We do NOT need more gun control
…We just need to start creating a society which no longer supports the endless cycle of dysfunction we have. We are still living with outdated and flawed belief systems that we pass on to next generations, and it isn’t working anymore! We are a consumerism-driven culture which causes a complete shutoff of any curiosity and/or creativity you once had as a child.
DON’T BELIEVE Obama when he comes on TV and says the solution for how to prevent shootings like the one in Connecticut is to impose stricter gun laws and take away peoples’ rights to own them. That is NOT the problem!
Just the other day a man in China stabbed 22 children and an elderly woman outside of a primary school! But I bet you didn’t hear jack shit about that! That’s right! It happened! And here’s a link for you: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248054/China-stabbing-22-children-elderly-woman-stabbed-outside-primary-school-Chinese-knifeman.html
Now, as you can see, the problem is NOT with the weapons. The problem is with us! The world we’ve created! And we’ve got a government that is eager for more control and is more than happy to take advantage of heinous events like this shooting to further their agenda.
DON’T FUCKING FALL FOR IT!
The last thing you need is your government imposing more control over you. If you constantly rely on your government to solve issues, it can only end in less power for you and more control for them.
Instead we need to start bringing it to peoples’ attention that this is a culture disease! And at the same time, the very elite and the very powerful are taking advantage of it and benefiting greatly from it.
The fucked up shit in the world will continue to exist if we don’t change our belief systems.
You are a spiritual being having a human experience. You are NOT your job title, you are not your possessions, you are not your education, your social status, your race, or your religion.
We need to focus on building a society which understands and utilizes the truly important things in people, which is what you create, how much you create, and how much you share it! We have a society which wipes out the wonderful curiosity, creativity, and imagination which all children are born with.
“We think we understand the rules when we become adults, but really we experience a narrowing of our imagination.”
We don’t need to eat at Burger King anymore, or McDonalds. We don’t need to sit on our fat asses and order Dominos Pizza for dinner. We need to put down our high tech phones and go outside for a fucking walk! YOUR HUMAN BODY IS MEANT TO BE EXCERCISED! It is meant to be provided with nutritional, whole foods! We need to stop breeding a society which constantly puts images in our face of candy bars and processed foods. By allowing this, we’re teaching ourselves to eat for pleasure. Eating is not about pleasure, it’s about fueling your body.
Money – it is the root of all evil. It is because of money why we have violence, why we see nonstop wars, and why the few control the many. It is responsible for disease and sickness, obesity, starvation, depression, suicide, I could go on and on.
It is time to seriously rethink the way we’re living. It starts with you. It starts with a new understanding of who you really are at your deepest level. You are one with everything. You ARE everything. Your brain and your body are the means through which consciousness experiences itself. You are not your ego.
It is time for us to change.
Evolve or die.
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The problem is that there is no real way to make sure people follow appropriate safty and security protocols, namely in storage. Some people just put their gun and ammo in a shoebox and put it in the cupboard, all their kids, or disgruntled teens, have to do is be curious, as they do, and they will find it and even try it.
You cannot bust down the doors of every gun owner and check to see if they are locking up their guns right, separating the ammo, etc, standard professional gun owner practices. Another thing is that anyone at any time can get angry for any reason and may lose the self-control and respond impulsively.
But Australia, where I live, has arguably some of the tightest gun laws in the world, here is some info on it. (Note: The area titled “Changes in social problems related to firearms over time” There are some significant statistics there.)
Another thing is massacres in Australia, we had “The Port Arthur Massacre” in 1996, which triggered stringent gun laws. The decades before Port Arthur had a number of massacres, but since there have been none.
I support certain gun freedoms, but I would never argue the results in the Australian method and I believe enthusiasts have ample opportunity to embrace their passion if they are commited enough to it to obey the restrictions. Loving guns means you would be willing to do more to prove that you deserve the privilage. IMO.
I think a lot of people who fight gun restrictions ae either worried they will not qualify under the new law (they are worried to learn they are too nuts) or they like guns but not enough to actually make any effort to prove it. I think it is quite typical that people expect things as a right rather than earn as a privilage. That reminds me of a quote from “Citizen Kane”
How can anyone say guns are unnecessary? If they are available to 1, they should be available to all. If there is even less than 1% chance that someone could break in my house and shoot me, I want to be able to protect myself from that. Also as long as cops, military and government has access to guns so does the public need access to guns for nothing more than to “keep the government in check”.
