Would you kill someone in defense of yourself and/or someone else?
If you had a gun and someone charged you with a knife, would you kill them? Likewise, if they were attacking someone else, would you kill them in that scenario? Really basic examples, but in any case, would you do it? I would. I’d probably feel bad about it after the fact, but I know I’d pull the trigger without hesitation.
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Survival is the most basic instinct. Something threatens your life its fight or flight. You either stand your ground or you run. Either is risky, you stand your ground and its too late because they have the upper hand or you run and they catch you and have you from behind which is a very vulnerable spot. No one can be a 100% sure what they will do until they are actually in the situation, but answering the question if it came down to me or them it will always be me, same goes for protecting my loved ones.
If someone else is attacking me, they are taking away my power of choice whether or not to fight back by any means necessary….if I want to live, I have to respond with superior force than I’m being threatened with. Also, if someone else is attacking me, then they are voiding the natural social contract between me and them to treat them with mutual respect, they are willfully choosing to throw that away and I no longer owe them anything. Same with another person being victimized, it just isn’t right to stand there while someone else is being attacked. Having never shot a gun in my life, I don’t know how I’d handle the situation, but if I had, I don’t think I’d worry about aiming…..just about getting myself out of the situation intact. Nor would I feel bad afterwards….this is someone who is trying to make a victim of me. Not gonna happen without a fight.
“This is not a scenario where you have time to ponder what type of confrontation it is, all that you know is someone is coming at you with a weapon and you have a choice, allow the fear of the situation to immobilize you and die, or embrace the fear and act. ”
Ofcourse not. Thinking about the specifics of circumstance are relatively useless in such a situation, I was just offering perspective that people might reflect on for future reference. I am not advocating the passive approach, I am advocating…the surgical approach.
“And I could just be reading what you wrote wrong, are you suggesting that in the parameters of the scenario, you would not act in a way that ensures your survival, even if that meant killing them?”
I can’t say. In such a scenario I suspect neither person is getting off unscathed if, for whatever reason, he is willing to risk his life for mine. When a man is willing to die, you lose a lot of leverage in a situation and it’s usually best to disappear…but that’s not really an answer. I don’t have qualms about hurting someone, I just don’t want to do it because I lost control.
“Have you been in a life/death scenario before? I haven’t,”
I have difficulty recognizing life or death scenarios. I’ve been held at knife point and known I was relatively safe, yet been chased out of a bar by a fat man I knew would flatten me to death if he caught me…sense of propriety for circumstance is lacking I fear.
“but I’ve spoken to several who have, soldiers, cops, friends who have been in fights, and in those moments you either act or die/get pummeled. I would not kill the person out of fear, I would kill them out of protection, protection from a reality they are forcing on me.”
Like I said, it’s not a matter of lethality that I am against, it’s the excuses behind using it that I find repulsive. If someone dies because you defended yourself, that’s regrettable. If you choose to kill someone because they threatened you, that’s retarded.
This world is infested with too many people. Given the assurance of escape from the folly of our society’s blind morality, any true, strong Man OUGHT to shoot. The human race has gotten out of control; it must be, honestly, restored to a suitable size. The most logical way to contribute is thus to take out the weakest-minded, most imperfect forms of humanity – starting with the given of one coming right at you, made to choose between logic or emotion.
This is a very simple, very general question. If I had the gun, and someone was coming at me with a knife, I’d shoot them in the knee and restrain the offender. If I had the knife, and was going after someone with a gun, I’d have to be a little more strategic than running DIRECTLY towards the attacker.
If I was caught up in something that involved me having to kill someone for the protection of my self and the safety of others, yes I’d do it without a second thought.
If someone came into my house and attacked my family, yes I would have no problem killing them.
What’s important is that you have an idea of self defense, and you do whatever you can to cripple and disarm the person attacking you before you opt to take their lives.
But if you want my god honest opinion, yes, I would.
