I understand there are pros and cons to war, more specifically current wars, that is Afghanistan, Iraq, the war on terror and any other skirmishes that I, and others, may not be fully aware of.
I am asking people to contribute their ideas on war, be it pro or con, to see if we can come up with some kind of conclusion.
Is war worth it? What is the best approach? Do we invade to spread democracy (Iraq) or do we "plant the seed" (Libya) and nurture movements toward it?
Any other questions or information on war people can volunteer, would be great.
I personally think wars are a necessary evil but I am not completely sold on the concept. I mean, any war we get involved in must be for good reason right? Otherwise why do we sacrifice so much for them?
I truly respect and appreciate the soldiers for their work and though a person may not support a war they must always support the troops.
Thanks for your thoughts.
I try to look at it in the simplest way first. Fights happen between individuals. There could be a person who was very peaceful. If someone that wasn’t so peaceful came along and started a fight, he might let the guy punch him because he would just rather not be violent. What about when your life is in danger though, or if they were hurting your child or partner?
It’s all about whos pushing who first, or if both sides just like to fight.
Ideally, war shouldn’t be an issue. I think humans are better than that, or at least have potential to be.
Child sacrifices are almost nonexistent these days, murder rates have dropped throughout the world over the last 1000 years or so. There’s still (maybe) billions of years to go.. Do you really think we’ll be killing each other forever?
Sure there can be some good things about war, but spreading false democracy by war isn’t a good thing. All war is terrorism, you put fear into people to make them submit. War isn’t a necessary evil, it’s probably the most unnecessary evil there is.
The most ridiculous war is this “War on terror” bullshit. It’s terror vs terror, nothing else. The americans have no more right than the arabs to kill people for their own sake. This is exactly what the “war on terror” is all about, getting more power. It’s not even cleverly disguised yet most americans are oblivious to the fact.
I really hope these idiots will drop some big ass bombs on each other real soon, end this shit and let people see how pointless their fucking war is.
There is no good reason to take human lives. Period. War is stupid and primitive.
A bit offtopic, I noticed that in the media. Americans, whatever they talk about, have the tendency to use war analogies. If they are part of a sports team before a game, they say they are going to war and going to win. Or bombard the opponent’s defense. Or similar stuff. I hear that kind of stuff also when casually talking with my American friends about nothing in particular. It seems to me that it is becoming ingrained in American minds. This is just something I have observed over time and I think it’s important to notice what effects these things have on our thoughts and behavior regarding war.
What about a soldier? Why does a person sign up for the armed forces? Is it an action bug, a killer instinct? Is it as simple as career opportunity? Is it noble aspirations like protecting the innocent, to give others an opportunity to live and
grow toward a better future?
Is it a sense of duty, the best way they know how to contribute? Is it belonging, a community of like-mindedness? Is it all of the above?
Are these valid or naive motivations? Are they vain or selfless reasons?
I do not agree on war. Per say the american war in afghanistan atm.
My cousin and a dear friend of mine went there as keep keeping forces. They never shoot a bullet. Made sure women were allowed to go to school, that the supply lines were kept safe from bandits.
There is war, and then there is peace keeping.
Good question Ray :) I agree with Syn that it’s a game of egos. And I also agree that war is primitive….and bc it’s primitive-I think we’re all going to have to collectively evolve to get past war…which sucks, I’m not sure what’s taking everyone so long.. doesn’t seem like a difficult concept to us :)
I think a lot of soldiers think of going into the military bc they’re going to “defend” their country & it’s way of life, protect their families, yada yada, yada…which is dangerous thinking bc the military has alterior motives.
But what about really going to war to defend? I mean, say some country was going to “take us over” and started bombing your neighborhood? Do you think it would be justified then? It would still be war.
What is it good for?
haha xD Everytime I see that phrase it pops in my head.