Also taking guns from law abiding people only makes it possible for criminals to get guns but not someone that doesnt want to break the law. Normal people dont want to go out illegally and obtain guns, but someone crazy enough to kill someone else (not in self defense or defense of others) is resourceful or crazy enough to get them from gun traffickers, gangs etc.
people who blame money for basics human nature is a bloody fool. Do you know how horribly violent the origin of the human race is? PEOPLE PLEASE I urge all who think this way to read some history. before money before civilization. violence is in us and if you disagree you’re just living in a fantasy. for fuck sake we live on a violent planet. animals kill and hunt each other and fight reach other for hunting grounds. but for us its unnatural? riiight completely logical. (not) The only reason people are dumb enough to believe that we aren’t violent by nature is because they are lucky enough to be born into a society where we are so sheltered we don’t look at the outside world realistically. Lucky enough to be absolutely detach from violent world of nature. we just judge it by what we see and what we want it to be and what we think it should be. (its wrong.)
Can we overcome our violence? yes but only as a society.
USA does need gun control. No one needs a fucking automatic weapon in their home. no one needs more than 1-3 guns per owner assuming you go hunting. people don’t need 47 guns in their attic and massive stashes of ammunition. Its bloody ridiculous.
“To ask why we fight is to ask why the leaves fall. It is in their nature. Perhaps, there is a better question.
Why do we fight? To protect Home, and Family… the true question is: What is worth fighting for?”
This is an overview of the effects of strict gun laws in Australia. This cannot really be compared to the U.S.A for the fact of population differences and the law enforcement quality (The U.S has a buttload of weak spots in their law enforcement system as compared to Australia, the U.S have areas that crime is completely overwhelming as far as the police that are provided to work it, in Australia if an area has higher crime we asign more police to crack down on it)
Another thing is you can’t really guess what crimes could have been prevented by gun freedoms, but you can’t guess what crimes would have occured by gun freedoms either. All you can really presume is that more people would have been shot, that is likely true of both criminals being shot by victims and victims being shot by criminals.
Changes in social problems related to firearms over time (Keep in mind that strict laws were put in place after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, no massacres have occured since)
Historically, Australia has had relatively low levels of violent crime. Overall levels of homicide and suicide have remained relatively static for several decades, while the proportion of these crimes that involved firearms has consistently declined since the early 1980s. Between 1991 and 2001, the number of firearm-related deaths in Australia declined 47%.
In the year 2002–2003, over 85% of firearms used to commit murder were unregistered. In 1997–1999, more than 80% of the handguns confiscated were never legally purchased or registered in Australia. Knives are used up to three times as often as firearms in robberies. The majority of firearm-related deaths are suicides, of which many involved the use of hunting rifles.
According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, from 1985–2000, 78% of firearm deaths in Australia were suicides, and firearm suicides have fallen from about 22% of all suicides in 1992 to 7% of all suicides in 2005. Immediately following the Buyback there was a fall in firearm suicides which was more than offset by a 10% increase in total suicides in 1997 and 1998. There were concerted efforts in suicide prevention from this time and in subsequent years the total suicide rate resumed its decline.
The number of guns stolen has fallen dramatically from an average 4,195 per year from 1994 to 2000 to 1,526 in 2006–2007. This is co-incident with a campaign by police and shooting bodies, such as the Sporting Shooters’ Association of Australia’s ‘Secure Your Gun, Secure Your Sport’ drive, to encourage secure storage of rifles and shotguns (handguns were already subject to strict storage requirements). Long guns are more often stolen opportunistically in home burglaries, but few homes have handguns and a substantial proportion of stolen handguns are taken from security firms and other businesses. Only a tiny proportion, 0.06% of licensed firearms, are stolen in a given year. Only a small proportion of those firearms are recovered. Approximately 3% of these stolen weapons are later connected to an actual crime or found in the possession of a person charged with a serious offence.
i believe that there is a failure in culture, but one cultivated by a society which allows each and every citizen the right to destroy the other. and just because some apparently enlightened officials, responsible for their dearest held constitution said so. violence is indeed inherent, but the way in which it is inflicted results from the means. the american’s defence against gun ownership, i think, stems from having had the power of owning one- holding the gun in there hands, and thus feeling the authority and safety that it provides. but this power can be corrupted, and used for malicious ends. the media of course plays a part, but one which cannot be avoided. it has also somehow become a natural sway for someone looking to inflict damage. finally, there is nothing sane or harmonious about owning an automatic rifle. its like having a penis extension that can second as a bomb.
