Jordan Bates 3 min read

Euvie Ivanova and Mike Gilliland on Shadow Work, No Self, and Sovereignty (HEx Podcast #30)

Consciousness & Meditation Philosophy Psychology & Happiness

Euvie Ivanova and Mike Gilliland on Shadow Work, No Self, and Sovereignty (HEx Podcast #30)
“I think the experience of being God is probably quite similar to that state of ‘no self’—just observation without identity. And again, through DMT that experience has been, like, neon lights [confirming], “Yes, that’s true.””

— Mike Gilliland

Mike Gilliland and Euvie Ivanova sort of remind me of a Sagacious Power Couple from another dimension.

Their Future Thinkers Podcast—focused on evolving technology, society, and consciousness—has garnered 3.5 million downloads since its genesis in 2014.

They’ve interviewed Titans of Insight such as Daniel Schmachtenberger, Ken Wilber, Jordan Peterson, Charles Eisenstein, Jordan Hall, and Nora Bateson.

future thinkers mike gilliland euvie ivanova jordan bates

They’ve spent years traveling the world, earning a living as digital nomads, and have spoken at myriad events on multiple continents.

I was fortunate to befriend Mike and Euvie some years ago and first met them while traveling in Bulgaria.

From our original meeting, I’ve been impressed by their humility, groundedness, centeredness, penetrating insight, and no-nonsense approach to life and spirituality.

I think of them as two of the most actualized humans I’ve had the honor to know in this lifetime.

As such, I was supremely delighted to have the opportunity to interview them for the HighExistence Podcast.

Naturally, I wanted to ask them about all the juiciest stuff:



No Self…

The human shadow…

The future of Earth…

Their relationship…

Their impending parenthood…

And their most profound transformational experiences…

So I did, and we traversed some truly rich and expansive territory.

Without further ado, let’s dive in. I hope you enjoy this Kaleidoscopic Journey as much as I did.



(Please remember to leave a review, this does much more than you think!)

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plant medicine


“This is how I define “God”: So there’s the conscious mind, right, stuff that we’re aware of both internally and externally. Stuff that we’ve mapped out in the world like scientific paradigms that we think describe reality pretty well. And also the thoughts and feelings and whatever that we’re aware of inside of ourselves. Then, if you visualize outside of that, there’s another layer, and that’s something that can be called the ‘dream realm’: So that’s the unconscious; that’s the stuff that you kind of, sort of can be conscious of in certain states, but not all the time, and you don’t really understand it, and it’s kind of fuzzy and weird, but it’s definitely something. And then same thing with science: There are things that are at the edges that we don’t quite understand; sometimes the experiment comes out one way, sometimes it comes out another way, we don’t really know what the truth is, but there’s something happening; we just can’t quite figure it out. So, you know, dream realm.

And then outside of that is the unknown: Stuff that we just don’t understand; things keep coming out of it, and we don’t know how they got there; or things keep going into it, like with the Large Hadron Collider—like, where do these particles go? Into the unknown. And in certain wisdom traditions it’s called the void. So we suspect that there’s something out there because things keep going out into it and coming from it and emerging into our awareness; but we just can’t perceive the thing itself. So there’s something very, very big, but we just don’t understand it; that’s the unknown; that’s the void; I would say that God is all of those things combined. So the known, the dream realm, and the unknown. So basically everything and nothing, because we don’t know what’s in the void, so there could just be nothing. But it has to be included in order for the thing to be as big as it can. So that would be my definition of ‘God.'”

— Euvie Ivanova


Jordan Bates

Jordan Bates

Jordan Bates is a lover of God, father, leadership coach, heart healer, writer, artist, and long-time co-creator of HighExistence. —

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