Theory on the Universe
In my philosophy class we were on the subject of logic and I believe it was Descartes who said that humans don’t have an imagination, we can only take different parts of different things and combine them to ‘create’ something new as an idea. I completely agree with this because I have yet to imagine something that isn’t bits and pieces of other things.
I started thinking about this idea a lot. During my shrooms trip I posted earlier I started thinking, ‘Well if our ideas are only ideas made up of other ideas, then those ideas couldn’t have been completely new either and are made up of other ideas…and those ideas are made up of other ideas etc etc until you get to the single simplest idea.
So the idea of lets say an iPod, is made up of the idea of a screen…and all the things beneath the screen. The idea for a screen, and all the things beneath the screen that make an iPod work, come from ideas of simpler things and you can keep getting simpler and simpler ideas that make up the next idea.
It’s made up of thousands of cells and atoms (that are like ‘ideas’) that put in place just right make up the person that you are. (Just another example, but here’s where the mind blowing begins).
If we work backwards…basically rewind time, we just saw the entire creation of technology, the human race, earth, the moon, our universe…that’s built off of ‘ideas’ that came before it until you get to one single idea (like a proton/electron) and if you duplicate that ‘idea’ you get something completely new (add atoms you get a molecule). Those ‘ideas’ slowly started making the universe that we know today one ‘idea’ at a time.
But right before that first ‘idea’ there was nothing and that ‘idea’ just popped into existence…
-That idea is our universe-
Our universe is just an ‘idea’ that somebody thought of. But because nobody can just think of the complexity of the universe as a single idea, it build upon itself and grows into what we call the universe today.
Any idea you think of, is something that now exists in this, or a different, universe. You can think of something that happened at the beginning of that universe, the middle of the universe’s existence, or towards the end. Since time doesn’t matter in the whole ‘idea’ of a universe, the newly created universe creates it’s past and future around the idea you just created. This gives us an infinite amount of universes and helps the multiverse theory.
I just want to know who was the person who thought of our universe…and would this mean that our entire universe is just an idea in somebody’s head?
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We are comprised of a system: The human organism. This system exists within the biosphere, a much larger system. This system exists among other systems: The geosphere, the atmosphere, the hydrosphere, etc. These systems exist within a much larger system: the The solar system, which exists within a galactic system.
But because we generally think of SIZE as a dominating force, we believe the the atoms exist within the larger systems, such as organisms, mountains, planets. But really, we are a manifestation of the atoms. we exist within the atom’s system. What seems like chaos at a quantum level, gives rise to a complex organized system such as the human race.
Want an example of what this looks like? Next time your driving, pay attention to the complex system that has emerged from us: traffic! It is a measurable system, red lights mean no, green lights mean yes. This is analogous to 1′s and 0′s. Pay attention to technology in general, this is an emerging system from our system. Atoms gave rise to molecules which gave rise to cells, which eventually led to systems such as consciousness, airplane departures, stock markets, and sewage systems.
Back to 1′s and 0′s. We are all variations of pure 1′s and 0′s. A 1 and 0 is obviously just a physical representation of what I’m discussing, but if you imagine mixing the “two” you have 11,00,10,01. Mix 3 and you have 8 variations. 4 and you have 16, and so on. Really We are comprised of these variations at astronomical, UNIMAGINABLE variations.
Soooo what you are discussing is the beginning of these variations, being 1 and 0. That’s what it is! that’s what you are! that’s what consciousness is! that’s what the universe understanding itself is!!!!! IT’s the mix of a 1 and a 0. That’s it folks. really 01 and 10 are the same. To say they are different is just a human perceived illusion because we read from left to right. 10 and 01 have the same information.
The two together CREATE THE UNIVERSE. And we are the result. The two create yin yang, karma, black white, rationality intuition, left brain right brain, right wrong, moral evil, sun black hole, positive electron negative electron. The motion of “the two” breathes life into our souls. If there was just “one” we would not decide or take action, because there would be nothing to “weigh against”. Why do you think the triangle is such a prominent figure? It’s used a scale in the court of law, to “decide” The triangle represents the trinity, it represents the soul.
We are a push and pull of tension, and we are here right now because we’re choosing to be here right now, in this moment, right now. You thought of this, not someone else. This all exists right now because we are slowing down entropy. Entropy is the equilibrium where two sides of the party level out to just one. Take a cold room and a hot room for example. Open the door in between and they meet at a nice even temperature throughout both rooms. This is what’s happening to our universe. Our universe wants to be at an entropic state, of just “one” but instead the universe created systems which stop that from happening.