@chodebalm, I agree with everything you are saying.
I do NOT want my government coming in and taking away any more of my rights.
Does anyone not remember Ted Kaczynski? He didn’t use a gun to kill those people, he hand made his bombs at home. In his workshop.
Does anyone remember this?
How about the anthrax attacks?
Why not take away cars? Which are used in many acts of manslaughter, but it’s still okay for these people to drive in them.
Our workshops? Every day appliances that could be turned into a weapon? It’s not just guns, people. It’s anything someone can utilize as a weapon, it’s the people who make these choices.
I survived a school bombing. What was done about that? Nothing. I’ve survived several instances where students had come in with guns, knives, shanks, threatening our student body. Hell, one student DID get fucked up, and fuck, I even talked down a gunman. The solution – they upped school security and started a mandatory bullying/therapy sessions which involved the ENTIRE student body. They cracked down, and we all worked together to make our environment safer for us. They allowed police officers to patrol the campus with their weapon. And you know what? Knowing that those several officers were carrying a weapon made me feel A HELL of a lot safer than if they weren’t.
There’s so much WRONG with the PEOPLE of our world. Where is there a legitimate solution to this?
What do we do to CHANGE this?
“If it wasn’t for sexual inadequacy the National Rifle Association would go broke” – Woody Allen
People outside America find it strange, almost laughable even, about the average American’s love of guns and desire to have one.
People say that we need a gun to protect ourselves a tyranical government; sorry but that is what elections are for, so you can vote in a new group if the current group in power don’t do a good job. Also, if the government really wanted to attack its own civilians, it could proberly kill 90% of people in a few days; the fact that a lot of people have a few handguns would only be incovenient for ‘The Man’ at best.
People go on about protection. If other people didn’t have one, you wouldn’t need one then! This ain’t the Wild West. Americans need to stop their lust over weapons and join other westenized countries in the 21st century.
This is an interesting discussion. But I would like to actually ask something that really wasn’t addressed. I understand that some people have a love of guns and feel threatened by suspicions that the US government will take away their 2nd amendment granted permission to purchase and carry guns. I myself have never been a gun enthusiast and have never fired a gun. The closest thing I’ve gotten to was playing video games where you do fire guns. I think that the bigger the gun on the game, the bigger and more powerful it makes you feel while playing the game. I would like to address the question to those who have fired guns and/or have a love for guns…
How does firing a gun make you feel?
@highideals Mental health issues don’t account for all mass shootings. For example, the August shooting of a Sikh temple was perpetrated by a white supremacist that was associated with a nationwide network of hate groups. The purpose of that shooting was entirely racist in motivation. Would you chalk his racism up to mental health? Or would have this situation been prevented by tighter restrictions on types of guns that really have no purpose other than to kill human beings?
America has mourned 61 mass murders since 1982. The great majority of these mass murders have been perpetrated by white men. The question then becomes, if these mass murders are purely the result of mental illness and our stigma of mental illness of society, then why is it that people of races that have even less access to mental healthcare yet suffer more institutionalized disadvantages are less likely to commit mass shootings. For example, blacks suffer discrimination and disadvantage at a rate that far exceeds whites; they are also shown to have less access to healthcare of any kind, including therapy–but there’s no conclusive evidence that shows they are less likely to suffer from mental disorders yet they are substantially less likely to kill small children in a school shooting. The question then becomes: how is it that a group of people that receives less care of mental illness but suffers from mental illness at the same rate in addition to suffering far greater social disadvantages come out as less likely to commit mass shootings if the controlling variable in mass shootings is untreated mental illness?
