The philosophy of freedom.

2 years, 8 months ago

Dear lord, we are gathered here today to discuss why you made shit so mysterious.

I’ve been reading up on some classical philosophers and politicians, plato, socrates, etc.

I have come to a paradox. The perfect existence (under any rule(r)) would have absolute freedom. This is the absolute ideal, right? This not only propagates the individual’s potential, but in doing so, also creates the populous’ potential exponentially greater.

Yet what is absolute freedom? The instant paradox is this:
I have absolute freedom and so do you.
I kill you.

Discuss.

April 3, 2012 at 5:00 pm

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Profile photo of Robbie Robbie (@rdorris120) 2 years, 8 months ago ago

absoulute freedom only works when people dont infringe on other peoples freedoms americas got it decent we could do better but we could also do a lot worse

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Profile photo of Sasho Stoyanov Anonymous (@) 2 years, 8 months ago ago
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Profile photo of Axel Axel (@axel) 2 years, 3 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist,
that is an interesting question. In fact, in a totally free world you might want to chose to kill someone. And that person might also chose not to be killed by you. So then, what? We have to perhaps conclude that absolute freedom is impossible. On the other hand, there might be what people consider parallel realities (even parallel universes). You could kill someone in your reality, whereas this person is not killed by you in their own reality. I know this concept is hard to grasp. However, we KNOW (through science), that what we perceive as our reality is just a figment of our imagination produced by our minds, which translates electrical signals into sensory perceptions. The reality we “see” isn’t there at all. It is all just energy swirling around, perceived through our limited sensory organs, and then interpreted by the brain.

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Profile photo of Axel Axel (@axel) 2 years, 3 months ago ago

@rdorris120,
actually, I think Americans are the best at infringing on other nations freedom. They are the only nation fighting abroad on other nations territories for motives of greed and control.

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Profile photo of Yuksel Sarac Yuksel Sarac (@yukselsarac) 2 years, 3 months ago ago

Only when we realize our potential to be a unique individual, we are free. That’s why, we must lift ourselves out of our group-existence, for instance, out of the prejudices we receive from our family, nation, ethnic group and religion, and all that we inherit from the past that limits our creative and imaginative capacity to meet the world directly.

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Profile photo of BirdFlyingHigh BirdFlyingHigh (@birdflyinghigh) 2 years, 3 months ago ago

I think it all comes back to how you’re definining freedom: positive freedom or negative freedom.

Positive freedom: the freedom “to do” something; @IJesusChrist ‘s example, “I have the freedom to reply to you right now”
negative freedom: the freedom FROM an overbearing force; ex: “Police can’t stop me and demand to see an ID card” or even, going back to the OP, “I am free from being murdered randomly”

Once you begin thinking about freedom in these terms, other important factors present themselves. Which type of freedom do you associate with being “free”, which do you associate with being “enlightened”? I’m still asking myself these questions.

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Profile photo of  Anonymous (@) 2 years, 3 months ago ago

@axel, That concept of parallel realities doesn’t really get over the fact that I destroyed your freedom in this reality.

@birdflyinghigh, Nicely analyzed! There is, perhaps, not true absolute ‘positive’ freedom as you state it.

Perhaps even you’re negative freedom is not possible in absolute terms either because all actions directly or indirectly will affect others. Absolute stagnation is freedom, in that nobody can do anything, and nobody’s freedom can be infringed upon.

I think we have concluded that freedom doesn’t exist.

Except in the metaphysical form, which is pretty blatantly above and beyond what’s being discussed. Really you can fly around if you wanted to, but… thats been discussed elsewhere.

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Profile photo of Deepak Deepak (@deepak87) 2 years, 3 months ago ago

I think loss of ALL fear and attachments would result in absolute freedom. Our actions are only limited by various fears and attachments(fear of losing). More the fears, more the limitation. If we can embrace all experiences NO MATTER WHAT then we are totally free.

IMO the physical world just exists as a part of mental perception. It is just a part of the waking state among the 3 states of consciousness – waking, dreaming, sleep. For attaining total freedom, I might need to discover an all inclusive transcendent unchanging essence/understanding/perception and should be able to unwaveringly stay in it.

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Profile photo of BirdFlyingHigh BirdFlyingHigh (@birdflyinghigh) 2 years, 3 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, “I think we have concluded that freedom doesn’t exist.”

I think I agree with you.

Damn.

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Profile photo of D^Antognan D^Antognan (@vibez) 2 years, 3 months ago ago

Nice forum! Even nicer conversation! :) I believe we need to see freedom from a different spectrum because that one’ s too depressing! :P
@birdflyinghigh, @ijesuschrist, Freedom exists! In fact I believe freedom is confused with superability, which means ABILITY to do everything, whereas freedom, I think, means the ability to choose of what’s is within your abilities. So we are TOTALLY FREE to think or do whatever lies within the boundaries of our abilities. And I think these boundaries belong to two categories!
1st. The physical laws
Example: I wanna fly but I can’ t
2nd. Our needs
Example: I am hungry so I can’ t concentrate to study
So in fact we experience total freedom! Theoretically a blind man has the “same amount” of freedom with a healthy one. Basically I think that freedom is not an entity (meaning someone could say the expression more or less freedom) but a quality!
What we lack is the ability, but our freedom awaits us!
What do you think?
-Excuse my elven, it’s not my native.

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