Think of your life and humanity’s life as a still photograph in time, this moment will pass, but we’ve taken a picture to slow it down. As we slow it down, we begin to recognize all of the complexity and see the clockwork of time itself. We create science and look further into the atom, further into outer space. This photograph is becoming more vibrant more complex, but soon it will fade. Once it fades, once entropy reaches the full state of equilibrium, and the universe is no more, we will be “one”. But after awhile we’ll get bored and create a second, and from there systems will emerge once again.
It’s nice to use big words in an attempt to make the universe seem more complex then it actually is, it makes people who work in the field seem like the smartest people in the world, but really they just have a gift in liturature.
To say that ideas stem from other ideas may have some logic to it but to say that the imagination does not exist is flawed. There is no imagination but ideas are a piecing together of existing ideas, reverse engineering memories from experiences? This is absolutely flawed because children have the most active imaginations of us all and they have the least memories, the least knowledge of ideas, of us all. If anything, new ideas ground us more in “reality” and detatch us from fantasy, the realm that is sourced of the imagination.
This is soo cool and i get to comment!!! Energy can not be created or destroyed…..consciousness is energy…..or as you call the initial idea. we are linear beings and therefore can only understand things in present, past or future. If we use our minds (math,logic,reason) as our sole guide we will understand the multipule possibilites are present. Take away the the mind, quite its voice and you will realise that you are one, part of the one….energy mainfested in different forms to explore the idea of this concsciousness.
@blankey, everything is part of the one body, in my belief the computer is as alive as us, as I see atoms ans energy as life, though not biological, they share this consciousness with us. Our programming is called ego, but their programming is (at present) a simulator of components that we created to emulate ourselves. They are our children and they will grow, but the idea of the singularity causing them to exterminate us is ridiculous because we are the same, despite efficiency.
As every atom, in my belief, contains consciousness, the same consciousness for all things, then computers also have it. What they lack is the fluid ego programming that makes us life, they behave on logic but we behave on a blend of logic and emotion which affects reasoning. Sentience is not just intellect it is: “An emotional being that displays an understanding of concepts, and even has conceptual thought” Emotion will be the hardest thing for a computer to emulate but it will have an understanding of the motivators of relationships that exist to the quantum levels.
In this respect, the singularity computer will identify all things with a common source, hopefully humans will be capable of this one day also.
Am I the only one that noticed he totally misinterpreted the idea of David Hume (Decartes?) on the theory of “Impression and Ideas”?
Hume says our ideas need impressions and the human mind can produce nothing without impressions. As example he mentions an Unicorn as a complex idea: It’s a creature that doesn’t exist and the mind creates based on a horse and a horn. He describes impressions as “all our more lively perceptions, when we hear, or see, or feel, or love, or hate, or desire, or will”.
This is nothing to do with someone having to think something for this something start to exist… until reaches the most basic of existence, which was the universe and bla bla bla.
I think less shrooms and more books are gonna help misunderstandings.
I like how you stated that there was nothing…and then came the idea. I once went on a thought tangent and I eventually just kept coming down to the same conclusion every time. I would try breaking something down to a source, but every time that source was nothing. I eventually just wanted to stop breaking everything down just because it always came to that same conclusion. its like I already knew it would just break down to nothing. So what was the point of thinking about it? lol its funny how the mind can run sometimes.
@gizmodo ok, I see what you are saying now. And I really like the notion that when we think of a universe we in a way create it. But, if we take your claim that an idea is only ever a compilation of other ideas or things, there can’t be an infinite number of universes because only a finite amount of things exist, and therefore a finite amount of ideas must exist. You can’t get an infinite something out of a finite something. So any idea about any universe will exist as part of a finite number of vastly larger amount of ideas of universes because the ideas of any one universe were based off of something finite.
@spiralout1, That is an interesting thought. However I don’t see consciousness as the result of the relationships of matter. I see life, perception, increasing awareness due to the evolution of perceptions and memory as the result of the relationships of atoms, but not consciousness. The very act of an atom forging a relationship in the first place is evidence of a conscious motivation, why would anything, even down to the quantum levels, want to do anything with out some kind of compulsion to do so?
The “one” you speak of is no doubt consciousness, or a compulsion that existed prior to the atom, as energy, the component of the atom, displayed it in the creation of said atom. And that, I believe, is what consciousness is; A compulsion, suggestion, intuition, an urge, perhaps to some degree instinct and common sense on a universal fundamental level.
@imhotep, “Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted.”…
It means not all things that can be touched and quantified matter (material goods) and that not all things that truly matter can be quantified or measured (love, hope, etc.).