The bottom line: blaming mental illness as a major cause of mass shootings is an overly simplistic argument that does not explain the history of mass shootings. It does not explain why white men from well-to-do neighborhoods are more likely to succumb to the impulse to shoot small children when other racial and socioeconomic groups that are less likely to receive psychiatric help are able to contain their desires to kill with far greater success. It does not explain why limiting the ability of these shooters to obtain weapons that can discharge 5 bullets a second is in any way an inadequate step to minimize the body count of future possible shootings. It does not explain why American people need to be able to own types of guns that have no other use than to kill people (not all types of guns are suitable for hunting, after all–many guns are specifically designed to kill people).
@alexa But in your argument for ‘rights,’ you also forget the fact that guns are often used to perpetrate deadly domestic abuse of men against women. Almost all women that are killed by guns are killed by a current or former intimate partner. In addition, it’s notable that all studies regarding the efficiency of guns in self-defense come to similar conclusions: guns make all arguments deadlier instead of safer–that those that get shot are almost always victims and not criminals. This means that there a negligible number of women are able to protect themselves against their aggressors through the use of firearms. If there is a firearm involved in a domestic situation, then the chances are overwhelmingly likely that they will be used against the woman and not the man.
If this is the right we wish to perpetuate, then that’s a pretty awful right to want.
As someone who works hands on with women who have been involved with domestic abuse, I’m not even going to touch upon that. Not because I’m insensitive to the subject, but because I know women who had guns pulled on them, and that had to use them in self defense to ensure their children’s safety from their attacker.
How many of these women would have survived if they were in proximity of a weapon to defend themselves? What are we going to do, talk these violent beings down to sanity? That doesn’t happen, and in my line of work I know for a FACT it doesn’t happen.
Fact, people will find methods and means to cause harm to others.
Fact, people will go above and beyond any sort of “mental help” to cause harm to others.
It’s fact. We learn this in psychology, through medical documents, actual medical practices, then we lock them up and throw away the key because what do we do with them? Albert Fish floated throughout mental wards for years while causing heinous acts of crime unbeknownst to his practicing doctor because he KNEW how to play the cards right.
It’s good to mention that if we diverted our attention away from “petty crimes” and focused on the criminals we keep setting free, the ones who are likely to hurt again, we’d see a drastic drop in crime on the streets. But that’s another argument all in itself. How many people are willing to fix every broken home? None, again, I know this, my line of work involves this type of action. Explain to me how YOU would profile someone as sadistic as the above mentioned and below mentioned people. How would YOU defend yourself against someone as such?
When someone is psychotic enough to plot an act as such in such thorough detail (Ed Gein, Jeff Dahmer, Manson) they WILL strike. History shows this to us repeatedly, and again, what methods can we use?
My point is, no matter how much you think you can “baby proof” people from being violent, a humans psyche can be easily damaged, even if they are RAISED to be “good law abiding” citizens. And putting the entire notion that “guns” are involved in every act of crime, how many cases can we find (which there are PLENTY) in which a gun wasn’t a weapon of choice. How many people are hacked to pieces daily by machetes in Africa? How many people have died from chemical warfare? How many people have died by the hands of masochistic practitioners? Which is the Cartel’s favorite means of torture? I can promise you it isn’t a gun.
I am not defending any of these people. At all. I want everyone to think above and beyond the given situation and what was used in this act of violence. To take into context the amount of people who die at the hands of people who don’t just only use guns. To how MANY evil, twisted, demented people are walking among us, blending into what society accepts as normal behavior thinking beyond the use of guns.
You can’t frame a single object as the cause, if you’re going to do that, take every item that was ever used as a weapon to cause mass slaughter, and explain to me how to solve that.
@theskafish Not a privilege? It IS a privilege.
Is it really the only way to go from A to B? That would mean A and B are both encased inside some sort of building, and the only route between them is a tunnel. Is this really the case?
And do you really HAVE TO go from A to B? Nope that’s a choice. Do you really HAVE TO be somewhere on time? Nope that’s a choice.
The most basic level means surviving, and nothing but surviving. You don’t need a car or a computer or a dollar or a gun for that. All you need is water and something to eat.
And if you don’t like expectations, stop putting your life in the hands of people with expectations. It’s a mutual thing yknow, if you expect things of others, you have no right to complain when they expect things of you. That’s hypocrisy.
