We do NOT need more gun control
…We just need to start creating a society which no longer supports the endless cycle of dysfunction we have. We are still living with outdated and flawed belief systems that we pass on to next generations, and it isn’t working anymore! We are a consumerism-driven culture which causes a complete shutoff of any curiosity and/or creativity you once had as a child.
DON’T BELIEVE Obama when he comes on TV and says the solution for how to prevent shootings like the one in Connecticut is to impose stricter gun laws and take away peoples’ rights to own them. That is NOT the problem!
Just the other day a man in China stabbed 22 children and an elderly woman outside of a primary school! But I bet you didn’t hear jack shit about that! That’s right! It happened! And here’s a link for you: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248054/China-stabbing-22-children-elderly-woman-stabbed-outside-primary-school-Chinese-knifeman.html
Now, as you can see, the problem is NOT with the weapons. The problem is with us! The world we’ve created! And we’ve got a government that is eager for more control and is more than happy to take advantage of heinous events like this shooting to further their agenda.
DON’T FUCKING FALL FOR IT!
The last thing you need is your government imposing more control over you. If you constantly rely on your government to solve issues, it can only end in less power for you and more control for them.
Instead we need to start bringing it to peoples’ attention that this is a culture disease! And at the same time, the very elite and the very powerful are taking advantage of it and benefiting greatly from it.
The fucked up shit in the world will continue to exist if we don’t change our belief systems.
You are a spiritual being having a human experience. You are NOT your job title, you are not your possessions, you are not your education, your social status, your race, or your religion.
We need to focus on building a society which understands and utilizes the truly important things in people, which is what you create, how much you create, and how much you share it! We have a society which wipes out the wonderful curiosity, creativity, and imagination which all children are born with.
“We think we understand the rules when we become adults, but really we experience a narrowing of our imagination.”
We don’t need to eat at Burger King anymore, or McDonalds. We don’t need to sit on our fat asses and order Dominos Pizza for dinner. We need to put down our high tech phones and go outside for a fucking walk! YOUR HUMAN BODY IS MEANT TO BE EXCERCISED! It is meant to be provided with nutritional, whole foods! We need to stop breeding a society which constantly puts images in our face of candy bars and processed foods. By allowing this, we’re teaching ourselves to eat for pleasure. Eating is not about pleasure, it’s about fueling your body.
Money – it is the root of all evil. It is because of money why we have violence, why we see nonstop wars, and why the few control the many. It is responsible for disease and sickness, obesity, starvation, depression, suicide, I could go on and on.
It is time to seriously rethink the way we’re living. It starts with you. It starts with a new understanding of who you really are at your deepest level. You are one with everything. You ARE everything. Your brain and your body are the means through which consciousness experiences itself. You are not your ego.
It is time for us to change.
Evolve or die.
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@tigerlily, Just do whatever part you can. A mere spreading of the word is all it takes. Just get the ball rolling! Spread the awareness. It starts with you. It starts with all of us. Everyone seems to want to wait around until something just magically changes. Our complacency is how we got to this point in the first place. This is just in the initial stages. It will take time. But it is our obligation to get things started. This isn’t something that’s gonna get fixed quickly. We just happen to live during a time when all of this is still only an ideology, so we need to spread that ideology for it to come to fruition.
@theskafish Not a privilege? It IS a privilege.
Is it really the only way to go from A to B? That would mean A and B are both encased inside some sort of building, and the only route between them is a tunnel. Is this really the case?
And do you really HAVE TO go from A to B? Nope that’s a choice. Do you really HAVE TO be somewhere on time? Nope that’s a choice.
The most basic level means surviving, and nothing but surviving. You don’t need a car or a computer or a dollar or a gun for that. All you need is water and something to eat.
And if you don’t like expectations, stop putting your life in the hands of people with expectations. It’s a mutual thing yknow, if you expect things of others, you have no right to complain when they expect things of you. That’s hypocrisy.
Stop blaming other people for your choices. If you don’t like society, either change it or leave it.