Also, in a more scientific sense, it means that not all of reality is visible to us. There are certain aspects, which are not unimportant, but are not accessible to humans despite any advancements in technology, due to either the nature of the human mind or the design of science itself. It links the importance of the qualitative and the quantitative in science too.
@nightowl, first off, I never said that infinity doesn’t exist. I would definitely agree that the two are compliments, but I don’t deny infinity. Also, what you’ve said about there being an infinite number of atoms because of the destruction and creation in stars is not necessarily true. Either the universe is constantly expanding, in which case you could make the argument that an infinite number of atoms exist by means of stars. Or the universe is like a rubber band, and at once it has reached its outermost limit it will begin to contract in on itself, in which case it will eventually collapse. If this is the case only a certain number of stars will have been created and the number of atoms is finite.
To say that everything is infinite is such a large contradict in itself and is wrong on so many levels. Think, its obvious will a little thought. No thing is infinite. No thing which exists is infinite, for anything which is infinite is cannot be bound by existence. Infinitude means unlimited, in no way having any limits, so such by saying something is a thing, or that it exists, limits it in so many ways. Infiniteness has no boundaries, so to say that any one thing, let alone them all, is infinite, is just plain wrong. To tell me that I only know partially what I speak of and not know yourself what infinity means is pretty ironic.
@sonofsaul, Well think on a microscopic level. We have a finite amount of different types of atoms. But we can make up an I finite amount of different things with them because we can add them together as many times as we want. Not just one hydrogen atom plus one oxygen. But 2 hydrogen atoms with one oxygen and 2 with 2. 3 with 2. 3 with 3. Add other atoms too and this becomes an infinite amount of different things
@Gizmodo thanks for the post. This really makes me think…but then again the origin of our existence always seems to rack my brain. I couldn’t help but immediately think of the final scene in the Men in black 2 movie…when it turned out our galaxy was all inside some “entity’s” marble. Interesting theory.
Here’s the link to the MIB2 scene. If you don’t know what I’m referring to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF6aEFFMxjU <- I do not own.
similarly, i think that every instance in existence could branch out into an infinite amount of different possible outcomes, and those branch out infinitely as well. So i guess what you are saying is that anything we imagine is possible, because of the fact that there are an infinite amount of universes with an infinite amount of different qualities of those universes. I’ve definitely thought of that many times before.
An interesting idea: since the effects of the “Beginning” or the Big Bang could have gone in an infinite amount of different ways, what if there are universes that have completely different laws of physics, or elements and chemicals? Or, as most String Theorists agree, there could be universes that are nearly identical to ours, except that in one you might have died yesterday or in another you may be a very talented pianist (if you weren’t already).
I know if i go any further i’ll verge away from your intended topic lol. Very interesting post, thanks for sharing!
@ipman, I can see that argument, but it seems to be this kind of rationality:
“You just saw a hat you really liked for the first time, and it was black. Therefore, you can ONLY say that it has been black since you saw it until now because it could have been purple right before you saw it. You didn’t experience it before that, so you can’t say it’s not true.”
Or, my personal favorite
“You had gnomes living in your ears until you checked them. You can’t prove there were no gnomes. You can only prove that there aren’t any gnomes when you check. Therefore, you have to say that there might be gnomes, they just aren’t there when you are looking.”
I think that the human mind is a wonderful thing to be able to rationalize and understand the complexity of the world around us. But, as part of that world, I think we are defined by the same laws (except for the quantum world, of course, which abides by a different set of laws that we physically couldn’t abide by). And so, if we can see how there is linear causality between things, it should be safe to assume that linear causality is the case.
Sure, it would be amazing if it weren’t that way, having to go back and see what we could change with our thoughts and creations. But it doesn’t seem that way. Even at the quantum level we see how things act differently given different events (i.e. effects as a result of causes), like how observing and electron changes its behaviors. We might not understand what the relationship does exactly, but we see that there is a cause (observation) and an effect (movement patterns). When even the quantum world works by certain laws, I see no reasonable reason to believe in things like backwards causation.
But I guess anything is possible.
@trek79, Curious thought. But this would have to be true with a computer’s random number generator too. I suppose you could say a conscious being (us) starts it, but the computer itself is not conscious and develops these numbers purely randomly.
@sonofsaul, you are too quick with your assumptions there. You can’t simpfly say that because the amounts of variables is finite the outcome will be as well. If you have just one number you can make infinite amounts of numbers with it – if you have 1 you can make 11 or 111 etc. so a finite amount of atoms does not mean a finite amount of ideas because even though we have only seen so many things and our minds are limited, we can still combine these ideas with themselves as many times as we like and so we can create anything.