It really isn’t good for anything. I suppose to keep population down, and to stop terrible acts like genocide and harsh dictators, but other than that we shouldn’t have to kill eachother to figure shit out.
war is for profit. i really do think its that simple. sure we can spend all kinds of money we dont have to fight wars that shouldnt exist, but there are always going to be profits in the end for certain people or groups. it does not matter if it is for oil, or the companies getting overpriced government contracts to produce more guns, tanks, missiles, etc….sometimes it even happens where the same company is profiting from both sides….talk about profits!
@ray butler- i cant answer your question in general, but i can tell you of my own experience. about 7 years ago (when the whole 9/11 thing was still fresh) i almost joined the marines. the reason i didnt follow thru was because i could never pass any drug test…..but back then i was a pretty angry person, and more or less liked the idea of killing people for a living. i was training with a large group of recruits every weekend, scored in the 98th percentile on the asvab, and the recruiters told me with a score like that i could pretty much pick my job. i told them i didnt care i wanted to be a grunt.
in retrospect im glad i didnt do it, and i have certainly lost my anger at this point (most of it)….i think when youre young and strong and whatnot, it is easy to feel invincible, throw a few other factors in (like playing call of duty all the time), and it almost seems like a natural thing to do….
I am pro-peace and I’ve never seen any justification for war. Both sides lose lives! You don’t win wars, you survive them :/
Alex has brought up the point about population and how it regulates it (for lack of better word). I’m wondering what things would be like now if big wars never happened in the past. Would that have caused us to figure out answers to problems like overpopulation and resource management faster or would that brought humans closer to it’s demise? Just a thought…
And here’s a quote I stumbled upon just recently that is quite relevant to this post:
“The pioneers of a warless world are the [youth] that refuse military service.” —Einstein
War is there to fall back on when everything else fails. It’s been around forever and it will continue to be around forever as long as peoples disagreements escalate and they continue to believe their “way of things” is the only right way of things. I don’t think it’s necessarily bad or good. It’s kinda just like a big human impasse where we rely on primitive but natural techniques to settle disputes.
If it weren’t for war ask yourself how far the human race would be? Nations are built with war and conquest. Perhaps we’d still all be in small tribes separated from those who are different. IMO war is the only way to unite man under one banner. I don’t see how this can be achieved peacefully or else it would have been done. Thats the funny thing about humanity.. To achieve the peace we all desire we’d have to give up so much, freedom, national pride, diversity in religion, diversity in culture, the lives of men and women and definitely have to take on the hardship and burden of war. Humans are to indivisualistic and emotional to do it willigly.
Necessary evil for our society.
I’ve noticed that war has been used as a way to break economic problems like recession and depression. WW2 was born from the ashes of the great depression and even seems to have broken it. After WW2 it was boom time.
In the 60’s Vietnam seemed to be, at first, a convenient distraction from social upheaval like pop culture and the civil rights movement, among other things.
Desert storm was more about repelling invading Iraq from Kuwait, highly motivated by protecting oil asset interests.
The gulf war certainly gained oil asset advantages but came under a guise of weapons of mass destruction and toppling a mad dictator. The freshness of 9/11, in hindsight, makes it seem to be more like venting rage.
If you look at WW2 again, this is very much a justified war. You have a fascist regime in control of a technologically advanced society. The Nazis were puritan racists with ambition to conquer the world. They wanted to rid the world of Jews through mass genocide and enslave what they decided were lesser races.
To clarify, I mean it was justified for the Allies to go to war to stop the Nazis. I do not swing the white supremacy way, to be sure to be sure.
@trek79, Anyone who is anti-war because wars are violent is seriously missing the bigger picture. Wars don’t just “happen” because world leaders argue whose shadow is bigger, they’re usually the result of years and years of rising tension or unacceptable regime tyranny. Also, some of the greatest advances in science and technology of all time have come from war.
@trek79, I’m in the USAF. I joined because i wanted to do a job, do it well, without bullshit, and make a difference. I quickly learned there’s a lot of bullshit, not a lot of work, but I still kinda make a difference. My opinion on war is that yes, it can be justified, but many wars are done for motives other than bettering the world.