“Either act or forget, complaining is silly.” -Stefan Sagmeister
i totally agree – i feel like its a give in that automatic weapons should be restricted – i believe in freedom of choice, but the downside just significantly outweighs the upside here, and just like we dont allow citizens to have atomnic weapons, we should consider the upside / downside of this ‘freedom’
on that note though, fixing this issue of gun control doesnt address the real problem – people are fcked up and people get a sick thrill out of this kind of occurrence – its clear bc of how the media covers it – people are fcked up and its really what is disturbing about this whole situation
@chodebalm, “Money – it is the root of all evil. It is because of money why we have violence, why we see nonstop wars, and why the few control the many. It is responsible for disease and sickness, obesity, starvation, depression, suicide, I could go on and on. ”
Money is just a made up concept. Humans created it. Money isn’t responsible for fucking anything.
The few control the many because the many are idiots who want to be controlled.
Disease and sickness are common only due to people abusing their own bodies.
People are obese because they eat too fucking much and sit on their asses all day, starvation happens because people don’t eat.
People get depressed because they think shitty thoughts.
People commit suicide because they fuck their minds up too badly.
Stop blaming shit, stop making excuses. THAT is the root cause of all the errors of society.
People need to wake the fuck up and TAKE SOME FUCKING RESPONSIBILITY for their own damn lives.
No, we are not everything. We are our egos, deal with it. The belief that we’re more than ego is just the ego’s coping mechanism. Deal with it.
Take some fucking responsibility.
Weapons aren’t the problem, money isn’t the problem, shitty laws aren’t the problem.
The people themselves are the problem.
All the problems come from people’s moronic choices.
DEAL WITH IT.
Not one of those children in the China stabbing died. If Lanza only brought a knife then there would be 20 children in CT “Wounded” not “Dead”. A gun does a whole lot more damage.
I don’t think Obama EVER said take away guns rights. I has to be addressed.
This is an overview of the effects of strict gun laws in Australia. This cannot really be compared to the U.S.A for the fact of population differences and the law enforcement quality (The U.S has a buttload of weak spots in their law enforcement system as compared to Australia, the U.S have areas that crime is completely overwhelming as far as the police that are provided to work it, in Australia if an area has higher crime we asign more police to crack down on it)
Another thing is you can’t really guess what crimes could have been prevented by gun freedoms, but you can’t guess what crimes would have occured by gun freedoms either. All you can really presume is that more people would have been shot, that is likely true of both criminals being shot by victims and victims being shot by criminals.
Changes in social problems related to firearms over time (Keep in mind that strict laws were put in place after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, no massacres have occured since)
Historically, Australia has had relatively low levels of violent crime. Overall levels of homicide and suicide have remained relatively static for several decades, while the proportion of these crimes that involved firearms has consistently declined since the early 1980s. Between 1991 and 2001, the number of firearm-related deaths in Australia declined 47%.
In the year 2002–2003, over 85% of firearms used to commit murder were unregistered. In 1997–1999, more than 80% of the handguns confiscated were never legally purchased or registered in Australia. Knives are used up to three times as often as firearms in robberies. The majority of firearm-related deaths are suicides, of which many involved the use of hunting rifles.
According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, from 1985–2000, 78% of firearm deaths in Australia were suicides, and firearm suicides have fallen from about 22% of all suicides in 1992 to 7% of all suicides in 2005. Immediately following the Buyback there was a fall in firearm suicides which was more than offset by a 10% increase in total suicides in 1997 and 1998. There were concerted efforts in suicide prevention from this time and in subsequent years the total suicide rate resumed its decline.
The number of guns stolen has fallen dramatically from an average 4,195 per year from 1994 to 2000 to 1,526 in 2006–2007. This is co-incident with a campaign by police and shooting bodies, such as the Sporting Shooters’ Association of Australia’s ‘Secure Your Gun, Secure Your Sport’ drive, to encourage secure storage of rifles and shotguns (handguns were already subject to strict storage requirements). Long guns are more often stolen opportunistically in home burglaries, but few homes have handguns and a substantial proportion of stolen handguns are taken from security firms and other businesses. Only a tiny proportion, 0.06% of licensed firearms, are stolen in a given year. Only a small proportion of those firearms are recovered. Approximately 3% of these stolen weapons are later connected to an actual crime or found in the possession of a person charged with a serious offence.