Stop blaming other people for your choices. If you don’t like society, either change it or leave it.
“Either act or forget, complaining is silly.” -Stefan Sagmeister
@alexa “I do NOT want my government coming in and taking away any more of my rights.”
-Well, if you live under the government, they decide what rights you have. There really are no birthrights in this world. People can offer you these rights, in exchange for other things, but they can’t really guarantee it anyway. It’s a shitty deal if you ask me.
If you just join in someone else’s game, you play by their rules.
“Fact, people will find methods and means to cause harm to others.
Fact, people will go above and beyond any sort of “mental help” to cause harm to others.”
-Mhm, guns don’t kill people. People do.
Do we make these people do what they do? No.
Can we take away their incentive to do these things? No.
So the only thing left to do, is to be prepared and know how to deal with them, and to have what it takes.
“What do we do to CHANGE this?”
-Well that’s a tricky question. And part of the answer was presented in your previous paragraphs. Example:
“They allowed police officers to patrol the campus with their weapon. And you know what? Knowing that those several officers were carrying a weapon made me feel A HELL of a lot safer than if they weren’t.”
-That’s the problem. Safety. Safety and rights rarely go hand in hand. Which do you value more? That’s the decision we all have to face. There is no right or wrong option, but you can’t really have both.
Nobody can ensure your safety, and you cannot always know what dangers are waiting. Safety is little more than a wishful fantasy. But the same thing goes for rights…
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” -Benjamin Franklin
“How many people are willing to fix every broken home?”
-It’s not necessary. Blaming a broken home is a poor excuse. Lots of people grow up in broken homes and don’t end up killing people. Lots of people grow up in normal, “ideal” homes and become murderers and all sorts of destructive sadists.
Circumstances don’t make a man.
And you can’t fix something that hasn’t yet been broken. The “holistic” approach to this problem won’t solve it, because people will always find a reason to do these things. You can find a reason for anything, you can justify anything, you can defend anything, and you can motivate anything. No matter how many incentives you take away, they will just keep coming up with more. And some even argue that this padding and sugarcoating of everything, in itself, is a trigger for this behaviour.
People get bored and restless, eventually mad and furious, when things are too stagnant and orderly.
“Explain to me how YOU would profile someone as sadistic as the above mentioned and below mentioned people. How would YOU defend yourself against someone as such?”
-Profiling rarely helps. It misses more than it hits. And that stirs up a shitload of trouble and suffering. Profiling is a double-edged sword, because it will take suspicion off people who don’t match the stereotypes and prejudice. In the calmest waters lurk the baddest fish, most aggressors are someone close to the victim, someone who appeared nice and normal and whom they trusted. Because they profiled them as sane and safe. Likewise, innocent people get profiled as psychos and criminals, when they’re really not. This is not only vile, but it can also drive antagonize and drive a person batshit. It can create a killer.
“How would YOU defend yourself against someone as such?”
-There is only one way. Stay alert, and strike first. Two eyes for a potential eye.
“how many cases can we find (which there are PLENTY) in which a gun wasn’t a weapon of choice. How many people are hacked to pieces daily by machetes in Africa? How many people have died from chemical warfare? How many people have died by the hands of masochistic practitioners? Which is the Cartel’s favorite means of torture? I can promise you it isn’t a gun.”
-Wisdom. Most violent crimes don’t involve a gun.
Guns don’t kill people, neither do bullets. Guns don’t harm or threaten people, nor do bullets.
Sticks and stones worked back in the day, and they still work just like they always did, tried and true. They work even better on the weak humans of today than it did on the sturdy healthy humans of the olden day.
How about making those illegal haha?
And yknow, what about religion and SOCIETY? Has there ever been anything else that’s brought as much premature death as the civilization you all hold so dearly?
We both know the answer to that one.
If anything should be illegal because it’s dangerous, it’s that shit.
Society, the death machine.
You expect it to protect you from death? You trust them to decrease the killing?
I find that very, very amusing.
@theskafish, Well if you can’t afford a gun you are screwed either way.
What I mean by cars are a privilege, is that you do not have the right to drive a car, you have to prove you are capable and responsible enough to drive a car. Why should the same not apply to a gun, which is a much more dangerous tool in the wrong hands. Why is there a need to have a gun? Not Protection. America is proof that lenient gun laws cost more lives than they saves.