I don’t know about these specific scenarios, I am pretty handy in confrontations and a gun gives you a lot of leverage in negotiations, but I would kill a person in certain circumstances. If someone was on a killing spree, or about to engage in one, I would kill them without a second thought. I have ways of understanding cause and effect, a psychopath to me is not a person to hate because it is a matter of understanding the illness, but this is not to say a psychopath should not be stopped, they should be, innocent people should be protected from those who mean them harm.
But it is not always black and white, one victim may deserve stopping in themselves and to stop the one about to do that would be an error on your part. So the issue becomes so much more complicated when you do not know what has transpired to motivate such situations.
Digression rules everything. If death occurs to the person threatening other’s. I don’t believe there would any emotional distress. Getting my throat slit or stabbed by a full on kitchen/ buck knife, whatever, is one most unimaginable events i can willingly conjure. If your life and others’ are in danger, I would wound before making a kill shot. I’ve never killed anyone, and if possible would keep it that way.
I would kill to protect myself–that’s instinct. I don’t think I couldn’t not kill to stay alive. Especially if someone was coming right at me with a knife.
Would I kill to defend someone else? Well, that’s a lot more complicated. And just considering the fact that I’m not sure, I’d have to say no, I wouldn’t. Now, if I was defending a loved one, yes, no question. I love them, lol. But if one stranger is attacking another stranger, I don’t know the whole story. So who I am to intervene in such an extreme way?
(Sure, I may not know the whole story with a loved one, either, but I rather kill blindly than let someone I care about die.)
@mercurial, I was talking to my friend a few hours ago. Her neighbor is making her really uncomfortable, namely he fixed her door, then cornered her and starting telling her how beautiful she is and she had to force him out of the way. She lives in an apartment alone. I told her to call the cops and ask for a patrol car to hang out in the parking lot. I also told her that if she has these problems when I’m in town I’ll sleep on her couch with a shotgun. I wanted to see how people here felt about self defense.
@mimic, Against a knife-wielding enemy, you’d use a paintball gun? Well assuming its the 10 year old with a razor, that seems reasonable. It would probably cause most anyone to rethink their decision. But what if they kept coming?
Self defense is one option of self preservation. If someone broke into my house and started up a chainsaw and I had a metal door, I’d hide in that room. Otherwise, my only option is to shoot.
The way I took the scenario was, “It’s either he chases you down and stabs you to death or you kill him” so know I am responding to this perception when I say, in a scenario such as this the last thing I’d want to do is freeze, panic or run. I absolutely agree, easier said than done, but I know I’ll fight the fear to enable action, how much action of course dictated by how much I can fight it
@mimic, Fear and self defense are two separate issues. If I’m walking through town late at night and someone is following me in a hoodie with both hands in their pockets and makes every turn I do and I turn and shoot, that would constitute acting on fear. But I wouldnt shoot until a definitive threat on my life has been made. On the other hand, if someone breaks into a residence knowing full well that someone is there, they arent too worried about confrontation and I plan on shooting before they get the chance. Fear insinuates confusion and loss of reasoning.
@alexa, If you’re ever in that situation, dont shoot the knee. Its a small target, and an immobile threat is still a threat. Stop your target from doing whatever ill intended thing he/she was doing.
@theskafish, Exactly. If someone attempts to endanger me or someone else, they have lost all rights to me not killing them.
The way I see it, my violence is a tool, its there whether I want it to be or not, therefore it becomes an issue of how to task it. I have an innate desire to kill, probably because I’m partly sociopathic, and for years I have battled with my desire to go over the deep end, in love with the darkness and the only reason why I didn’t was because I couldn’t rationalize hurting innocent people, I needed a motivation, a reason. So I began pondering on this and through this thought I was able to understand the ‘choice’ element, the anger that causes violence is a ‘tool’ and the way I want to use this tool is to defend the innocent, this way, there is always a legitimate reason.