@alexishungry, The thing is that these incidents are over within a few minutes, it is not just about having a response team, but a well educated team that can work with the community at large in prevention and preparation.
Civil rights come into play and you can’t just identify a potential threat and then arrest them or raid their homes. The idea is to watch them, anonymous tips are one way to find out if there are these kinds of weapons unregistered and owned by unlicensed people, that are easily accessable by disgruntled people, but tips are not evidence sufficient for arrest or search and seizure warrants.
Teachers and parents need to communicate their concerns with school counsellors, students who may have inside information about class mates that they are worried about, etc. The cost on anyones conscience should be so great if they could have done something but were not confident in their own judgement, or some notion of being a “snitch” and selling out friends is a cultural taboo.
The biggest issue in my opinion is that people do not respect the urgency of appropriate storage of weapons. The difference between being a gun owner and a gun handler is astronomical and people need to see that the people who love guns most and the people who are best with them are not just good at shooting, they are the best with every aspect of gun ownership, including safe handling and appropriate storage.
This is a cultuaral nessecity to instill in people, it is not about just having the right to have a gun, the ownership entails a huge comprehensive responsibility that if neglected could result in these mass incidents.
This is so damn spot on I don’t even know what to say.
Anyone who doubts what @chodebalm is saying is only lying to themselves.
If we continue down this path it’s inevitably going to lead to our own self destruction—no way around it. And the universe doesn’t care. It can start again, the earth will always be here and do just fine (actually a lot better) with out us. I’m seriously hoping Dec. 21st begins SOME kind of change, ANY kind of change from the way we look at the world and especially ourselves as human beings. You are NOT your ego, you are NOT a skin-capsulated individual who doesn’t matter. YOU have the power to produce real change in the world, you ARE the fucking world! We ALL are!
That is all.
It is not a conspiracy man. Hunting rifles, shotguns and certain pistols are okay here. Just not automatics or a semi auto handgun. If your government wants to outlaw guns completely they will have to change your constitution. Which is a big step. I’m not sure about America but we need to have a referendum before any constitutional change is made.
If you ask the majority of Europeans they will not understand why America has such liberal gun laws. Take a page out of the book of your contemporaries.
This is High Existence. It promotes the existence of people, guns do the exact opposite of that.@chodebalm,
Basically, just like the ego, the more importance you put on these things, the more it will appear. Both are illusionary though. We create it all in our minds which then extends in this world and becomes “reality”.
@johnkorvac, Agreed. This is the United States of America that we are talking about here. This is the country with the most gun-related deaths in the whole world that doesn’t involve some kind of war. There is no war within the country. These are individual acts of violence, and gang related acts of violence. How about the inner cities, where there are gang related shootings and deaths almost every day. New York city has had one day this year in which no single person has died. Granted that the events that have taken place in China are terrible. There is no excuse for the media to deny any tragic evens that have taken place around the globe, but the contrast speaks for itself, as you have said. And, being from China, you have direct experience with your argument. This argument is yet another example of the divide the America between conservatives and liberals. There is either a lack of gun control or too much gun control. Can we not just accept that there needs to be a shift in leadership, and that more money should be invested into mental health research? The children would want us not to argue with one another, but come up with a way in which we don’t have to fear being alive.
Gun control wouldn’t have stopped this at all, the weapons were STOLEN. Ask Chicago how their strict gun control laws are going for them, they have the highest amount of gun related crime in the nation. Arizona has the loosest gun laws and the least gun control, figure it out for yourselves. This is America, not China or anywhere else in the world, this country was founded on well armed citizens.
No crocodile tears from a child slaughtering despot is going to convince me to give up my rifles while violent criminals and government funded thugs keep theirs.