I think the movie Watchmen has a good idea on why there are wars and conflicts, simply, they are the result of fear of not having enough. If this were to be alleviated somehow, I think there would be a lot less wars. Obviously it’s not going to solve every issue a person, or country, may have with another, but I think it would go a long way to solving the problem of war. Do I think war is right? Most of the time no, I think the time, energy, resources, and human lives would be better spent trying to make sure there is enough to go around, like working on clean, infinite energy or cures for disease or terraforming/space exploration (we could solve our population problems by colonizing other worlds). Nevertheless, sometimes war is the only solution when one side leaves the others with no choice, like the case of the Nazis. Also on an individual level, I don’t think people should go out of their way to look for trouble, but at the same time, people shouldn’t let themselves be victims either, even if it is to maintain nonviolence.
If there’s one thing in this world that I can say I hate, it’s war.
It’s so sad… And so wrong.
We’re killing our own people. Even though we’re not from the same country and we have our differences, we are killing people who are just like us. We have the world in common, we have the universe in common.
I know that it is necessary sometimes (and after Vietnam, we can see that it might have been pointless at times) but really… when it comes down to it, we are only hurting ourselves. No matter what side we are on, we are fighting for the same thing.
Fighting to win.
And in war, we know that there are no winners.
@mercurial, They dont push it on you, per se. I’m not forced to be a Christian, but they dont offer any service other than Christian. All the Chaplain’s prayers are to a Christian God, despite him never saying Christ. Its all Christian based, but I’m not Discriminated against for not being Christian.
And I have heard of our weather control. I cant really say much more on the subject.
It’s amazing how even a small amount of people can have discussions that can be accurate compared/contrasted with the views of the main world.
The internet is a product of war. Amazing how that happens huh?
To me, we all live in one beautiful house but we are somewhat carefree when it comes to positives/negatives of situations at hand when it comes to home issues. For instance, humans as a whole will go through years upon years of war, tyranny, depression, yadda yadda yadda. Say something is bad, that sucks! But if we get something from it then well “eh maybe it wasn’t that bad”. We almost forget our real emotions because we are almost tricked into feeling better about it. What happens when a kid falls down and hurts his knee? It happens frame by frame as he falls, skin and flesh ripping on hot conrete…a truely traumatic(and exaggerated) experience, in that moment it is hell on earth. He gets a lollipop and forgets it ever happened.
People as a whole seem to be like this. Instead of us thinking that war is bad because it is the killing of our own people, we tend to look at what positives we get from it. War is bad but it fuels discovery, war is bad but it helps technology advancement.
It seems once we get past something bad, we humans have no problem recognizing the benefits and we ignore the ugly truths.
Maybe we as a whole are too able to accept “welp, war is bad but it gave us all this”. Maybe this is something that calls for a change in humanity. Say we did all live in one beautiful house, we are essentially taking our ‘mess’ — all these terrible things, all this chaos and calamity and squeezing as much as possible into a spare room in the house. But we’re okay with that because let’s say occasionally if you open that door you might find something beneficial. Why not just get rid of that whole room and use what we have learned, take all these advancements war has given us and progress them. It’s not too late to stop having wars, do we realize that? It’s not like we won’t progress WITHOUT war.
We’ve come far enough and taken enough of the benefits of war. Eventually all these problems we sweep under the bed are going to be too much for us to handle and we will all think “man, should’ve cleaned that up when I had the chance!” As far as we know, if there IS NO ALIEN LIFE FORM, well…NOBODY IS WATCHING US, we can stop our antics boys and girls, we aren’t being watched right? ;]
You want to win at war? People these days can’t even figure out how or why they are fighting wars with themselves and how to even win them in the first place.
@ojai, You pretty much summed it up right there for me. We are quick to forget the suffering and heartache that comes with war. I mean think back to school (some of you don’t have to think back) where you’re taught about war as part of history. Yes the suffering is covered but mainly we’re told about achievements that came from it and what it did for civilisation.
At the end of the day war results in the the death of people by the hands of others, and I don’t think I’ll ever be ok with that.