The now

1 year, 9 months ago

If the universe is infinite.

Does that not imply, that in every moment, infinity must be expressed?

If infinity has no end, can it be ever expressed?

Would that not also imply, that since infinity cannot be expressed, we are still in the first moment that ever happened?

And that all of time and space is being expressed simultaneously?

Which means the past present and future are a constant?

Which means freewill is an illusion?

Things to think about.

July 16, 2013 at 3:20 pm

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Profile photo of  Anonymous (@) 1 year, 9 months ago ago

@Plidan, “If the universe is infinite.

Does that not imply, that in every moment, infinity must be expressed?”

This is not implied. It is implied if the universe is not quantized – if time is not quantized, then yes, every moment infinity would need to be expressed.

You may or may not realize that there are different ‘sizes’ of infinity;

For instance;

f(x)=3x/x, as x goes to infinity, the function goes to 3. This implies that 3*infinity is equal to infinity.

f(x)=3x^2/x, as x goes to infinity, the function goes to infinity, this implies that infinity squared is actually a larger ‘variety’ or ‘type’ of infinity.

Also, you can have an infinite amount of infinities within infinity, thus making the idea that ALL of infinity happening simultaneously is not necessarily the case.

Also
“And that all of time and space is being expressed simultaneously?”
Expressed… or experienced?

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Profile photo of Plidan Plidan (@Plidan) 1 year, 9 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist,

You took me out of context.

I am talking about the total infinity, the infinity of infinity.

I know what cantor said lol.

Expressed, not experienced.

Basically, for one moment to happen from the perspective of the infinity of infinity, all possible infinitives must be expressed and happen before the next moment can pass.

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Profile photo of Dom Dom (@dotcom) 1 year, 9 months ago ago

@Plidan, @ijesuschrist, i think what Mr. Plidan is touching on is something i was thinking about the other day. Time expressed eternally. As in every moment in time is still occurring but can only be seen from a certain perspective in space. And yes if that is the case free will does not exist because future events are occurring just not under our observation. A linear version of time lends to free will because it states that future events have not occurred and are up to our manipulation/will. But if all moments of the universe, past present future, are at this moment in time occurring but imperceptibly and from only a particular vantage point, then our imposition of will has no effect; the future is set in stone.

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Profile photo of Nick Nick (@splashartist) 1 year, 9 months ago ago

@Plidan, the now is all there is and all there’s ever been. You’ve never not been now. Everything else is an image occurring in your mind in this moment, future and past do not exist besides an image occurring in the now. The now is everything. So the infinite is being expressed fully in what you are experiencing. The awareness is always the same in any given moment, the awareness is the infinite. It’s only the images that awareness expresses itself through that change but it is all made up of the same stuff (also awareness or consciousness whatever you wish to call it).
This can be seen completely clear if one has a spiritual awakening. It becomes the experience and not a conceptual understanding.
Cheers :)

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Profile photo of emptyminded emptyminded (@thoughtless) 1 year, 9 months ago ago

@Plidan, this moment of now is very tricky and ive been pondering about some questions too.

Does that not imply, that in every moment, infinity must be expressed?

yes- thats why i believe ‘perspectives’ was created

If infinity has no end, can it be ever expressed?

yes- the moment of ‘now’… this continues to flow for eternity

Would that not also imply, that since infinity cannot be expressed, we are still in the first moment that ever happened?

And that all of time and space is being expressed simultaneously?

Which means the past present and future are a constant?

i dont really agree with this

Which means freewill is an illusion?

the records of infinity is already written, and is being written at the same time much like the wave-particle phenomenon… from the perspective of the infinity its already there but from the perspective of subjective creatures experiencing their existence its not. to us, its as if we are momentarily experiencing each passing moment as if it was happening for the first time. so yes free will is an illusion much like this reality we are living in, from the perspective of the infinity (which would have to be absolute nothingness). but to us its very much real and so is this reality we live in, giving us full control of the now. (making it not an illusion)…

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Profile photo of  Anonymous (@) 1 year, 9 months ago ago

@Plidan, “The infinity of infinity”

I don’t think we know what ‘size’ infinity the infinity of time is, from all we should conclude, it is a linear infinity, and thus an infinitely small infinity.

