To be honest I’m not a fan of “civil disobedience” or non-violent protest.
They put you in prison, and they can make a profit off you, after all the tax payers pay for it, and since you did nothing but hold a sign up and change a handful of minds (that were already probably leaning to your side, lets be honest), does anything really get done?
There isn’t enough momentum now (or in the foreseeable future) for a mass civil-disobedience protest enough to clog the judicial system in anyway. I think there is enough civil obedience out there to not even allow some kind of mass change from civil-DISobedience, so many people would say “no, I better go back to work”.
I am a fan of destructive protest. I believe the only way to get shit done is to dismantle. Nobody gets hurt, the infrastructure comes down.
I’m probably on a list somewhere in the F-B-I now for saying this.
@retech, funny you say that about truck drivers. Was watching that apocalypse preppers or whatever, and the truck driver was one of them. He had said “If some kind of crazy shit happens in this country, its my duty to keep delivering.”
The exact opposite of what you’re advocating for (or at least discussing)
@IJesusChrist, I agree with you all the way. It seems to me that when people go out and bang drums and hold signs, it doesn’t convince who wasn’t already convinced, and certainly doesn’t scare the opposition into changing. The 40-50 somethings just call you a dirty hippy while they keep on going to work that’s killing them slowly, and the 1% probably just laughs at the “peasantry”, protestors and workers alike. I heard at some Occupy rally in New York or something, they were actually overlooking the protest on some balcony drinking wine having a grand ol’ time…….they’re not scared, no way. Meanwhile, the people who need to get on board to change the most are scared, simply because of the high bills associated with staying alive, just like retech said…..health insurance alone is like a gun to our heads. I guess we can hope, ironically, that the bills will get so high that even the curmudgeons will reach their breaking point.
So who wants to go out and flip some Bentleys over?
I think that direct actions that make people stop and think about it are the best. Big events that take some explaining – so when people try to figure out just what happened, they’re forced to think about the ideas they need to change within themselves.
Flipping over cars is fun, but also just senseless violence. I think the best actions are the ones with some art involved.
You guys should read about all the protests that have been going on in greece for the past few years. Truck drivers parked their trucks on the highway and blocked many major roads, which disrupted the gas delivery and almost shut down Athens.
While some of these protests were successful in getting the people what they wanted, (they stopped the parliament from moving the retirement age from 52 to 54), the country is still in shambles. Violent protests can definitely disrupt and cause change, but it will not solve the problem. Egypt is another great example. Their protests were successful in having Mumbarak removed from presidency, but now they are still having major problems with the intermittent military government.
@BirdFlyingHigh, “Flipping over cars is fun, but also just senseless violence. I think the best actions are the ones with some art involved.”
Perhaps someone could sculpt something out of the junk? haha. I agree, it is more satisfying to have something more intelligent and creative to do like artwork, versus violence, which never makes anyone feel good in the long run.
The problem is the mentality of the people we’re dealing with though. These are people who think their money/intelligence/connections/”hard work” gives them the right to do whatever they want to us, and that we have to take it because we’re smaller and weaker. Like a high-school bully, I think brute force is all they understand, as long as they think they are still the biggest and the toughest, they’ll keep acting the same way.
If you look at Greece, for decades they had a ridiculously unsustainable system of public services that were more akin to a welfare state that they all had jobs that the do virtually nothing and get pay exhorbidant ammounts of money for, all at the cost of the national debt. Then the global financial crisis hit and their country hit the fan like shit and all these excesses had to be cut due to huge bailouts by other countries. All these people had comfortable lives and now they have fuck all, so they are pissed off.
You know… it’s scary as shit… but most of me completely agrees with you, @ijesuschrist…
The key is that it has to be done right. It has to be the right kind of destruction at the right time. Honestly, there’s still a part of me that’s like “fuck no, I’m not going to stoop to the level of a leadership that believes in terrorism as a legit way to control people.” And I don’t think I can get over that. And I think there’s something more to this story that we’re not quite getting. But there’s something that REALLY FUCKING PISSES ME OFF about “activism” and how people who wear stupid masks and take pictures in front of riot cops think they’re the shit. When really, they’re just wasting time.
I don’t have the answer. And I’m on the fence. But something in what you’re saying is very, very true.
I hate those masks. It’s so cowardly. If you truly want change, YOU need to stand up for it. If you don’t want it enough to put yourself in danger for it, then get back to your cubicle. I’m personally not willing to stand up yet because there isn’t a clear change being pushed for. If we got our act together and knew what the shit we were talking about, then maybe we’d actually accomplish something meaningful. Everybody’s just angry and not serious enough about it. They’re just following suit. And camping in the park because it’s the cool thing to do now-a-days.
I like this post a lot. The problem is how is anyone going to get people organized for such a thing. I’m sure our government is scared shitless of something like this, because of similar protests around the world. This could really work if it is organized really well. If truckers, or any group were to strike to influence a change, I think people would really have to back them up so they could feel confident they were doing something for a cause that means something.
Well, I’ll say this.
Trains are more important than anything in this country…
Bet you didn’t even know this happened:
I just saw an avatar of someone earlier with CISPA on it. Now I see this. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/video/2012/apr/27/cispa-anonymous-hackers-video
I agree that wearing masks seems cowardly. People need to be willing to be arrested- that’s the difference between the protests that were successful in the past and the ones that are happening now. Civil disobedience only works if it is bold. Sitting in a park and holding signs in a public place really does nothing. We are too afraid to be punished. If we keep playing by their rules, we can never win.