So to answer your question, without remorse would be my response. If someone comes at me with the intent of harming me or my own, the darkness that lays dormant inside me will be called out, and whatever that manifests into is what they get to deal with. They’ve opened the door to that, whatever they get after that is a consequence.
@bongodeburrito, it doesn’t sound to me like your friends life is in danger. She made it out of the situation unharmed. Maybe she should consider moving? That sounds like a much easier solution than having you kill someone.
I see what you are saying and I agree.
” … I am advocating…the surgical approach…. I don’t have qualms about hurting someone, I just don’t want to do it because I lost control.”
Is what I was interested in, I appreciate your candor.
@mercurial, We’re friends with a mutual affection that doesnt work out due to distance, but that’s irrelevant. I’d do it for anyone if they had a threat they couldnt easily defend themselves from. And mace and tasers are expensive. I can get shotgun rounds for pennies on the dollar. And if you’ve forcefully entered a residence that is not your own, you have forfeited your right to live, in my book and the local law.
@jpixi, To quote Mike, who explained it better than I already had:
“For anyone who has any type of gun training, especially military, you know that when lives are at stake, and your adrenaline is flowing, your fine motor functions are gone and you rely on instinct and whatever training you may have. So to anybody who thinks that they’re going to just be able to plant one in the attacker’s knee while they’re running at you, or maybe shoot at their feet and make em dance like in an old western movie, you’re fooling yourself. Or you can just spray and pray, but then you end up with a situation like at the Empire State Building, those were trained police officers and when that guy pulled his gun they unloaded and 8 bystanders got injured.”
@bongodeburrito, These type of scenarios are why part of why I want to train in Krav Maga or anything that would allow me to use nothing more than hands and feet to disable the attacker, and if I kill him.. well he was trying to kill me so that sounds like his bad to me. I do own a gun, it’s mostly to shoot for fun, but if I had to use it, I certainly would. (aka my life or one of the people I consider family’s life is in immediate danger)
@bongodeburrito, the trouble is, let’s suppose this happens – someone attacks me (in either a public or private location), I fight back, they wind up dead or grievously injured, but they were still the instigator, the source of the problem. Nothing violent would have happened if they weren’t the ones to initiate it. I was acting in self-defense, but can I now be arrested instead?
In real life, a few years ago a couple friends and I were playing tennis in a park, and a bunch of drunk kids tried to jump us (I know, not as extreme as the original post but still a self-defense issue). I wanted to stand and fight them with a bat since they had no right to attack us, but my friends said that even if I fought in self-defense they would wind up winning the case even though they were the ones threatening us for no reason. I’ve been confused on this ever since.
“Have one of your friends “assault” you with a felt marker without the cap and attempt to disarm them. If you wind up with two or more felt marks on your body/clothing, odds are you’re severely incapacitated”
Odds are I’ll shoot them with my hypothetical paintball gun and invalidate this scenario.
“And then lets imagine its someone on an adrenaline rush, or meth, or crack, or that’s got 50 pounds on you, or whatever.”
Adrenaline, meth, crack, makes no difference how you justify it. What about a 10 year old girl who cuts you with a razor because she felt like it? Whose more dangerous?
“I’m going to preserve my life, because my life doesnt involve the attempt to take people’s lives.”
Aren’t you trying to explain why you could intentionally take someone elses’ life? Maybe I’m taking this too literally, my point is manslaughter is stupid and clumsy and in 99% of cases happens because someone didn’t behave rationally.
@mimic, “Like I said, it’s not a matter of lethality that I am against, it’s the excuses behind using it that I find repulsive. If someone dies because you defended yourself, that’s regrettable. If you choose to kill someone because they threatened you, that’s retarded.”
So in the scenario I presented, someone attempting to attack you with a knife, which is an immediate threat to your life, it would be retarded to kill them? I dont understand where you’re coming from. What would you consider defending yourself?