be very subjective, I’ve had dozens of trips and am still careful to admit anything consistent about it other than it’s ability to awaken your spirit. In comparison, even my most lucid dreams are difficult to direct or hold onto a memory of the experience. It’s that moment of lucidity when you realize “woah, this dream isn’t actually happening, but is all still being experienced”. When you do a DMT trip correctly, you push yourself out of lucidity into a dream-scape. (You guys definitely have not had this full effect, or you wouldn’t be asking for evidence of a link between DMT, dreaming and the pineal.) It is chaotically confusing, a bombardment of hallucinations that you’re an uncontrollable observer of, like a dream. Then before you know it, you’re coming back to consciousness and any memory of the experience begins to fade from you. But you’re left buzzing with this energy and feeling of “Wow! i was physically here the whole time, but that was all happening in there; ‘there’ felt so familiar!”
Now I’ve never had a near-death experience, but from what I’ve heard 1st-hand from people’s stories and from what I’ve read, their effect is eerily similar. When revived to consciousness they describe something that they concretely experienced but cannot vaguely remember. Usually it’s a very subjective projection of their own mind, sometimes their entire life flashing before their eyes; but the feeling of having been brought back from some place else and having felt spiritual comfort there is almost always the same. I don’t completely understand how these are all linked, and I would also throw deep meditation and hypnosis into the evaluation. These practices are difficult to understand because while tapping into this universal and underlying awareness, it’s difficult to retain any memory of it in normal consciousness.
I think that feeling of being someplace else when dreaming, tripping, and other techniques are ways to perceive the afterlife that religions like christianity have tried to label with heaven or hell. G-force is bigger than that, and any human-being’s description of the event being good, bad, scary or otherwise isn’t appropriate. To get back to your quote “I’m pretty sure if there is a god, him explaining himself to us would be like me trying to explain algebra to a fucking beetle.” is exactly right! But we’re a little better than a beetle, we can connect the dots and hypothesize that these incredible moments that have no time or space could be ‘it’.
There’s so much more that could be said about this, but there’s no proof like direct experience, and that can’t be credited with words. Not on this subject.
@thomaschong, God cannot exist as a concept, not one or all combined can do it justice, but that is the only tool at our disposal. Imagine the universe before the first concept, this is a contradiction itself because I am asking you to apply a conceptualization of a state lacking concept, and there you find God. Because scientifically the universe is based on paradox, but that is only true with the application of…concept. Tadah.
@versai, I agree with just about everything you said and I never once said that it was not possible. In fact I think it is more likely than not that Strassman’s theory could be correct, my experience with DMT was an almost textbook case of a near death experience. The conversation about it started because He stated DMT in the pineal as fact, when it is not. That was my only point. Trust me, I know how fleeting the experience is and how fast DMT is broken down by the body and I did not take the latter into consideration when I mentioned testing. Chong brought up a great point there. I am very experienced with psychedillics, I’ve done most of them in high doses but none of them come even close to DMT, it’s a different animal completely. The only thing that comes close is a high dose of mushrooms, five grams or more. Which makes sense because they a so chemically similar. Psilocybin is only a few molecules away from DMT.
As far as God, again, I don’t claim to have any idea but I am open to the idea. I sure as hell don’t think it’s some sky daddy watching over us every second of our lives. I would think of it more as a universal consciousness simulating an infinite number of physical existences, if this were the case that means that we are in fact god. I like that idea, it makes sense to me, a lot more so than other descriptions of god. Like I said, I don’t know and I’m cool with that. Maybe one day I’ll have a solid stance on it but if there is a god i’m sure he/it would not condemn me for questioning it’s existence.
I just have to say, I am pretty new here and I love this site. There are so many great conversations to be had with intelligent people. I learn a lot from listening to other people’s points of view and I think it is important to stay open to everything because in the end most of these discussions are opinions and I enjoy them all. Let’s all just remember that as much as we think we know about reality and the universe/multiverse, we don’t know shit.
Actually, christians do believe that god could make a rock for himself that he could not be able to lift (atleast for sometime).
There were rocks in jesus his lifetime that he wouldn’t be able to lift, that was part of that plan.
He had to fully turn human and be spat out by the entire human race and had to reside in hell to forgive the sins that every human had made in the past and would make in the future.
So yes, christians believe that god can make a rock for himself that he could not lift because they believe he can make himself as weak as a human.
ps: sorry if my english grammar is bad, i’m not a genius in written language.