I’m not saying guns should be banned altogether (though this is what I would like to see) but that to obtain one you would have to go through the proper channels and prove you are a capable and responsible gun owner. I also believe there should be a change in the types of guns available, for instance; shotguns, certain pistols, hunting and bolt action rifles Good(sorta), Automatic and semi automatic handguns and rifles, explosives, machine guns, Bad. If it is illegal for just anybody to get into a car and drive around, why should the same not apply to guns?
@chodebalm, Although I am in favor of fewer government regulations, gun control is an area where we definitely need to increase regulation. The argument that increased gun control violates the 2nd amendment is complete bullshit; I wholly support your right to carry a musket or a similar single shot rifle, which I believe our forefathers intended. Assault rifles or any semi-automatic weapon have absolutely no place in the civilian realm. If someone legitimately wants to purchase a gun, why wouldn’t they be willing to wait an extra amount of time or take extra gun safety classes?! – especially knowing that, although it might be a minor inconvenience to them, the extra precautions may keep somebody from being murdered. As to your need of having a gun for personal safety – numerous studies show that owning a gun decreases your safety.
“After adjustment, individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P < .05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession. Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist, this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45 (P < .05)."
I would urge you to read this article: http://skeptikai.com/2012/07/30/does-owning-a-gun-increase-or-decrease-safety-science-answers/
Guns don't kill people; people kill people. So lets keep absurdly overpowered guns out of the hands of people.
I live in one of the roughest areas in Australia, full of drug addicts and scum who would rob you blind if you give them the chance. But I can walk my streets without a fear in the world (except for tiny dogs), you know why? Because thieves and drug addicts are cowards, they don’t want to get caught and they don’t want to be hurt.
Americans predominantly want guns because when they step outside, any asshole may have a gun, a thief or a drug addict grows brass balls with a gun in his hand. A gun shoved in your face makes you cough up you goodies quick smart, no struggle, no wasting time.
What does we are everything mean? You are your consciousness. Which is made up of the id and the ego. How can you be everything. You are you, and everything is everything. But if I am everything, I’m going into work tomorrow to jizz all over the face of that really hot girl. Because I’m doing it to myself, and I’m okay with it so it’s fine XD. No I’m not, I’m not a sex pest. You can be at peace with everything and not want to judge people, but they are just the actions and mindset of an individual. You are responsible for your own actions.
@chodebalm, This is a fantastic model for self improvement. We can’t wait for others to impose restrictions on us to tell us how we must live. We must control ourselves.
However, we must remember that for many people either have no interest in self-improvement, don’t give it their best shot, or don’t even realize they need it. It will take the end of humanity as we know it to see the change you’re hoping for. It’s sad, but I truly believe it will take really, REALLY bad conditions for the citizens of the world to realize that for the most part, they aren’t living as they should.
Gun control isn’t about individual lifestyles, like bans on drug use, gay marriage, and immigration. It’s about the safety of others. We can’t afford to trust others to work out their own mental issues and obsessions with violence. It just won’t happen. In this case, we need control. If we’re talking about my freedom to own a machine that fires metal at hundreds of feet per second designed to take the lives of other humans, please take it away. I don’t want it.
Now that being said, we’ve gone too far. In a nation with more guns than adults, gun control will only be successful if we undergo unprecedented breaches of privacy while the government searches all properties and confiscates weapons. Even then, they won’t find them all. So for this problem as it stands today, gun control may help a little, but it isn’t the solution. However, standing by and trusting others to change themselves sure as hell isn’t going to do us much good either.
You don’t have to worry about all guns, that will not happen. Australia was lucky that we could do the Buyback scheme, but America has too many guns and not enough money to do that. But all guns are not the issue, you have to only clamp down on the military style weapons. Guns with high rates of fire, high calibre and easily reloadable.
Guns I would not worry about are typical hunting rifles, shotguns and low calibre revolvers. Any semi or fully automatic capable weapons are a problem. Pistols are a bit of a worry only because they are magazine reloadable, this makes them more efficient, higher calibre revolvers and pistols are also a worry, but all those can just wait.
You need to focus on these assault rifles, machine guns and SMG’s.