And again, only if time were not quantized would an infinite number of moments need to pass in any given moment. If, however, time is quantized, 5.39×10-44 seconds pass within a second, which is not infinity.
That number is a planck time, the proposed smallest quantization of time.

“expressed”
To what? Take away consciousness and there is nothing to express TO.

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Profile photo of Plidan Plidan (@Plidan) 1 year, 9 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist,

It doesn’t need a size.

You have done nothing here but take me out of context, I am not talking about how many planck frames happen every second, nor am I talking about assuming the universe is quantized.

Stop making assumptions and taking me out of context
I am talking about from the perspective of ALL infinitesimal combined

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Profile photo of  Anonymous (@) 1 year, 9 months ago ago

@Plidan, If you have an infinite number of billiard balls, and you’re counting from 1 to 2, you don’t count an infinite amount inbetween.

Do you see what I’m saying?

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Profile photo of bigmac22 bigmac22 (@bigmac22) 1 year, 9 months ago ago

seems to me that we have a choice. yes, there is an infinitude of possibilities that i suppose you could say are already solidified, however, we can choose which possibility we pursue. just because it was there before we chose it doesn’t mean that we didn’t have the choice. i could choose to go left on a road and get lost as a consequence, or go right and not get lost. most importantly, we can choose the now. we choose the moment. of course free will appears nonexistent if you only look at past or future. but right NOW, we can choose. and yes, i think infinity is constantly being expressed, and experienced. its amazing when we learn to start to pay attention to it.

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Profile photo of Plidan Plidan (@Plidan) 1 year, 9 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist,

That is one example.

But count the miles in the universe, it’s infinite right? Now count the feet. It’s bigger.

Stop taking me out of context.

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Profile photo of  Anonymous (@) 1 year, 9 months ago ago

@Plidan,

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg/300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

“Now count the feet. It’s bigger”

Yes but its not infinite, and you can keep getting smaller, until you end up at the quantized unit and you’re not at infinity.

I’m in context.

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Profile photo of Plidan Plidan (@Plidan) 1 year, 9 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist,

If something is infinitely long and contains infinite miles, then the feet contained between the miles, of all miles together is going to be a larger number than the amount of miles.

Both are infinity, but the infinite amount of feet is bigger than the miles.
Have you never read cantor?

No you are not in context, as you are trying to refute a hypothetical “If this then can you infer this” scenario, by attempting to apply a “If this then this hypothetical scenario to it.

I don’t think you understand quantizing, it doesn’t imply to the infinity of infinity, and it is merely a hypothetical scenario that still isn’t even accepted, yet you speak it as if it is a constant truth.

It’s like you cannot grasp the concept of infinity or something.

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Profile photo of  Anonymous (@) 1 year, 9 months ago ago

@Plidan, Sorry my above post was confusing, I thought we were still in the context of moments… let me explain.
You said:
“If the universe is infinite. Does that not imply, that in every moment, infinity must be expressed?”

Then you said:
“If something is infinitely long and contains infinite miles, then the feet contained between the miles, of all miles together is going to be a larger number than the amount of miles.”

If we continue with this analogy of time-space;

‘If the universe is infinitely long, then in every ‘space-moment’ or moment of movement, is an infinite amount of space not expressed?’

Which I would then reply

Not if the universe is quantized. For in every moment, you don’t go from the start to the end, you go a quantized distance, and thus, not an infinite amount of distance. You end up going a certain amount of planck-lengths.

The same is true, then for time – if time is quantized, then for every moment of arbitrary length, you will have surpassed a certain amount of planck lengths.

So, if the universe is quantized, the answer to your original question is no.

Also, these type of comments; “It’s like you cannot grasp the concept of infinity or something.” are not necessary, you seem to like to use them a lot.

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