@thomaschong, I personally believe in an afterlife. There are records of people who have been blind since birth, and have died, then revived and gave in depth descriptions of the doctors, nurses, and room they were in. One record stands out in my mind, a gentleman went into the ER unconscious, and died. The ER doctor had this thing he did where he pointed at tools with his elbows as to not contaminate his gloves. When the dead man was revived and recovered he asked the doctor why he was pointing around with his elbows and the doctor was in awe. Now I know this second one could have a few plausible explanations, but what about all the blind NDE’s? That is quite interesting and convincing to me. Just wanted to know your opinion.
There’s a lot of this on the web, seems to be a few books on it as well.
I believe in the Ressurection and God but I also believe that is irrelevant. I think you cease to exist as far as perception of everything, including time.
I figure we can introspect and develop widom and understanding by insight and we can find the discipline for motivation to apply action in the spirit of that wisdom. Then we can stop supporting people who behave irresponsibly such as standing for nothing but what they can take.
We can just do our best at trying not to harm others, if only because we can benefit ourselves if people do not hate us and try to make our lives difficult because of some inconsiderate behaviour we performed.
The concept of God exists in our imagination. That being said, God is not the concept of God. My friend can go to a party and tell me that it was awesome, and I can imagine what the party was like and be 100% wrong about it, but it wouldn’t mean that my friend didn’t go to a party, or that the person who organized the party doesn’t exist.
Those aren’t peer reviewed, but I did find one peer reviewed study on the whole aspect of blind people who can see during a NDE relating to , so your evidence remains the same. I have had an OBE before, and although I did see the room, it could have been constructed from memory easily. The main problem I have with the blind NDE is color, just becuase she’s seeing color doesn’t mean she knows which color is which, how would she know what gold or orange on her wedding band was if she had never seen the colors before? You can’t explain color to a blind person, so how did she know being born blind?
@thomaschong, I’ve had a slight OBE once before as well, but it was mostly sensation. Feeling of being in two places at once, and no sense of breath. Well, I feel if it truly was her soul leaving her body, maybe she could recognize the colors through some acts of divinity. Or she knew previously because someone told her. Who knows! We’ll find out some day :]
@iambrian, I think that “Divine knowledge allowed her to magically recognize colors for no apparent reason other than to prove to a scientist who would interview her in the future that there is life after death” is a worse excuse than “It’s total bullshit”
@thomaschong, I mean, I wouldn’t call it bullshit for I am not her, and did not experience it myself. We do not know what divine is or does,it’s unknown, hell, it might not even exist. But if it does, who knows, it might provide an explanation. Just a theory man.
I know this is an old thread and I don’t know for sure how I ended up here but I just joined so I can reply. This is an interesting discussion and I didn’t read everyone’s comments so forgive me if I repeat what has already been said. My take on this is this.. With the constant discoveries we make as humans, metaphysics is always turning science on its head. Our beliefs change and we grow all the time. We just recently discovered a new element that we can’t see and didn’t even know how to measure to prove its existence, which someone a couple hundred years ago hypothesized existed (if I need to I’ll try to find it). So who’s to say that when we die, something that can’t be seen doesn’t get released into the universe? Maybe this process is initiated when the pineal gland releases its stuff, just to help the process. The Rosicrucians have writings that talk about how we came to be, and we were part of this “other universe”, another plane of existence, but some higher ups found a way to get our souls to inhabit these bodies. There is so much history, knowledge, wisdom, whatever that we have lost through the millennia, now we may have technology but we’re still a bunch of dummies compared to what we used to know. I don’t adhere to any specific religion since I think organized religion breeds fanatics, sure they have done some good through the years and it’s a good guide for how to live and be good people, but nobody should force their ideas, we can chat and talk about them but God lies within and its up to each of us to find our own truth. I also think most of the recent conflicts are due more to cultural traditions and differences. Anyway, I think pineal gland just helps the transition to wherever it is we transition too. Although sometimes I wonder how to reconcile the whole memory problem. Our memories have to be tied physically to our brain, our brain dies and our memories would be gone, so not sure how that fits into afterlife and seeing family members or our pets or details specific to our own personal experiences in life that we’ve learned from. Ok I’m done blathering. I’ve had a long day and this noisy train ride isn’t condusive to deep thoughts.
peace be with you all.