@chodebalm, I seriously think American gun laws need to change. You have a .22, which is pretty much a target rifle, My dad used to have a .22, and very few people here have guns. But lets face it your .22 is not the most destructive gun, but an assault rifle is. This is not a weapon for personal defence, they were created to kill many and kill them quickly.
Guns are not illegal in most countries, you just can’t get your hands on them as easy as candy bars. Like I said my dad used to own a .22 but he still needed to prove regularly that he was a responsible gun owner. Other countries don’t have strict gun laws because their people are lying down and allowing their governments to take their rights away. It is because they realise that allowing guns to be a common part of society is promoting violence.
They are not taking away your rights they are making your country safer for its inhabitants. If your gun holds sentimental value get it decommissioned and the government can’t take it off you. Like I said earlier “the right to bare arms” is and outdated sentiment. Just because there are a lot of responsible gun owners who like their guns doesn’t mean your gun laws shouldn’t be change. Your government aren’t trying to ban guns, just making it harder for dangerous people to get them and hopefully changing the types of guns available.
i believe that there is a failure in culture, but one cultivated by a society which allows each and every citizen the right to destroy the other. and just because some apparently enlightened officials, responsible for their dearest held constitution said so. violence is indeed inherent, but the way in which it is inflicted results from the means. the american’s defence against gun ownership, i think, stems from having had the power of owning one- holding the gun in there hands, and thus feeling the authority and safety that it provides. but this power can be corrupted, and used for malicious ends. the media of course plays a part, but one which cannot be avoided. it has also somehow become a natural sway for someone looking to inflict damage. finally, there is nothing sane or harmonious about owning an automatic rifle. its like having a penis extension that can second as a bomb.
@chodebalm, With concealed guns in public, yes this is a tricky area. I think lower calibre peashooters are okay in general but a lot of consideration has to be taken before you just go out with it. It depends greatly on your situation, if you are going to be in a relatively secure environment and especially if there are kids around, you have to weigh up the pros and cons.
However if you are going to be walking home in a dark seedy neighbourhood, through alleyways and such, you know what I mean? Another thing is, if you plan on getting drunk it would be a bad idea to take your gun.
One thing is; if someone holds a gun on you to rob you then even if you have a gun, you should just give them what they want, your wallet/purse, phone, jewelry, watch, everything but your gun, because if they really mean business then as soon as they see it they will shoot, before you even get a look in. I think a great lot of gun robberies are all piss and wind, but you don’t want to risk that.
@alexa “I do NOT want my government coming in and taking away any more of my rights.”
-Well, if you live under the government, they decide what rights you have. There really are no birthrights in this world. People can offer you these rights, in exchange for other things, but they can’t really guarantee it anyway. It’s a shitty deal if you ask me.
If you just join in someone else’s game, you play by their rules.
“Fact, people will find methods and means to cause harm to others.
Fact, people will go above and beyond any sort of “mental help” to cause harm to others.”
-Mhm, guns don’t kill people. People do.
Do we make these people do what they do? No.
Can we take away their incentive to do these things? No.
So the only thing left to do, is to be prepared and know how to deal with them, and to have what it takes.
“What do we do to CHANGE this?”
-Well that’s a tricky question. And part of the answer was presented in your previous paragraphs. Example:
“They allowed police officers to patrol the campus with their weapon. And you know what? Knowing that those several officers were carrying a weapon made me feel A HELL of a lot safer than if they weren’t.”
-That’s the problem. Safety. Safety and rights rarely go hand in hand. Which do you value more? That’s the decision we all have to face. There is no right or wrong option, but you can’t really have both.
Nobody can ensure your safety, and you cannot always know what dangers are waiting. Safety is little more than a wishful fantasy. But the same thing goes for rights…
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” -Benjamin Franklin
“How many people are willing to fix every broken home?”
-It’s not necessary. Blaming a broken home is a poor excuse. Lots of people grow up in broken homes and don’t end up killing people. Lots of people grow up in normal, “ideal” homes and become murderers and all sorts of destructive sadists.
Circumstances don’t make a man.
