i was just watching the movie “Season Of the Witch” on netflix and i had an epiphany. what was the church even fighting? Back then the church has us fighting imaginary enemies. and convincing us that these “enemies” were inside of people. they led us to wherever there was a conflict of interests, i.e the ottomans, Africans, Americas. this organization was brainwashing us all and they were the only people that knew the reality of it all. They outlawed science because it was the only foil to their plan, that men weren’t fighting anything at all, they were just pawns in their overal plan to keep the human race in shackles, sometimes literally in the case of the slaves. and the only people that have escaped this reality are scientists and theorists. the universe is made up from an unknown origin, and origin in the case that it is a miraculous happenstance that we even exist. the world is how we see it. if ur raised to see nothing is there, then nothing is there, but if ur raised that demons are all around you, unseen, they will believe that. They were just controlling us. i don’t mean to sound anti beliefs, but in all logical meaning of religion just cant exist. it doesn’t make any sense. and if it does, these people are only another species of people from a different planet. it isn’t a divine intervention, its an otherworldly intervention. the curch was just afriad and it was all the peole. and the aliens were attacking us and they were protecting. sorry to go on a tangent but, what are your views in this? does it exist, or doesn’t it/
Religion back then (and now, at times) reminds me of our current political system.
Smart men (or maybe not so) can easily conquer over people with the right tools. They’ll trigger fear in your hearts and abuse it as long as your logic will allow.
It’s a lot like having guns. Guns can be seriously useful or can show the barbarism we are capable of possessing.
Religion isn’t bad. It’s just the people who try to run it.
I agree with you on your point about religion being like a gun. I think at it’s core, religion is good and teaches many values about living life and, in general, being a person. Although many people argue that religion does more bad than good, the question really needs to be more specific: religious people do more bad than good, not the religion itself.
To address the general statement, Does religion exist? my answer is yes, it absolutely exists. If it didn’t, would its effect have been this massive?
@xdiodude7x, religion with an agenda really isn’t religion as I choose to define it. People who try to compartmentalize something as unanimous as what real religions claim to share are only harming sheep, for they are wolves with their words.
@xdiodude7x, I think religion exists in the sense that it is a social construct. Religion exists as a non-material creation of humans, but that is about it. You cannot touch religion, you cannot see it, you cannot taste it. Regardless of its physical reality, for better or worse it is an important force.
The time is ripe for an explosion of consciousness. It has never been so ripe, because life is evolving and we are coming to a climax. If we don’t attain to a radical transformation, then this same state of evolved humanity will become a strain on us. Man is no more a child, and he if continues to wear the same clothes which were made for children he is bound to be in difficulty. He will remain unnecessarily crippled for the simple reason that the clothes are small and he has become big. Christianity, Hinduism, Jainism, Mohammedanism, these are all clothes made for another state of humanity when man was more childish. Now they don’t fit, they are utterly out of date. These clothes were right for a certain time. Now they are not right at all. The time is right to change all clothes, the time is ripe to change the whole man. A total overhaul is needed.
The problem isn’t religion, the problem is mixing religion and politics. I can’t really think of a surviving religion that preaches exclusively about hatred and discrimination. For all the passages in the Koran that say “Kill the infidel”, there at least two that say “All humans are made equal”. But when you mix politics with this mentality, that’s were the us-versus-them problems start to arise.
@xdiodude7x, you bring up the idea of what the church was fighting in things like the crusades and witch burnnings. Well, the Church in a religious aspect wasn’t doing anything. The Church in a political aspect was asserting it’s dominance. That’s the way I see it anyway.
All doctrine is a product of the mind, and the esoteric leap beyond the mind leaves all philosophies far behind. Therefore, if you create a new religion it should be with the common man in mind. Religion should be life affirming and value honesty, family, democracy, and reasonable nonviolent behavior. Organized religion is useful to elevate the masses to the point where superconsciousness begins. That point is beyond the mind and beyond any organization, scriptures, rules, or teaching.
@lytning91, I also prefer to have my own definition of religion, which is very perennial philosophical in nature. To me, whenever I see people using religion as a means to create divisions (initially in their mind, which is then reflected in their actions), restrict liberty, or impose on or control another (including children, which is commonplace), I consider that irreligion, irrespective of the outer form that that happens to take, or the justification for such behaviour that’s presented.