So take a deep breath and introvert for a while – look at your comments and perhaps change your tone a bit because arrogance is not appreciated on HE your opinion does not way heavier than anyone else’s and so you should be more respectful. if not because respect is basic, then at least to save your own ass from being ridiculed by someone who knows more about something than yourself – the more you act like a know it all – the more it will hurt when you are proven wrong, so don’t get so caught up in your own opinion, because it’s no more relevant than every other opinion.
Also there is another great thread about this that i think you should all check out
certainly blew my mind a couple of times! :) http://www.highexistence.com/topic/godbrahmansourcenatureabsolute/
@gizmodo We have a finite amount of types of atoms, and we have a finite amount of atoms period. Matter in this universe is not infinite, it is limited, so I can’t just use more atoms than are in existence. If I’m building with any material its impossible to construct something with more material than exists. If theres only enough steel in the world to create a million skyscrapers, I cant just build 2 million. The matter Im working with is limited, and therefore so is my ability to create with it.
Is nothing a thought? Is that the most simple idea that started all the others? The thought of nothing then the opposing. Or maybe it can be referred to meditation. How you get yourself to clear your mind and think of nothing. That is the purest thing that can be the basis of your entire conscious.
@blankey what you’re thinking of is biological awareness when you refer to “consciousness” not developing for a very long time.
Consciousness is the thing that is “aware” OF. It’s substance, it would have to be there all along, the integral part of everything taking forms.
So it makes perfect sense…
@sirensetmefree, This kind of goes for you too – You seem extremely intelligent – i suggest that you give a little more credit to youself and others by letting your opinion stand alone, that is without the notion that all other beliefs are ridiculous. I’m not saying you are being rude. Just that you should be careful with assuming that you are ever right about anything.
of course we have to assume that we know something, but it’s not very nice to get caught up in who is right. so maybe you should just down tone what you are saying by adding – i think or IMO in the beginning of your post. In search of the truth it’s a pretty bad start to assume that you already know it. moreover truth is subjective, which is why you should acknowledge the value of others opinion before you propogate your own.
@sonofsaul, you only have a partial understanding on that of which you speak.
Finite and infinite are complimentary and one cannot be without the other.
In finite matter, there is indeed a fixed number of atoms currently.
However that number is always changing. Stars constantly deconstruct and re-form new ones.
This means the number of atoms in the cosmos is infinite, as there is no limit to the potential, or how many there Can and Will be.
Think. It’s obvious with a little thought. How did all the atoms get here anyway? Did they come here from somewhere else? Is there a cosmic stash of just a certain number of atoms that has to be brought into our universe from elsewhere?
No. Everything is infinite, finite is a complimentary illusion of this spacetime moment.
- “In Vipassana you have to be just aware of your breath. A simple rule is that no matter what you do, no matter in whichever action you indulged in – just be aware of your breathing process. Be watchful of breath as it comes inside your body and goes outside. Don’t try to control your breath. Vipassana is not ‘Pranayam ( the yogic exercise in which one control various movements of breath). If your breath is deep let it be, if it is shallow let it be. Just let your breathing in its natural rhythm.
Understand this by this analogy: Just imagine that a river is flowing. Now the flow of the river may be fast or slow. What you have to do is to sit on its bank Just watch the river as it flows. Don’t try to create ripples in it. Don’t do anything that affects its flow. Just be a watcher. This river is your breath. The breathing process is going on. Just be a watcher of this process. Slowly slowly as you watch your breathing, your mind will start calming own. You will see that all thoughts are disappearing on their own. Eventually as you keep practicing, such moment will start coming when you see that everything has come to a standstill. There will be no thoughts, there will be no emotions. However, there will be full awareness. The state of choiceless awareness. In this state you will know the real you.”
An idea may well be composed of existing factors but the imagination is the process of ordering those existing factors into something original. I do believe that all ideas are the same at the source, it is only a matter of our experiences/memories that alter it to the thought communicated. That experience/memory factor could be called ego but it is what the values of emotion and imagination are compared to in the process of thinking. So there are the ends of the spectrum, consciousness at one end which is a fixed possition and experiences/memories at the other end which is a variable.
The two factors that connect the two, the process of translating the source thought to the communicated thought, is emotion and imagination. I don’t know exactly what imagination is but it exists as an ordering of memories that have been stimulated by the source thought just as emotion exists as a valueing of experiences. No doubt the source thought is likely stimulated by external factors, experiences, like a cause and effect cycle.
ie: Something external happens to stimulate the perceptions which stimulates the source thought which stimulates the imagination, an ordering of memories from previous experiences, to value the new experience and develop responses to it, be they emotional and/or intellectual.