And you can’t fix something that hasn’t yet been broken. The “holistic” approach to this problem won’t solve it, because people will always find a reason to do these things. You can find a reason for anything, you can justify anything, you can defend anything, and you can motivate anything. No matter how many incentives you take away, they will just keep coming up with more. And some even argue that this padding and sugarcoating of everything, in itself, is a trigger for this behaviour.
People get bored and restless, eventually mad and furious, when things are too stagnant and orderly.
“Explain to me how YOU would profile someone as sadistic as the above mentioned and below mentioned people. How would YOU defend yourself against someone as such?”
-Profiling rarely helps. It misses more than it hits. And that stirs up a shitload of trouble and suffering. Profiling is a double-edged sword, because it will take suspicion off people who don’t match the stereotypes and prejudice. In the calmest waters lurk the baddest fish, most aggressors are someone close to the victim, someone who appeared nice and normal and whom they trusted. Because they profiled them as sane and safe. Likewise, innocent people get profiled as psychos and criminals, when they’re really not. This is not only vile, but it can also drive antagonize and drive a person batshit. It can create a killer.
“How would YOU defend yourself against someone as such?”
-There is only one way. Stay alert, and strike first. Two eyes for a potential eye.
“how many cases can we find (which there are PLENTY) in which a gun wasn’t a weapon of choice. How many people are hacked to pieces daily by machetes in Africa? How many people have died from chemical warfare? How many people have died by the hands of masochistic practitioners? Which is the Cartel’s favorite means of torture? I can promise you it isn’t a gun.”
-Wisdom. Most violent crimes don’t involve a gun.
Guns don’t kill people, neither do bullets. Guns don’t harm or threaten people, nor do bullets.
Sticks and stones worked back in the day, and they still work just like they always did, tried and true. They work even better on the weak humans of today than it did on the sturdy healthy humans of the olden day.
How about making those illegal haha?
And yknow, what about religion and SOCIETY? Has there ever been anything else that’s brought as much premature death as the civilization you all hold so dearly?
We both know the answer to that one.
If anything should be illegal because it’s dangerous, it’s that shit.
Society, the death machine.
You expect it to protect you from death? You trust them to decrease the killing?
I find that very, very amusing.
It is true that in a perfect society it would not be a problem that people owned guns. But open your eyes! Nobody would WANT a gun in a perfect society. Guns are symbols of death and violence and they have no other use. The only reason that americans want guns is protection – but isn’t that just a signal to the state of the US? That one can’t feel safe without a weapon of death and destruction?!
You can ask any non-american person and they will tell you that gun restriction is the way to go. It is no wonder why schoolshootings mainly occurs is the US.
Whenever I see shootings like this, this is what comes to my mind.
“I am screaming inside. Hear my screams.”
A talk could have stopped all of this. A simple, honest spilling of the heart. If only someone had stopped and taken time to hear the man’s inner screams, he wouldn’t have had to express himself in such a violent way. The shootings was his way of saying,
“I want to be heard. I want the world to hear me scream.”
That’s what saddens me the most about this world. People have grown so far apart.
@alexishungry, Unless you are talking about theft, that is why it all has to co-incide with initiatives on the appropriate storage and security measure that any well trained gun handler should already know. The professional licensed gun handlers in Australia have a theft rate of about 0.06% of all guns stolen in Australia each year. That shows how scary the ammount of unregistered guns are stolen from unlicensed handlers, and that is still a big battle here, as it will be something not solvable over night where you are.
The ammount of guns in the U.S is a phenomenally daunting task, but I think it is worth efforts. A lot of what I have already said in this thread show where I stand. I respect certain freedom as far as guns and I think it is highly unreasonable to expect absolute results with Americas situation.
There are a number of resonable precautions you guys can take. I actually made a suggestion about what I call “Private professional response teams” being posted near or in schools, with a fair setup of cctv systems being an option, these can work with the schools and parents in preparation. Ideas about potential threats, anonymous tips, warning signs etc. This would be a community effort that not only brings a greater vigilance and peace of mind, but it draws the entire community together in a sense of duty and co-operation, providing the strength each of us have to offer.