I grew up in a Sikh family, but as with most religious traditions, particulars and empty, hollow customs have come to supercede the spiritual message. As an example, one of the basic tenets of Sikhism is the equality of all human beings. But when I talk to most ‘Sikhs,’ of course, their beliefs and prejudices rarely reflect that, so caught up are they in ‘their’ identity and whichever God club they happen to be part of. It’s largely just egoic pride.
@tigerturban, I agree that it’s beyond the mind, and too oft the labels and particulars get in the way of the essence. This kinda relates:
But this kinda division between the scholars and the mystics is present in heart of every Abrahamic religion as well. And the masses can be brought into line in short order by those who would use such spiritual messages for their own political ends, as mentioned above. Hey, that Jesus guy seems fairly popular, perhaps we should package a few of his ideas and brand it as a religion. And so forth. I like how Huxley, in his wonderful novel Island (highly recommended read for any dreamer), referred to the present day Christianity as “dilute Christianity,” (no one can serve two masters, yet mass consumerism/materialism and fundamentalist religious conviction are common bedfellows in these times). Although in truth, much of it is quite dilute. Many people are far more concerned with keeping up appearances and their reputations than their character.
Ditto in Islam, the distinction between Sufism and the orthodoxy, etc. One is largely love based and universal in it’s message (or common practice, at least), whereas those who want to maintain any sort of control over the masses would be wise to ensure that they live in fear, guilt, feel that they are sinners/meatbags, etc.
When I look out at the world, the only ‘division’ that I see is between those that exist in fear, and those that live in love. The empathetic and the psychopathic. The created and the creators.
Crap, that sounded like a rant. Lemme finish by saying that I’m damn optimistic about where we’re headed.
The problem with Religion is that they only have half of the truth and they tried to convince the people that they have the whole picture. Like the Krishnamurti Joke, the devils is not worry that a man have half of the truth because they will make a religion of it that will destroy more people than help. You can be religious like Osho use to said by seen God in everything everywhere. Religion preach that it can save you but when you understand that is not need to be save that everything is just this instant and what you do about it does not matter if Religion is fake or real because you are far beyond of the concept and it duality.
@mohawkave, To me, whenever I see people using religion as a means to create divisions (initially in their mind, which is then reflected in their actions), restrict liberty, or impose on or control another (including children, which is commonplace), I consider that irreligion, irrespective of the outer form that that happens to take, or the justification for such behaviour that’s presented.
All of that is exactly correct.
Truth is your own experience, your own vision. Even if I have seen the truth and I tell you, the moment I tell you it will become a lie for you, not a truth. For me it was truth, for me it came through the eyes. It was my vision. For you, i…t will not be your vision, it will be a borrowed thing. It will be a belief, it will be knowledge–not knowing. And if you start believing in it, you will be believing a lie.
“To understand the misery and confusion that exist within ourselves, and so in the world, we must first find clarity within ourselves, and that clarity comes about through right thinking.
This clarity is not to be organized, for it cannot be exchanged with another. Organized group thought is merely repetitive. Clarity is not the result of verbal assertion, but of intense self-awareness and right thinking. Right thinking is not the outcome of or mere cultivation of the intellect, nor is it conformity to pattern, however worthy and noble. Right thinking comes with self-knowledge. Without understanding yourself, you have no basis for thought; without self-knowledge, what you think is not true.”
@naturopath, Most of the world’s great religions started as campfire religions. The initial spark of the religion may have come from a remarkable human being having an insight or a vision, but much of the dogma and tradition was formed by ordinary disciples long after the founding teacher’s death. Many religious myths, which strict fundamentalists accept as fact, were created by disciples gathered around a fire at night and telling stories about the glory days of their long dead spiritual heroes.
Imagine the world before the printing press and electricity. In ancient times nights were long, dark, and potentially very scary, with no television or radio for entertainment. Huddled around a fire at night, story tellers would gain recognition by fabricating heroic tales of perfect saintly beings in order to entertain and comfort. Over the centuries religious myths became wildly grandiose and fact was lost in a sea of invention.
Religion is real. You can see, hear, feel, taste, and smell religion. It seems fake because people who have devoted their whole life to it make their religion’s super natural leader out to be something that can also be sensed in the real world…when it most definitely cannot be. In my opinion religion is nothing more than an abstract philosophy of positive morals that have been passed down for thousands of years.
Religion is a way to make sense of the world–that is something that is fairly innocent. But people end up using it to control other people. Since most religions are fear-based (you’ll go to hell if you do this/don’t do that), and since people are susceptible to this, they go along with it.